Ashen Hearts [SP Drake Campaign for 1.12.6]

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Delicius169
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Re: Ashen Hearts [SP Drake Campaign for 1.12.6]

Post by Delicius169 »

I liked Buffing my unit, thought I didnt enjoyed it a lot. It s just 3 units- flying drakes- with buffing (because those two slowly drakes are worthless.
Thougt I think the last scenario was too easy. How about giving about 6-7 loyal dwarfish gunsmen (3th lvl) to enemy?

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WhereIsBaodur
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Re: Ashen Hearts [SP Drake Campaign for 1.12.6]

Post by WhereIsBaodur »

a strange thing happened in scenario 5 runic gate. I explored with flying drakes then went northwest, broke the wall and noticed there was a pit. so i sent my flying troops there and the other just below, where there is a single dwarf. The strange thing is that the main dwarf force (just a bit southeast) never chased me once I was inside, I don't know if it's because I never went inside their immediate range or because they were distracted by elves or something. In any case I kinda liked the idea of them keeping their grounds at any cost like old fashioned dwarves would do, but I think that's not exactly what was intended

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Kwandulin
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Re: Ashen Hearts [SP Drake Campaign for 1.12.6]

Post by Kwandulin »

Delicius169 wrote:Thougt I think the last scenario was too easy. How about giving about 6-7 loyal dwarfish gunsmen (3th lvl) to enemy?
I added 5 Dragonguards and 2 Bear Riders now as bodyguards for Ilrandh (he is the king at least, isn't he).
WhereIsBaodur wrote:a strange thing happened in scenario 5 runic gate. I explored with flying drakes then went northwest, broke the wall and noticed there was a pit. so i sent my flying troops there and the other just below, where there is a single dwarf. The strange thing is that the main dwarf force (just a bit southeast) never chased me once I was inside, I don't know if it's because I never went inside their immediate range or because they were distracted by elves or something. In any case I kinda liked the idea of them keeping their grounds at any cost like old fashioned dwarves would do, but I think that's not exactly what was intended
Ah, it was mentioned earlier but I misunderstood it apparently. Sorry for that. Yes, the dwarves are unfortunately piling up at the southeast. This probably has to do with the bottleneck micro ai that somehow prefers the bottlenecks in the south east. Also, the bottleneck micro ai understandably has 'problems' with enemies coming from behind, but I think that is indeed intended. I fixed that by making a mix of the bottleneck micro ai and a goto ai that tolds the initial guards to just stand at their wall, so they don't shuffle around and move to the southeast. I also split the dwarves into two teams, one is the guardian that protects the walls now (and which has arguably less gold to pump more guards) and the other one is one of a 'dwarvish fighter kind' that protects the interior of the temple by moving its units through the halls. Also, when deciding to break through the walls instead of breaking through their defenses, you won't be able to just sneak through the whole temple entrance anymore. I hope that this behaviour feels much more natural now as you'll now have to fight dwarves once you are behind the walls. Thanks for the hint!

Also two further questions:
1. How useful did you find the additional enemy unit types, e.g. the Bear Rider, the Dwarvish Protector and the Gryphon Thunderlord? Did you feel like they were redundant and did not fulfil any new role? Did you feel like they enhance the story parts of the campaign? Did they add something unique to the campaign?
2. It has been mentioned widely that the melee drakes (Clasher, Warden, Thrasher, etc.) are pretty much useless in this campaign. How could the campaign encourage the use of those units? Would greater terrain changes be needed or would simple mechanics suffice (e.g. opening up a passage in S6: Tears of the Heartfangs with a Clasher/Warden/Trasher/etc. so that they can move through the depths more quickly and don't fall behind)?

Thanks for your feedback!
Last edited by Kwandulin on August 17th, 2016, 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Delicius169
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Re: Ashen Hearts [SP Drake Campaign for 1.12.6]

Post by Delicius169 »

1. Dwarvish protector uses his distant attack only when he is atacking- I dont know if it s intended, or not. It would definitely make game much more difficult, if he could use it in defense too.
Gryphon thunderer has a posibility to be really dangerous foe, maybe the most dangerous of all. Thought I was lucky, I met only two of them in my game, and they attacked wrong guy.
Bear rider- I never fought a one, but they were the only dwarfs able to chase me in scenario 3. I just saw how they smashed yetti and two dragon clasher of my enemy.
Melee drakes. Well there are missions when you are supposed to use drakes main advantage- ability to move fast and attack on lone enemy unit. Which is really fun. I dont think melee drakes are really good. They have bad defense, bad resistances, bad movement. How about improving their resistances (stamina?)? Or adding next lvl? But maybe someone alse found how to use them better.

