Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.14]

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12]

Post by skeptical_troll » April 12th, 2017, 8:46 am

taptap wrote:The dragonspear wielder and two L4 with damage output and slow, two batal and one tineen seems a balanced choice for me.
Yeah, I think high-damage marksman is also useful to make sure you don't get bogged down. Not sure if having all 6-MP would make such a big difference, at least if you want to save Raahil who has also 5MP.
Spoiler:

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12]

Post by ForestDragon » April 12th, 2017, 2:12 pm

bugreport: the music dependency's name is spelled incorrectly. fix this.
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Creator of Tale of Alan (1.12 abandoned),The Golden Age (1.12/1.13, abandoned),XP Bank (1.14),Alliances Mod(1.12, unplayable), with a large add-on in development
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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12]

Post by skeptical_troll » April 12th, 2017, 3:19 pm

ForestDragon wrote:bugreport: the music dependency's name is spelled incorrectly. fix this.
Done, many thanks!

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12]

Post by taptap » April 12th, 2017, 9:36 pm

Spoiler:
Academy: Why is it shrouded? It is literally the home town of Khafir and Co. - they even have current academy soldiers among them. The shroud adds a lot of difficulty, but only in the first play w/o good story reason for the shroud - given my slow army w/ 4-6 speed (and the need I felt to keep forces united). And one leaderless side and both forces on different ends of the map. There is no carryover information given.
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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12]

Post by skeptical_troll » April 12th, 2017, 10:55 pm

taptap wrote:Academy: Why is it shrouded? It is literally the home town of Khafir and Co. - they even have current academy soldiers among them. The shroud adds a lot of difficulty, but only in the first play w/o good story reason for the shroud - given my slow army w/ 4-6 speed (and the need I felt to keep forces united). And one leaderless side and both forces on different ends of the map. There is no carryover information given.
Hmm... I initially considered that it was more interesting to conceal what was happening in the southern part of the map at the beginning, but on second thought I think you are right, I will just remove the shroud.
Spoiler:

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12]

Post by taptap » April 13th, 2017, 9:13 pm

Academy: Added a replay. (Played with some map knowledge.) Not sure about the right strategy on the top half.

Assault at the border: This scenario is lovely to play, taking full advantage of the desert at last. The carryover implications of earlier decisions are hard to understand though. E.g. I picked more militia units, a better dwarf etc. counting on the upkeep of the villages on the southern map. But both gold and villages vanished once I left the map. Turning what was a somewhat balanced upkeep situation into a bankruptcy. (Just using more loyals in the south would have made a huge difference.) In the end finished with only 75 bonus, which may not be enough for the final. The campaign has the luxury problem at this point, that you need to play with your loyals for gold, but really want to play with the very powerful militia. Statistics remain split between the temporary faction and your main group as well.
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RftA-Assault_at_the_Border_replay.gz
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RftA-The_Academy_replay.gz
The fight for the academy and the loss of the dragon spear.
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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12]

Post by skeptical_troll » April 15th, 2017, 12:23 am

For some reason the replay of 'Assault at the border' is messed up starting at turn ~21-22. After that, some units freeze and I don't understand what's going on. I'm not sure if this is because of the funny things I'm doing with the sides (like there is no side 1 at that point), or what else is corrupting the replay file.

Concerning the upkeep, I thought that adding the gold bonus per leader killed would compensate the problem you point out, but probably that's not the case. I'm afraid that 75 bonus is definitely not enough for the last scenario (although it might still be possible) :hmm:
This scenario was definitely thought to make use of the militiamen and of the cavalry units, which didn't find much employment so far. I can probably keep things simple and don't switch side for units moved to the other part of the map (although it's not really what I wanted from the interface point of view), or switch the villages of the southern part to side 3 when Khafir is moved north.

EDIT: uploaded a new version of this scenario. Now side 1 units will not change side till the very end so they shouldn't break the upkeep. I reduced a bit the gold bonus from the killed leader, but I fixed a bug for which one out of three bonuses wasn't triggered if a leader was the last enemy killed.

