Massive Online Multiplayer Senarios

[Midnight_Carnival]

yeah, my job.
I was enjoying being on holiday too.

No, I just read that you need 3 people and looked at the number of people who regularly post on this thread and it came to 3, so I guess I'm in.
Now what was it I signed up for again?

[Samonella]

yeah, my job.
I was enjoying being on holiday too.

No, I just read that you need 3 people and looked at the number of people who regularly post on this thread and it came to 3, so I guess I'm in.

Sorry, I was just concerned because the topic suddenly went quite for a week, just when things were starting to sound concrete.

Now what was it I signed up for again?

Well, nothing really. Take a look at what I've made so far; apparently attachments aren't allowed in off-topic forums, so I'll PM it.

It has the rock-paper-scissors teams set up, but no tools for changing alliances. Making those work like I was imagining will be harder over the network than in a hot seat game, and even harder if it's a mix. Testing that is what I'll especially need help with.
It also has the [tunnel]s set up so the world wraps around and the sides on the borders can get to each other easily. Unfortunately, if the ai can do it too, it takes a long time to move, so right now it only works for the human players.

So have you ever made add-ons or written wml? If not, have you ever wanted to learn wml? Basically, feel free to add whatever you want; a non-blank map would be good. Also, I mentioned using git-hub before, which I still think is a good idea; PMing every update will get old.

[The_Gnat]

I don't have that much extra time but i would also like to contribute to this! What can i do to help?

[Samonella]

Well, nothing really. Take a look at what I've made so far; apparently attachments aren't allowed in off-topic forums, so I'll PM it.
...
Also, I mentioned using git-hub before, which I still think is a good idea; PMing every update will get old.

Second update, and I'm already sick of it. Here is a link to a git-hub repository; from there anyone and everyone can download the scenario as it is so far. If you know how to use github and have an account, feel free to PM your username and I'll add you as a contributer; if not, just PM me any updates you make and I'll update the repo.

This second update (available at the link) includes options for changing diplomacies like I described earlier, except that instead of a right-click menu option, you change diplomacies by moving any unit onto a marked tile to open the dialogue. This is partly because it simplifies the code required by quite a lot (i'm not even sure if it's possible to do it the right-click way, if you want details on how it's complicated I'll elaborate). I -->*think*<-- that it -->*probably*<-- -->*should*<-- work over the network, but that's what I need help testing. It definitely works in local multiplayer.

I don't have that much extra time but i would also like to contribute to this! What can i do to help?

Same as I said to Midnight_Carnival, whatever you can/want to do. Since the basic mechanics seem to be mostly done now, the next big step is designing a good map and planning the challenges between the starting positions and the dragon.

EDIT: Oh btw, I definitely should have mentioned this before: what I've written so far is for 1.13.6. It definitely won't work in 1.12.

[The_Gnat]

Ok sounds good i will have a look at it!

[Paulomat4]

I'm Not Sure if I can/will contribute much, but i have a Bit of Free time atm and am always Interesses in mp scenarios, so I might be open for a few Test games. so just pm me, if you're making Test games .

[Midnight_Carnival]

Edit: I have some suggestions to make for the scenario, discussing these will decide how the map is grown. I don't know how to code in any of the suggestions, I haven't touched WML for a few years and it changed substantially since then, so let me know what you think and change whatever you like.

I'm going to start a map today and pass it around, we'll begin with rough details (mountains/water) and refine it as it goes.

Scenario... I want this to be simple so sorry nothing inventive on this one, but here's the "plot" I'm working on.

Teams = human (player) teams + 3 which are.

1) Eternal Dragon (may have to change name in case DBZ fans get angry )
2) Swamp Woses
3) Outcasts


Players have to vanquish the Eternal Dragon who goes to sleep for 1000 years 'coz he can't die and get an artefact.
Dragon has Drakes which it recruits and it regenerates at an alarming rate (as well as being very tough!)

Swamp Woses and Gryphons, Merfolk are forces of nature with wolves, etc.
Outcasts are human outlaw units, Ogres and Saurians.
For these two teams there is an interesting dynamic:
after 15 turns the leader vanishes and a new leader is spawned somewhere else. The leader is always a high level unit and even it it dies a new one will spawn after 15 turns.
If you defeat the leader you get a token which makes that faction allied to you for X turns.

Otherwise it's a bloodbath with overpowered Eternal Dragon forces and everybody else pretty much staying alive, cutting eachother's throats at the first opportune moment.

Please give criticism and suggestions for this scenario.

Map:
BIG. Somewhat random but with emphasis on giving each payer a chance regardless of where they randomly start, many empty castles for wose and outcast leaders to appear in.