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Kwandulin
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Re: Ashen Hearts [SP Drake Campaign for 1.12.6]

Post by Kwandulin »

Okay, here's the next update. I'm very glad about how it all turned out. Thanks a lot for the feedback, it helped a ton!
ilrandh.png
Full changelog for 0.1.3
  • General
  • new icon
  • Dragonheart can fly now
  • squashed several typos
  • added story image for epilogue
  • Dwarvish Protectors can now use their lightning strike in offense
  • added more story facets to the epilogue

    S3: Snowthorn Vale
  • Kernlarn's drakes can now melt ice, too
  • slightly moved a drake clasher so he doesn't start on ice
  • Kernlarn now warns the player when first entering his realm
  • added a secret item that can be obtained when killing Cragdin (probably one of the hardest items to achieve)

    S4: The Wanderer
  • slightly changed the lake, so that the tile where the wanderer spawns on is in the middle

    S5: Runic Gates
  • fixed ai piling up all the dwarves to the southeast and added a special guardian side
  • dwarves are now moving inside the halls and attack the player when he enters the halls

    S7: Dragonheart
  • removed the buff when activating the runes
  • animated Khazran's light

    S8: Ilrandh
  • Menor IV talks when he meets Khazran and gets empowered
  • Menor IV talks when the player won
  • added more story (Herkarth is crowned king, Underearth Crown gets destroyed by Khazran, etc.)
  • reduced Ilrandh's hitpoints to 90, now it is more likely to kill him with Khazran
  • Ilrandh got a fancy sprite, now showing him with the Underearth Crown
  • army of Ilrandh repositions itself before the war
  • added additional dragonguards and bear riders for Ilrandh
  • set Ilrandh's color to gold

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WhereIsBaodur
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Re: Ashen Hearts [SP Drake Campaign for 1.12.6]

Post by WhereIsBaodur »

Well, about the new units, I absolutely loved them. As you said they add to the unique feel of the campaign (and if you ever go mainline, all this happens after the rebirth of knalga, so it kinda make sense that they have upgraded weapons and units). every time I saw a new one I sent a text message to a friend of mine saying "this campaign is great, play it". Fire runes were pretty good for the same reasons. It all probably has something to do with dwarves being my favourite race, so I can't hep admiring them as I fight them. My awe started pretty soon when I saw phalanxes in scenario 2 (a pity they break formation so soon), and when uluthur takes the dwarf runesmith above the volcano I watched with my mouth open. In short, awesome epic feeling.
gameplaywise, the grifon lords (lv3) were quite the challange, even for swordmasters. I noticed that their progression was lv1--level2 or lv3, and not a straight progression from 1 to 3. if that's true (they never got a chance to level up in my game) this could be a problem XD

The question about the non-flying drakes it's more difficult to answer. I started with a lot of them in the first scenario (because I thought that a fight between drakes would ultimately be decided by piercing damage - and resistance. on the other hand, what allowed me to finish the scenario with both loyal units was a select team of flying ones led by a drake with leadership. the enemy had only non-flying units left and the advantage of terrain+mobility was enormous). I guess both arguments have their merit and they both worked very well for me.
I made the mistake of playing the second scenario with land units, mostly, which turned the scenario in a very deadly game of chess XD
In the 3rd and others - whenever you have to be quick they were completely useless and I had the sense not to recruit them.
About the units per se I love the drake warden - quick attack, good damage and resistences - while I find the enforcer pretty useless. I got a couple of them all the same because I like to have at least one of every unit type and because I thought I could need the impact attack against undead. In the end it was useful against dwarf protectors (and to break the wall)
All things considered they have their uses, and the main disadvantage is speed. bloody slow the lot of them. that was the greatest drawback really, expecially cause you need to finish the game quickly whenever possible to get the extra gold. so they almost always ended up lagging behind.

All this being said this is an expert campaign, so you need every advantage possible, no matter the drawbacks, and they have their use if you know when to use them. and if you play the first 3 scenarios right (1st mainly) the rest of the campaign isn't that hard, and you can afford to use them.

I'll finish the last 2 scenarios and get back to you on that. [edit] rats, will I be able to use the update with my game?