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12]

Post by Otdoy » April 23rd, 2017, 6:58 pm

Longtime lurker here. Registered just to say how FABULOUS this campaign was. Epic storyline, desperate battles, varied objectives - wow, everything you'd want and more! Thank you so much for the hard work, troll, and for the many hours of entertainment.
Spoiler:
Did I mention how satisfactory the ending was? :)
Can we hope to someday hear another story, of some other outskirt of Othrondor's kingdom? :)
Thanks again,
Arian

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12]

Post by skeptical_troll » April 24th, 2017, 9:59 pm

Hi Otdoy, thanks for the nice words, I'm glad that you enjoyed the campaign! :)
Otdoy wrote:Can we hope to someday hear another story, of some other outskirt of Othrondor's kingdom?
Some sort of sequel (focused on Othrondor) was planned since the beginning, and I've been writing down something, but I'm afraid I have less time than I wish to spend on it, so I don't know when/if it will ever see the light. :hmm:
Spoiler:

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12]

Post by Otdoy » April 25th, 2017, 8:45 pm

Ever since I started playing BfW, I've felt a desire, no let's say more... an obligation, to give back in some way. But life is full of projects... so who knows.

I admire you for having taken the time to so fully complete the process. Your first campaign Hunters was good, but this one is the Big Enchilada. In my book it ranks up there with top BfW experiences, like Faerie Tale. Thanks again and best of luck.

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12]

Post by Inky » May 10th, 2017, 6:21 am

I finally got around to playing a few more scenarios!

In Road to Ugraba, the defeat condition "more than two companions die" doesn't show up in the objectives (maybe it should be "any companion dies" since the sewer scenario is already difficult enough with all the units).

Sewers: As others mentioned I think it's too difficult on a first attempt, so I'm glad to see that it's going to be made easier :) One thing I would comment on is the big clump of cave terrain near the bridges to the final eastern chamber - it would be very difficult / impossible to get certain units (especially mounted units) through this section without the cave agility ring, maybe there could be some more flat terrain here.
p.s. the dialogue at the end was hilarious!! Especially the descriptive labels for the mysterious voices :D

And I agree with what Otdoy wrote, this campaign is just awesome! 8)
Replay summaries
Forest of crossing paths: 80 starting gold (minimum). Spent most of the turns just camping in the fort slowly picking off enemies. Lost several high level veterans but leveled some new ones (including the peasant to royal guard! Too bad he doesn't get much use later), also I managed to level several of the allied units to level 3 but they all ended up getting cannon foddered :oops: The hero of the scenario was the allied duelist who basically got rid of the wolves by himself (though he died valiantly in the process). The goblins weren't much help though, they kind of just died instantly :whistle:

Familiar landscapes: 358 starting gold. Went north through the mountains, the ogres weren't much trouble but having to fight the high level orcs/trolls right after was pretty tough without healing. The second half of the scenario on the sandy terrain was a nice and easy slaughter of orcs though :twisted:

Sewers of Uqraba: Awww, I knew that nice sandy terrain was just too good to last! I used 2 Khalids, a batal, a rasikh and a mufariq- the rasikh (which had only 5 movement) and the mufariq were definitely not good units for this scenario, and I also definitely could have used more ranged units to kill those annoying footpads/outlaws in retaliation. The first attempt basically ended with everyone dead; the scenario lasted much longer than I expected so I already used most of the potions before getting to the ghouls, so almost everyone got poisoned and there wasn't time to heal it with the horde of bandits following.
I think the scenario was much easier when I replayed it with knowledge of the map and where the various enemies were. It also helped that I had very good luck with converting the rats, which held that 1-hex bridge over the chasm for several turns. I ended with 6 potions left, but I carefully managed the XP throughout the scenario to get units to heal by AMLA, so I got a lot of healing that way.
Typos
18 Roaming the dunes

93: The city were I grew up -> where
94: stunned by the heath -> heat (?)
96: Never I thought -> Never would I have thought / I never would have thought
96: I stopped and enjoyed the feeling for few minutes, thinking of the years when the furthest distance my eye could reach was few dozens yards -> a few minutes, a few dozen [a few = a small amount, like two or three; few = very little / insufficient]
99: sand was covering long chunks of the road, making hard to follow the track. -> making it hard to follow the track.
897: The message ("They are not very impressed, I am afraid they have no idea of who Falaweè is.") is missing the race=khalifate line so it gets spoken by the falcon.

