Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.14]

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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skeptical_troll
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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.13]

Post by skeptical_troll » May 1st, 2018, 8:22 pm

Hi keeet.
First of all, I really appreciate that you took the time to write such a detailed and thought-out comment, making an UMC campaign can be a hundred hours effort or more and seeing other people discussing the ideas we put forward as authors is the best reward we can get. I'm glad to hear you overall enjoyed the campaign. You raise several valid points, I'll comment on some of them.
  • Unit variety: It's true that having only three dunefolk unit types to recruit for the first half of the campaign may feel like a limitation. The main reason was that the horse units didn't fit the underground setting (plus, Khafir is an infantry commander), and I left the healers out to prevent the 'rotate around the healer' gameplay. If new dunefolk infantry units are created in the future, I'll consider adding them in. For the moment, I'm happy with complement those recruits with the different allies. I'm not sure if I agree with you about the little usefulness of Soldiers (mainly because of marksman + good resistances), but that depends pretty much on the playing style.
  • Old Castle: you are right, in the cases where the player barely makes it the dialog will sound inconsistent. The best option is probably to reduce the centipede spawning in the last few turns, there is plenty of action anyway in this level and players will appreciate some relief: it sucks to die 2 turns before the end.
  • Sewer: it has already been suggested to add a short dialog suggesting to take quick units as companions. It's probably about time that I do it :)
  • AI scripting: it never occured to me that in 'Orcs Strike Back' players can just bypass the walls and approach the fortress from the mountains. I now added the surrounding of the leaders to the area of responsibility for the guards, this should fix it. Reguarding the assassin squad, I must admit I don't fully grasp the details of the implementation, but it is supposed to make the assassins circle around other units to reach the target. What you described sounded more or less like the intended behavior. It should be fairly easy to body-guard Ahlir, I just wanted to add a small side goal for the player to take care of.
  • Begol in the last scenario is supposed to be automatically recalled. I realize that it may not be the case if the falcon and Arzeh are both alive, it is now fixed for the next version.
  • Writing: giving the sense of a wider world has been one of my priorities, so I'm very happy to hear that this was effectively conveyed in the narration. I thought a few times about ways of improving the characterization of the cult, showing more of its sides and revealing more about their backstory, but didn't find a good one (except adding a text file in the add-on folder that probably nobody ever read :D ). I feel the campaign is already on the verbose side, and it is in a state in which I'm very careful about modifications, so I don't want to add text if not sparingly. Modifying the dialog between Khafir and Rynwarth is an option, giving a more central role to Nuryo is another one. Same for Hekmal, although I see him more as a tool in the cult's hands. Well, I'll wait for the inspiration if it ever comes :)
Thanks again for the feedback!

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.13]

Post by Octavian-Augusts » May 8th, 2018, 5:08 pm

When is part 2 coming ??? :augh:

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.13]

Post by skeptical_troll » May 8th, 2018, 7:25 pm

Octavian-Augusts wrote:
May 8th, 2018, 5:08 pm
When is part 2 coming ???
Hail, emperor. I'm not sure I understand what you mean, the campaign is finished and part 2 and 3 are out since more than a year. Are you asking about a sequel? Or did you simply post the question on the wrong thread?

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.13]

Post by Sudipta » May 12th, 2018, 7:42 pm

I've been wanting to play this campaign for a long time and i finally got to it. I'm playing RftA latest version in BfW 1.14.1 on Hard difficulty. I finished part 1. It's been enjoyable this far. Here's my feedback:
Spoiler:
The Old Castle was the hardest scenario by far. I'd like to see a replay of it on hard if someone can provide it. I like the story and the dialogue, its well written and interesting. The second part looks promising.
Spoiler:
Have a nice day!
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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.13]

Post by taptap » May 12th, 2018, 8:34 pm

Sudipta wrote:
May 12th, 2018, 7:42 pm
The Old Castle was the hardest scenario by far. I'd like to see a replay of it on hard if someone can provide it.
There are several in this thread (even w/o closing any lines of attack). Some versions back though. Mine was from 2016. Dwarves are good and level up heals as well.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.13]