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Kwandulin
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Re: Ashen Hearts [SP Drake Campaign for 1.12.6]

Post by Kwandulin »

You should be able to continue playing with the updated version as nothing major has changed regarding unit ids etc. But I didn't explicitly test it myself.

Also thanks for the answers to my questions. It doesn't seem like I have to change a lot about them, then. Thanks!

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WhereIsBaodur
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Re: Ashen Hearts [SP Drake Campaign for 1.12.6]

Post by WhereIsBaodur »

Finished scenario 7, you need an enforcer to activate the runes :P that's one more use for them

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ForestDragon
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Re: Ashen Hearts [SP Drake Campaign for 1.12.6]

Post by ForestDragon »

let me tell you honestly, i borrowed EVERY SINGLE (even the Porter thing, but not the drake with dwarf) unit type used in this campaign for TGA (my era), it's just so amazing that i couldn't resist it, thanks for making those sprites Kwandulin, your return to the forums made my few days, by the way

EDIT: btw, here is a franken i made with oakenstone put inside the crown, you can use it for a cutscene that happens when Illrandith (or whatever his name is) gets to the stone
underearthking-stone.png
underearthking-stone.png (8.55 KiB) Viewed 2837 times
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WhereIsBaodur
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Re: Ashen Hearts [SP Drake Campaign for 1.12.6]

Post by WhereIsBaodur »

I finished the older version. I have to say I kinda like the buff and fire overlay of scenario 7, maybe you could just reduce the buff? (it's no big deal anyway, since I kinda expected to be damaged by them in the first place)
the last scenario was very funny if a bit easy. I guess the new dragonguards change things a bit! I like the king having so many hp you have to try again and again, but, I guess that had to be changed if he's surrounded by dragonguards. the wind runes made gameplay very funny, it would have been even funnier - if deadlier - if they were used by the enemies too.
About the dwarf protectors, in the last scenario I noticed they get very badly damaged by fire, making a bit too easy to defeat them. If you were to increase their fire resistence that'd be more challenging, and drake enforcers would see more play. (if need be, you can always add more wind runes to make them easier to deploy)
all in all great campaign.

I have installed wesnoth 1.13.5 to try the new changes but I can't see it in the extension list. There's a different way to download it or should I just wait?

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Kwandulin
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Re: Ashen Hearts [SP Drake Campaign for 1.12.6]

Post by Kwandulin »

ForestDragon wrote:let me tell you honestly, i borrowed EVERY SINGLE (even the Porter thing, but not the drake with dwarf) unit type used in this campaign for TGA (my era), it's just so amazing that i couldn't resist it, thanks for making those sprites Kwandulin, your return to the forums made my few days, by the way

EDIT: btw, here is a franken i made with oakenstone put inside the crown, you can use it for a cutscene that happens when Illrandith (or whatever his name is) gets to the stone
Oh, that's actually a sweet idea. Not having a hard ending - the scenario ends when Ilrandh gets to the Oaken's Stone - but rather having a soft ending - Ilrandh gets so powerful that he can simply defeat the player - and the fight would go on then but can't be won. I am afraid it would confuse many players, though, but it might be a nice gimmick.

And sure you can use the sprites, but I doubt it's very reasonable to have unique units to be a standard unit of a faction. One wouldn't have an army of Konrads either . . .

Also do note that most of the sprites in the campaign are just relatively minor edits to the mainline/zerovirus ones, so I won't and can't claim any credit here.
WhereIsBaodur wrote:I finished the older version. I have to say I kinda like the buff and fire overlay of scenario 7, maybe you could just reduce the buff? (it's no big deal anyway, since I kinda expected to be damaged by them in the first place)
the last scenario was very funny if a bit easy. I guess the new dragonguards change things a bit! I like the king having so many hp you have to try again and again, but, I guess that had to be changed if he's surrounded by dragonguards. the wind runes made gameplay very funny, it would have been even funnier - if deadlier - if they were used by the enemies too.
About the dwarf protectors, in the last scenario I noticed they get very badly damaged by fire, making a bit too easy to defeat them. If you were to increase their fire resistence that'd be more challenging, and drake enforcers would see more play. (if need be, you can always add more wind runes to make them easier to deploy)
all in all great campaign.