19 Frontier guard

105: You are too cynic. -> cynical
117: Nothing different than the other six months we have been stationing here. -> stationed
161: We shall talk to the guards, sure they'll be surprised of seeing us. -> surely they'll be surprised to see us / I'm sure they'll be surprised to see us.
209: this men in front of us.. -> This man
229: We don't have news of your father since more than a year ago. -> haven't had
257: I suppose the best think I can do is talking to the minister and gather as much information as I could. -> I suppose the best thing I can do is talk to the minister and gather as much information as I can.
277: Once you will have explained the situation to Hekmal he will immediately grant the permission. -> Once you have explained / Once you explain
289: I can consent on that. -> to

20 Road to Uqraba

205: and what he says about the scorpions is true. -> And
213: Had the guards not allowed me to bring few men with me, -> a few
318: Everyone follows him! -> follow

21 Sewers

203: Isn't ironic that we have marched for thousands of miles only to walk in the underground again? -> Isn't it ironic
253: the circumstances of Ahlir disappearance -> Ahlir's
498: Little they know that I was just below their feet -> Little did they know
498: Reljab told me about it short before he left. -> shortly
534: It was very egoist from me -> egoistic
534: and I was close to lose my life. -> losing
550: When the militia will have confirmed Ahlir as the legitimate Emir in charge -> confirms
797: Not only she was -> Not only was she
1104: The gate will be opened on the next turn if Ahlir does not move and it is not attacked. -> is
582: The forces balance is tight -> forces'
1405, 1415: resented -> resentful
1618: Keep a safety distance -> safe
Attachments
RftA-The_Forest_of_the_Cros..._replay.gz
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RftA-Familiar_Landscapes_replay.gz
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RftA-The_Sewer_of_Uqraba_replay.gz
(110.35 KiB) Downloaded 84 times

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12]

Post by skeptical_troll » May 11th, 2017, 12:08 am

Hi Inky, thanks for the feedback and the correction, as usual!
I think I'll give a warning in 'road to Uqraba' about not losing units. It's so short that anybody will replay it anyway if they suffer losses.
Poor goblins! At least they drew the attention of a few enemy units away from the core of the battle (that's actually all they are useful for, but still it helps).

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12]

Post by Inky » May 13th, 2017, 4:17 am

Finished the campaign, the ending is epic!!

-In Road to Uqraba, the objective note says "The carried-over gold is kept by Faylazur" but there doesn't seem to be any carryover from this scenario.

-Assault at the Border: The objectives aren't consistent; they start off being Defeat >= 2 leaders and have <= 10 enemies remaining (which seem to be the actual victory conditions) but when Khafir arrives the objectives change to just "defeat all enemy leaders."

-The Die is Cast: The squad of assassins only appears on turns 3 and 10 and not on the later turns; I think line 701 needs first_time_only=no.
The side 3 (green) units have a tendency to just wander around and not attack, I guess it's intentional but it lessens the difficulty of the initial battle against the fort's main army.

The sluices mechanic was interesting, but I think that by the time you've fought your way through the outer fort and can open the inner sluices the battle is basically over already? Also I personally found the bridge bottlenecks to be more beneficial to me than to the enemy, especially since there is no turn limit so you can slowly pick off guards in the bottleneck.

The dialogue seemed to suggest that a major force was coming from the north so you had to get into the fort quickly, but the northern reinforcements were basically not any threat if you intercepted them before they got to the armory. Possibly, the northern units could get stronger over time (higher level units instead of just level 0/1) as an incentive to finish quickly, and if this makes it too hard maybe there could be less fort guards to compensate.
Replay summaries
The Academy: Sent most units east and then south towards the eastern leader while a small group (basically Othrondor by himself - he is like the Mal Keshar of this campaign 8)) assassinated the western leader. Managed to level a couple dwarvish lords which were really helpful later. Finished turn 23/32.

Assault at the border: Okay, I clearly didn't play this right :whistle: Probably the best thing to do would have been to send Faylazur's units toward the northeast leader, instead I tried to blitz the southwestern undead leader which ended up with still trying to finish the undead while getting surrounded by Khalifate from the north and bandits from the east. Luckily Khafir's units arrived *just* in time to clear out most of the bandits so Faylazur could escape east, but every single one of Faylazur's veterans died :oops: With that kind of mortality rate, it is no wonder that Faylazur wasn't allowed to recruit/recall units after this scenario! :P Finished turn 31/41 for 234 carryover.

p.s. This was one of my favorite scenarios! I really loved the dual maps and the way it alternated between sending Faylazur's units to their gruesome deaths holding out with Faylazur's units while rushing to save them with Khafir's units.