Spoiler:

You can be a [censored] and put your units in empty castles so the "creep" leaders spawn next to your ...'friend'

...Let's get this party started

[Samonella]

Teams = human (player) teams + 3 which are.

1) Eternal Dragon (may have to change name in case DBZ fans get angry )
2) Swamp Woses
3) Outcasts

I like this idea! Will be tricky to get the balancing right (leaders are hard but not impossible to kill, having them on your side is useful but not overpowered) but it adds another chaotic element that I like the sound of!
On the note of balancing it, I assume you're planning to give the wose & outcast sides gold boosts each time they appear? Should they have income too, or mostly just the first rush?

Map:
BIG. Somewhat random but with emphasis on giving each payer a chance regardless of where they randomly start, many empty castles for wose and outcast leaders to appear in.

I was imagining this on a middle-to-small map, so you can start a game on the server and expect it to finish in no more than a couple hours. But hey, if you want to start making a giant, epic map I sure won't try to stop you! And I've been (and will continue) trying to make my code non-map specific, so once we have one scenario working we could easily make a few different maps that follow all the same basic rules. With that in mind, maybe it's best to do a small map first, to make testing easier?

One idea for making the map: maybe the scenario could start by randomly generating the map, then we add the features we want via wml? That's probably more trouble than it's worth though.

Oh, and an update on what I've added to github: I made a basic algorithm for giving the dragon's side gold. At the start of the scenario player 1 gets a dialogue box asking what percent of the human team's net worth (in-game units + unspent gold) the dragon should get each turn so we can easily test different percentages. Once we have an idea how hard each one makes the game we could translate them to 'difficulties' that player 1 choose between, like in Colosseum.

Finally, something I meant to say a while ago but forgot to: the scenario/add-on name is completely up for debate. I just made up "Dragon Lair" because I needed something to get the scenario working, but I don't really like it.

[Midnight_Carnival]

Wow, exited!

Ok, I´ll make 2 maps, a "small" one and an epic one!

On the note of balancing it, I assume you're planning to give the wose & outcast sides gold boosts each time they appear? Should they have income too, or mostly just the first rush?

Great minds think alike .
My idea was to either give them income not dependent on villages and a boost to gold when the old leader vanishes and the new one arises every 15 tuns (turn number up for debate) or to make new "creep-rushes", or to give them no income and a larger amount of gold every time.

The Eternal Dragon should have a ton of Gold and be able to recruit lv. 2 Drake units as well as being damn hard to kill.

Arise children of my blood. These newcomers mean me harm. Crush the pests! when their cities are naughty but ruins I shall prevail and your bloodline with me if you distinguish yourselves. Let your wings darken the skies, it shall rain fire today.

Names: can't think of any right now.
Anyway. the map...

[The_Gnat]

I really like your ideas Midnight Carnival!

Unfortunately i am currently do not have that much time and so i probably won't be able to contribute very much to this project right now, but i would still like to be involved.

With that said i really like the ideas which are being developed here! A few thoughts though:

- If at all possible the starting positions of the Woses and Outcasts should be randomized somewhat, in an attempt to make the map more unique each time it is played. This will also have the added advantage of forcing different alliances. (also maybe when a new leader spawns create a new castle for him and remove the previous castle they had)

- I would consider instead of only creating a castle for the Woses and Outcasts, and giving them gold to recruit, also have random move to events where woses or outlaws appear.

- Also another idea, you can bribe the outlaws? (pay them a large quantity of gold and they join your team for a period of time).

- Also maybe there should be random items in a few of the villages, similar to the storm trident in Dead Water, or the arcane bottles that frequent campaigns.

I look forward to see the map that is made! (also dragon lair is a good map name if you plan on having the dragon in the center of the map on a big mountain, and since the focus of the map is the dragon, the name should include him - maybe "The Dragons Realm", or "The land of the Dragon", or "Scorched Horizon", or "Where the Monster Roams", or "Land of Fire", or "The Lord of Fire", i could continue coming up with names if you would like)

[Samonella]

- If at all possible the starting positions of the Woses and Outcasts should be randomized somewhat, in an attempt to make the map more unique each time it is played. This will also have the added advantage of forcing different alliances. (also maybe when a new leader spawns create a new castle for him and remove the previous castle they had)

Not a bad idea; by creating a castle whenever they appear, they can appear truly anywhere instead of just randomly between a known set of castles (we could still only consider reasonable locations, like not the middle of a lake, of course). Either way, I do want scattered castles, since it would stink if your leader was rooted to the back lines the entire game long.

- I would consider instead of only creating a castle for the Woses and Outcasts, and giving them gold to recruit, also have random move to events where woses or outlaws appear.