Post by skeptical_troll » May 12th, 2018, 9:45 pm

Hi Sudipta, thanks for the feedback and for finding the bugs/typos, I fixed them already.
Sudipta wrote:
May 12th, 2018, 7:42 pm
Make it so that the scenario ends if u kill the enemy leader with a dwarf alive.
Indeed, this was supposed to be a defeat condition (it is now)
Sudipta wrote:
May 12th, 2018, 7:42 pm
The Old Castle was the hardest scenario by far. I'd like to see a replay of it on hard if someone can provide it.
As taptap said, the key is to use and level up dwarves as much as you can. You can find a few replays in the thread, I attach one of a play-test I did on 'hard' some time ago, I think I followed more or less my standard approach (it's on 1.12 though).

As long as they aren't boring, I'm fine with having a few easy scenarios, the campaign has plenty of hard ones I think.
Thanks again, I look forward to hear what you think of the rest. :)
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RftA-The_Old_Castle_replay.gz
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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.13]

Post by Sudipta » May 12th, 2018, 10:21 pm

I read taptap’s and inky’s comments on the Old castle scenario. Her insight is spot-on as always, and as for u

Taptap-
Spoiler:
My attempt –
Spoiler:
I’m gonna replay this scenario after I finish the campaign. I realized that my mistake was holding back 250 gold and being over reliant on the dunefolk. If I go all out with the gold and build a good mix of dwarves and veteran dunefolk the scenario would become much easier. Great scenario this one!

Skeptical_troll - yeah i got the gist of the optimum playstyle from taptap's replay. I really look forward to the rest of the campaign. I'd also like a rematch against rise of the planet of the centipedes sometime :twisted:
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Playing Wesnoth since 2010, still there is so much left to play

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.13]

Post by Octavian-Augusts » May 15th, 2018, 2:15 pm

Hail, emperor. I'm not sure I understand what you mean, the campaign is finished and part 2 and 3 are out since more than a year. Are you asking about a sequel? Or did you simply post the question on the wrong thread?
[/quote]

I am asking about a sequel...are you busy with one or working on a plot for one ??? asking for a friend :lol: ...Anyway this was an amazing piece if work !! But like all good campaigns, it leaves you wanting more :cry:

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.13]

Post by Sudipta » May 15th, 2018, 3:06 pm

Finished Part 2. The campaign keeps getting better.
Spoiler:
I really like how the story turned out.I like campaigns where u fight against Wesnoth, glad u put in this twist. Only final part left now :)
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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.13]

Post by skeptical_troll » May 15th, 2018, 7:54 pm

Octavian-Augusts wrote:
May 15th, 2018, 2:15 pm
I am asking about a sequel...are you busy with one or working on a plot for one ??? asking for a friend
Haha, tell your friend that I'm indeed working on something else, but it is not a sequel of RftA, although it is loosely connected to it. I'm not sure when it will be ready though because I'm quite busy with real life too. I may do as I did for RftA, i.e. release it in parts.

@Sudipta
Spoiler:
thanks again for the suggestions and for finding the typos!

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.13]

Post by Sudipta » May 19th, 2018, 10:17 am

Finished the campaign on Hard BfW 1.14. For starters, let's just say it's one of the top level UMC's of BfW. :D
Scenario notes for part 3 -
Spoiler:
Finished at last! It was wonderful. The story writing is top- notch. I especially loved the epilogue, hats off to u for that. It’s brilliantly written and is a perfect ending for the campaign. I also loved the two dwarves begol and bregor, they’re very amusing. And the character development of khafir was also well done.

As for gameplay the scenarios are well balanced for hard difficulty, with difficult scenarios followed by easier scenarios. The hardest scenario for me was The old castle, and the final scenario being the second, and those are the fights i enjoyed most along with the fights against humans and elves in part 2. Part 3 is a little boring in terms of enemy variety, its mostly fighting the cultists over and over. The final battle was magnificent though, so it more than makes up for it. Part 1 and part 2 had better battles on average while part 3 has better story.