The die is cast: 404 starting gold. I love epic final battles! :) I just went for a brute force approach and immediately recalled all the veterans I could afford (a more patient strategy would be to only recall loyals and bank money at the beginning). Quickly got rid of the nearby northeastern leader with the help of very good RNG, then spent the next few turns wiping out the main forces from the other leaders. Then a small group went to defend the armory, another small group picked off the outer guards one by one in the northwestern bridge bottleneck, and the rest of the units went to kill the southeast leader and then attack the fort from the south while a couple units freed the prisoners. (I forgot to free a couple of them and didn't even notice the northeastern section, but because I got to the prison very late the battle was already almost over at this point.) Finished turn 53.

---
Campaign recruits: At the end of the campaign I had 35 regular and 27 mounted recruits left.
Typos
22 score to settle

230: If this is not the first time that you save the life of my son, -> saved
262: despite of what humans think about us. -> despite / in spite of
298: Weight well the consequences of your decision, this time. -> Weigh

23 The Academy

15: siege_of_laurelmore.ogg -> laurelmor (This typo is also in 19 frontier guard)
34: I forced myself to focus on the imminent fight against the fanatic -> fanatics
264: it is matter of urgency -> it is a matter of urgency
282: in few hours -> in a few hours
349: name=attacker -> name=attack
412: all the foreigners mercenaries -> foreign
452: sound=wolf-groul-4.ogg -> wolf-growl-4.ogg
457: You arrival is late! -> Your
461: We must make haste to the academy, I fell they might be in danger too. -> fear (?)
515: All the crime you are committing -> crimes
525: your hateful kin and your ambiguous accomplices -> abhorrent, detestable, etc. (ambiguous = unsure/unclear)
566: Your visit is as unexpected as timely -> Your visit is as unexpected as it is timely
570: I returned from voluntarily exile -> voluntary
625: However, grave facts happened today, -> a word like "events," "occurences," etc. would fit more with the verb "happened"
698: Put it in simple words, -> To put it in simple words, / Put simply,
706: Everybody knows that the sun rises every day, but how many knows why? -> know

24 Council at the Academy

108: he wasn't appeased by this solution because the day after, yesterday, sent another message -> he sent another message (right now, it reads like "the day after" is the subject of the second part.)
132: that a group mercenaries was approaching -> that a group of mercenaries was approaching
136: he let the mercenaries doing such a shameful and dirty job. -> do
140: That is the kind of tasks -> That is the kind of task / Those are the kinds of tasks
172: Then we will finally banish the stranger mercenaries once and for all. -> foreign ("stranger" usually isn't used as an adjective)
184: after thousands miles together -> thousands of miles
200: We shall take the path that run along the southern flank -> runs
200: I don't think it is guarded by more then few men. -> than a few

25 Battle at the Border

29: No man will have been left at the academy, -> No man was left
757: I really regret of having sent you on mission. -> I really regret having sent you on this ["that" works too] mission.
780: The enemies are too confused to oppose resistance. -> something like "oppose us" or "provide resistance" (original wording is a double negative)

26 The die is cast

29: Our column, lead by me -> led
29: nor Faylazur and his men could -> nor could Faylazur and his men
31: After seven years, eight months and twenty day, -> days
37: he dropped his shield, his sword and run to her -> ran (and I think "he dropped his shield and his sword and ran to her" sounds more natural)
46: The fort, built long time before -> a long time before / long before
539: he blame us for bringing strangers -> blames
551: Few decades ago -> A few decades ago
559: If that is true, they must be in the small island south of the fort, west of here. -> Should this be "east"?
1603: The city is temporary without a guide -> temporarily