I'm not sure what you mean here, could you re-phrase?

- Also another idea, you can bribe the outlaws? (pay them a large quantity of gold and they join your team for a period of time).

- Also maybe there should be random items in a few of the villages, similar to the storm trident in Dead Water, or the arcane bottles that frequent campaigns.

Or maybe you can bribe the other human player's units? 15 gold per level to steal them for a turn! Though personally I think we should be careful adding things like these; wesnoth is a reasonably complicated game in the first place, and adding too many little features could bog down the scenario IMO.

I look forward to see the map that is made! (also dragon lair is a good map name if you plan on having the dragon in the center of the map on a big mountain, and since the focus of the map is the dragon, the name should include him - maybe "The Dragons Realm", or "The land of the Dragon", or "Scorched Horizon", or "Where the Monster Roams", or "Land of Fire", or "The Lord of Fire", i could continue coming up with names if you would like)

Ooh, I like "Scorched Horizon." Though I disagree that the focus is on the dragon (who apparently speaks very ominously and poetically! ) I think it's on the "dirty, underhanded cooperative play," as Midnight_Carnival so aptly described it. If we could come up with a good name that advertises that aspect, i think it would be even better. (That's the reason I'm not a fan of "Dragon Liar").

[The_Gnat]

- I would consider instead of only creating a castle for the Woses and Outcasts, and giving them gold to recruit, also have random move to events where woses or outlaws appear.

I'm not sure what you mean here, could you re-phrase?

Basically i am saying we should create (as well as normal outcast and wose enemies) units that appear as you move through the map. (but the units that randomly appear would need to not be too powerful).

For example i am moving my unit through the swamp and suddenly a swamp wose appears. This could be done through moveto events. This new wose would be part of the wose team.

This would mean that the enemies you see are not the only enemies on the map. Another example could be moving to a village. Upon moving onto it a footpad and thief appear.

Ooh, I like "Scorched Horizon." Though I disagree that the focus is on the dragon (who apparently speaks very ominously and poetically! ) I think it's on the "dirty, underhanded cooperative play," as Midnight_Carnival so aptly described it. If we could come up with a good name that advertises that aspect, i think it would be even better. (That's the reason I'm not a fan of "Dragon Liar").

That is a good idea, what do you think of "Alliances are made to be broken" or "All is fair" or "Duplicity and Victory" or "Deception or Downfall" or "The storm of deceit" or "A dagger in the back" or "Friend and Foe" or "Rise of the Underhanded" or "Tricks and Treachery" or "Treacherous Horizon" or "A Duplicitous Infinity" or "The land of treachery" or "The bitter truth of allegiance" or "While your back is turned". That is many ideas. What do you believe is the best?

[Samonella]

Basically i am saying we should create (as well as normal outcast and wose enemies) units that appear as you move through the map. (but the units that randomly appear would need to not be too powerful).

Ok, so something like the orcs that appear in HttT Crossroads. Yeah, that could be good, especially in the last areas before the Eternal Dragon.

That is a good idea, what do you think of "Alliances are made to be broken" or "All is fair" or "Duplicity and Victory" or "Deception or Downfall" or "The storm of deceit" or "A dagger in the back" or "Friend and Foe" or "Rise of the Underhanded" or "Tricks and Treachery" or "Treacherous Horizon" or "A Duplicitous Infinity" or "The land of treachery" or "The bitter truth of allegiance" or "While your back is turned". That is many ideas. What do you believe is the best?

How do you come up with these so quickly? They're great! I like "The storm of deceit," or better yet a slight modification to "Storm of Deceit." I think "While your back is turned" is probably best of all, since it brings out the humorous part of the whole thing.

[The_Gnat]

How do you come up with these so quickly? They're great! I like "The storm of deceit," or better yet a slight modification to "Storm of Deceit." I think "While your back is turned" is probably best of all, since it brings out the humorous part of the whole thing.

Thank you very much. I agree "While your back is turned" is a good name.

[Midnight_Carnival]

The_Gnat: you have really good ideas which I think we might consider adding later on?
Right now we could look at making a "skeleton" and then refining it(? )
Things like castles appearing and disappearing would be amazing on a larger map and really add new elements to the game, but I'd like a few stationary castles where no leader starts off to add strategic elements. Anyway, we can talk about this soon.

Anyway, I made a small map out of a random one and realised it didn't work.

making another.

Shadows in the Flame?

edit:
sent S the first proto-map (small and not impressive) feel free to pass it around and make as many functional and cosmetic changes as you like, I'm not exactly proud of this one, it is a place holder.
The real maps (medium and epic) will be awesome though.