Plot questions -
Spoiler:
Well that’s it for me. I hope my feedback was helpful. Congratulations on a great campaign and best of luck for your next project. ^_^
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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.13]

Post by skeptical_troll » May 19th, 2018, 8:01 pm

Thanks for the playing the campaign and for all the feedback and typos/bugs hunting, it was really useful. I'm very glad that you enjoyed it! :)
on part 3:
Sudipta wrote:
May 19th, 2018, 10:17 am
Part 3 is a little boring in terms of enemy variety, its mostly fighting the cultists over and over.
The lack of enemy variety in part 3 (well, last 4 scenarios to be precise, but also the last 2 of part 2) is indeed something I'm not totally happy about, however these scenarios are strongly story-driven and I can't think of consistent ways of introducing different enemies. Increasing the variety of units within the cult is the best option, and I already tried to do it by adding the shadow mages, the war dogs and the weird dunefolk-outlaws hybrids in the last battle. I will keep my eyes open if I find suitable units to borrow from other UMCs.

Coming to your plot questions:
Spoiler:

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.13]

Post by Sudipta » May 19th, 2018, 9:26 pm

skeptical_troll wrote:
May 19th, 2018, 8:01 pm
The practical reason behind the passive militia is that those units are recallable in the next scenario, so I don't want them to suicide here. When the chief mentions the casualties he's referring to events right before Khafir's and Othrondor's intervention
Hmm, i figured it would be something like that. But it's a little strange that they do nothing while a big battle is going on right at their doorstep. If they had been fighting cultists before khafirs arrival, then that's all the more reason to team up with khafir against the cultists, making use of the opportunity. Maybe u could give the player control of the militia as a second side and put some enemy units near the academy during start of scenario? That would make the militia more actively involved in the fight. Food for thought.
skeptical_troll wrote:
May 19th, 2018, 8:01 pm
The lack of enemy variety in part 3 (well, last 4 scenarios to be precise, but also the last 2 of part 2) is indeed something I'm not totally happy about, however these scenarios are strongly story-driven and I can't think of consistent ways of introducing different enemies. Increasing the variety of units within the cult is the best option, and I already tried to do it by adding the shadow mages, the war dogs and the weird dunefolk-outlaws hybrids in the last battle. I will keep my eyes open if I find suitable units to borrow from other UMCs.
U could maybe introduce some undead enemies somewhere. The cult has used undead before, but only to transform dying soldiers into walking corpses. For example - Maybe one of the officers of the cult in uqraba is a necromancer with the power to summon some decent undead units ? Perhaps during the sewer scenario, they get chased by the minions of a cultist necromancer who had been hiding in the sewer underground the city ? The lore could be that perhaps the cult doesn't prefer necromancy but wont hesitate to resort to it when their existence is at stake and so they employ undead as a last ditch effort to defend themselves. It's also how they are able to carry out the most rough and dangerous missions with success. It felt weird to me that a bunch of thugs are able to complete missions that the wesnoth army hesitates to undertake... so maybe necromancy is like their secret trump card
skeptical_troll wrote:
May 19th, 2018, 8:01 pm
a few back-stories within the campaign are open-ended. This is partly because I wanted to give the sense of a larger, eventful world, partly because I had plans to elaborate on some of them in other campaigns, which may or may not be finished depending on how inspired I feel and how much time I'll manage to spend on them.
You certainly did a good job at creating that sense of multiple events going on. I for one was intrigued by all the different factions fighting one another.
I'll be hoping that inspiration comes to u in abundance :lol:
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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.13]

Post by Gofio » June 8th, 2018, 12:33 am

I got an error loading "Audience with the king",

Unknown tile in map: (Ur^Prg) 'Ur^Prg'

I'm playing with 1.14.2 (Ubuntu).

Campaign version 1.1.4

Update: If I install UMC_Terrain_Pack I get (Ubr^Prg) 'Urb^Prg' instead, may I missing another pack or era?

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Re: Return from the Abyss [SP campaign for 1.12/1.13]

Post by skeptical_troll » June 8th, 2018, 7:26 am

Thanks for notifying this, I didn't realize that with the new Wesnoth version some of the terrain codes changed. It should be fixed now, and there is no need for any other pack, just update the campaign.

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