I have installed wesnoth 1.13.5 to try the new changes but I can't see it in the extension list. There's a different way to download it or should I just wait?
In the new version I allowed the dwarvish protectors to use their lightning strike also in defense (I mixed things up in the changelog), so roasting them shouldn't be that easy anymore. Also reducing the hp of Ilrandh didn't change that much. It's still only Khazran that can defeat him, yet it is more likely to kill him within a reasonable amount of attacks (the expected value is now 6 attacks, instead of the former 8 attacks) Regarding the wind runes: I don't have a clue on how to tell the dwarves to make clever use of the runes, I'll tinker a bit with the idea, but I can't promise anything here. The campaign is only on 1.12.6 currently. Thanks for playing!

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ForestDragon
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Re: Ashen Hearts [SP Drake Campaign for 1.12.6]

Post by ForestDragon »

Kwandulin wrote:And sure you can use the sprites, but I doubt it's very reasonable to have unique units to be a standard unit of a faction. One wouldn't have an army of Konrads either . . .
well, i am kinda using them as advancements (mostly optional ones) dwarvish protector seems to be used like a regular lvl3 unit anyway, and i used wanderer as an optional lvl4 who can summon his illusion via a rightclick menu, and the main antagonist can be used as a lvl5 dwarvish arcanister, and dragonheart as lvl5 armageddon drake, i added Porter too, but haven't come up with a use for it yet
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WhereIsBaodur
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Re: Ashen Hearts [SP Drake Campaign for 1.12.6]

Post by WhereIsBaodur »

I realize what I just said could be problematic so here're my two cents. Forget the individual buffs in scenario 7. when you get all statues and the dragonheart is freed buff every drake unit (entity of the buff to be decided). you'll see why. I'll also spam the fire overlay, but it may be just me.
In the last scenario - old version at least - getting uluthur and then the dragonheart via teleport to menor 4 was virtually as difficult as winning the game, and it took almost the same time, so my suggestion is: make it one of the objectives, if not the main one. At that point extend the buff to menor and his troops.
Why do I suggest this changes? Rekindling dragon hearts was the main point of the campaign, and this way it reflects in the gameplay correctly. At that point you can change the objective to "kil the dwarf king and his guard".
Doing things this way would enable you to make the previous changes I suggested (to dwarf protector), while balancing the game so that menor's troops won't get slaughtered. This way ground troops - enforcers in particular - get to see more play. And since dwarfs are slow ground troops, and they spammed wind runes - which are one of the coolest mechanics I ever saw on Wesnoth - it makes kinda sense to fight them on the same ground in the final battle (while flying dragons provide a huge advantage in the northern and final part of the map, with all the lava tiles.
You could provide a hint to this the first or second time you meet dwarf protectors, like herkart saying "we'll need more shock troops to win this war if the enemy have got more of these", or as an advice in white in the scenario objectives.
IF you really want to make the campaign nightmare level you could even require that the four drakes to activate the runes in level 7 must be max level - but that would require even more changes to allow a player that didn't get them before - like more enemies and more gold, and an advice at the beggining of the scenario. I'm really not sure about this. still...

Personally, on the last 2 scenarios, the last in particular, I had more gold that I needed. I realize all I'm saying means more work for you, but you seem really motivated to improve your campaigns. kudos for that.
What else? If you ever think of going mainline, it would be worthwhile to think of a sequel, since there's bound to be a reaction from the Nornthern Alliance, that gets hardly mentioned in the epilogue. You could play Drakes, or N.A. side, it could even result in peace, or a truce, who knows. sure It'd be nice to play those swell knalgans troops, and I'd love to see some backstory of the oaken's stone. All I know is this campaign left me wanting for more (in a good way), and if all this intrigues you, well, we can hope ;)

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Paulomat4
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Re: Ashen Hearts [SP Drake Campaign for 1.12.6]

Post by Paulomat4 »

When Balancing the dwarf Kings hp also keep in mind that now that khazran can fly, he get's an Illumination Bonus that potentially increases his damage. I thought the old number of hitpoints was fine.

Regarding the buff of the Statue Drakes, maybe half of the original buff would be good. Increase their hp by 8-10, and their damages and Moves by 1.
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WhereIsBaodur
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Re: Ashen Hearts [SP Drake Campaign for 1.12.6]

Post by WhereIsBaodur »

Regardless of balance changes - they're always a pain - I'd change the mission objectives as I suggested. It'd add to the gameplay of the last scenario and the story element of the campaign, and it would be relatively easy to make - I think.
You got me excited so ideas keep coming to me, if you want to hear them let me know

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