27 Epilogue

16: The remaining mercenaries forces -> mercenary forces / mercenaries' forces
16: Most of them were simply too scared of the fanatics and their violent manners to oppose resistance to Hekmal -> oppose / resist against
130: Beside, -> Besides,
134: A general without his army is hardly any useful. -> hardly any use / hardly useful
162: It is us, collectively, who must repay you -> we
174: What is it better? -> What is better?
174: My people are grateful for you help -> your
186: The final thing I ask you to consider is, whom would serve best your interests at the guide of Uqraba? -> who, as
186: Certainly not me, a men with little or no military experience, -> man (Certainly not me -> Certainly not I, but this is very pedantic)
372: The men you have lead home -> led
380: because attachment beyond reason is the damnation of fouls. -> souls ?
380: Short before your mother passed away, -> Shortly
384: Your words makes me more proud -> make
396: too long my staff lied unused in a dusty corner! -> lay
404: Your story and your friends dwarves give me new hope -> dwarven friends
499: discovered the route that lead to this continent -> led

27b epilogue2

14: The remaining mercenaries forces -> mercenary forces / mercenaries' forces
14: Most of them were simply too scared of the fanatics and their violent manners to oppose resistance to Hekmal -> oppose / resist against
Thanks for all your hard work in making this epic campaign! It was a lot of fun and I loved the creative scenario designs, and the great writing, and the humor (Begol and Bragor need their own campaign :D ). I think you did an amazing job of keeping the traditional Wesnoth gameplay/strategy while always doing something new and interesting. I really loved playing it!
Attachments
RftA-The_Academy_replay.gz
(118.44 KiB) Downloaded 79 times
RftA-Assault_at_the_Border_replay.gz
what not to do... (use Point of View -> Full Map to view)
(149.42 KiB) Downloaded 79 times
RftA-The_Die_is_Cast_replay.gz
final scenario
(182.9 KiB) Downloaded 83 times

Computer_Player
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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12]

Post by Computer_Player » May 14th, 2017, 2:32 am

Thank for making this campaign! I really like the idea of Khalifate as an "unhomed" group of people. If you are familar with Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever series of books (one of the best fantasy series) there is a similar race though they are Giants instead.

I haven't finished this yet and will be sure to give feedback (that electric eel scenario was hard but good! XD)

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12]

Post by skeptical_troll » May 14th, 2017, 5:46 pm

I released a new version, there are a few modifications to the texts (including Inky's corrections and something along Otdoy's suggestions), plus some tweaks to the sewer and the final scenarios.
Inky wrote:The side 3 (green) units have a tendency to just wander around and not attack, I guess it's intentional but it lessens the difficulty of the initial battle against the fort's main army.
Those I believe are the assassins' escort, since the assassins at the moment just stay away from the battle, so does their escort. If I port this campaign to 1.13 or 1.14 I will try out how the 'assassin squad' micro AI works (or maybe I will try to port the micro AI in wesnoth 1.12, I remember there was a way to do so)
Inky wrote: The sluices mechanic was interesting, but I think that by the time you've fought your way through the outer fort and can open the inner sluices the battle is basically over already? Also I personally found the bridge bottlenecks to be more beneficial to me than to the enemy, especially since there is no turn limit so you can slowly pick off guards in the bottleneck.
I changed a bit the hexes allowed for the guards, now they shouldn't come out for a 1 vs 1 on the bridge. This, however, will make it easier to close the sluices, but it is probably more fun this way, rather than slowly picking single enemies.
Inky wrote:The dialogue seemed to suggest that a major force was coming from the north so you had to get into the fort quickly, but the northern reinforcements were basically not any threat if you intercepted them before they got to the armory. Possibly, the northern units could get stronger over time (higher level units instead of just level 0/1) as an incentive to finish quickly, and if this makes it too hard maybe there could be less fort guards to compensate.
In your case the reinforcements triggered very late, because you waited to kill the side 3 leader, so they never got the chance to recruit. I changed the triggering condition now and it should happen a bit earlier. However, I don't intend these reinforcements to be a serious threat, but just to give the player another side-objective (guard the armory or the pass).

Thanks again for your detailed feedback and comments, they were really useful. I'm really glad that you enjoyed the campaign, if I have time I will make the sequel about the reign of terror of Begol and Bragor over the whole Irdya ^_^
Computer_Player wrote: I really like the idea of Khalifate as an "unhomed" group of people. If you are familar with Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever series of books (one of the best fantasy series) there is a similar race though they are Giants instead.
Interesting, I'm not familiar with Covenant's books. In this case, however, it is just a group of soldiers which is lost far away from home, so maybe it's a bit different.

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