Massive Online Multiplayer Senarios

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Would you play this sort of senario?

I guess, if somebody else made it
12
44%
I would be interested in contributing to such senarios
3
11%
Depends what mood I was in
4
15%
I wish you luck but I couldn't care less
4
15%
I think this goes against the spirit of Wesnoth
4
15%
 
Total votes : 27

Re: Massive Online Multiplayer Senarios

Postby Samonella » April 29th, 2017, 6:04 pm

The_Gnat wrote:did you see my commits, What do you think?
I didn't look at the difficultyM branch, it still seems intuitive to me to just ask for the difficulty at scenario start. The Frans branch generally looks good, here are a couple things:
1) A tip for simpler code: last breath and die events store the killed/killer as unit/second_unit, and they work with speaker=
2) Are you testing your changes? In 1.13 (without Rich Marinaccio's dragon installed since it's not on the 1.13 server) the dragon doesn't have the default sprite, just that yellow 'image not found' thing. It also can't work in 1.12 because of the unit placed event (1.13.3) and more [option]label= in team_utils.cfg. Frankly, I'd say to give up on 1.12, since 1.14 will be out before long. Besides, that would mean we get to use the cool new desert mountains. 8)

The_Gnat wrote:I have added messages for the players, ai and dragons death.
Nice! I like the {RANDOM_MESSAGE} things, great idea. Do you mind if i edit some of the text? It's just style things, for example "Is that the best you've got?" is a very modern phrase that sticks out from the rest.

The_Gnat wrote:I have added a dragon death event which kills all the other leaders (except the victorious leader) and then ends the scenario. This way as soon as you kill the dragon the game ends
Also nice! It would be better if we didn't have to kill the leaders, since players may want to look over the post-game battlefield and it will seem odd if the leaders disappear. But that's just a detail, not important at all. And I can't think of a better way to end the scenario with the right teams winning/losing off the top of my head.

The_Gnat wrote:If you kill the outlaw or wose leader any other outlaw or wose unit is randomly selected and assigned as leader
Hm, any particular reason? Imo that would complicate the gameplay without really adding anything.

The_Gnat wrote:If you kill the dragon then it turns into a skeletal dragon and you have to kill it
Seems anticlimactic for the super awesome Rich Marinaccio dragon to turn into a common Skeletal Dragon.

The_Gnat wrote:After some turn (maybe turn 10) skeletons begin appearing out of evil stones in the top middle of the map
Evil stones isn't a bad idea. I'm not sure exactly how to make it work though; would a skeleton appear every turn? Several each turn? I just don't know how to balance it. Also, as far as the story goes, I can't think of a way for it to make sense. :lol: on that note, we also have no explanation for the bandits and wose/nature teams.

Another idea is to replace the wose/nature team with undead. I think this would be comparatively easy to balance, since the random appearances will make the undead a threat without them needing lots of troops to become seriously powerful.
Last edited by Samonella on April 30th, 2017, 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Massive Online Multiplayer Senarios

Postby Can-ned_Food » April 30th, 2017, 1:39 pm

Samonella wrote:Also nice! It would be better if we didn't have to kill the leaders, since players may want to look over the post-game battlefield and it will seem odd if the leaders disappear. But that's just a detail, not important at all. And I can't think of a better way to end the scenario with the right teams winning/losing off the top of my head.

I've not looked at the Gnat's code, but you can toggle a Side defeated while the leader is yet present on the field. The Concede_Defeat add–on does this.

Samonella wrote:
Can-ned_Food wrote:Why not use conditional preprocessing?

Are you sure that would work? I'd think preprocessing would happen long before sending code across the network. Aren't the scenarios compiled when you open the Choose Scenario dialogue? If so, it wouldn't make much sense to send an unprocessed copy... but i suppose it's possible. I don't really know anything about it, just guessing.

According to the Wesnoth Wiki, you are correct: the preprocessor is run on the host and the code generated is then sent to the clients.
The only workaround of which I can think would involve tricks with intermediary add–on bundles and symlinks.
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Re: Massive Online Multiplayer Senarios

Postby Ravana » April 30th, 2017, 2:31 pm

Can-ned_Food wrote:According to the Wesnoth Wiki, you are correct: the preprocessor is run on the host and the code generated is then sent to the clients.
The only workaround of which I can think would involve tricks with intermediary add–on bundles and symlinks.

Lua is executed on each client separately, so might be usable like https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/Agele ... ck.cfg#L17
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Re: Massive Online Multiplayer Senarios

Postby The_Gnat » May 5th, 2017, 9:46 pm

We could argue that the Woses (and swamp dwellers) and the Outcasts live in awe of the Dragon ;) and are its loyal minions because one of the following:

A. the lust for the massive treasure holds them in the valley
B. the Dragon ate so many of their comrades they tremble at its breath and obey its every command
C. they have no were else to go and being part of the 'army' of such a great creature makes them feel valuable

So i don't believe it is necessary to replace either faction. However, as for the skeletons i was thinking after turn 10 (or something around that) every turn a few skeletons would come out of each stone. The number of skeletons (and the level of skeletons) could be either determined by a off-map castle in which we have an AI leader recruit random units, or we could put them on depending on the difficulty and the number of sides left.

Frankly, I'd say to give up on 1.12, since 1.14 will be out before long. Besides, that would mean we get to use the cool new desert mountains. 8)


The only reason i would rather not do that yet is because their still are (or seem to be) more people playing 1.12 than 1.13 so i think when we first release this add-on (which really should have happened already) we should make it available for both. Then players who play 1.12 only will have a chance to see our add-on. Of course when 1.14 is released we will stop support for 1.12.

@ Can-ned-food - I will have a look at the Concede-Defeat add-on. Thank you!

@ Samonella - I am going to delete the Frans branch and create a new branch in which i will try to:

- Support players who have not installed the Rich-Mar...(i forgot his name) Dragon with a per-proccessor statement
- Not kill the leaders but instead concede defeat

After this change i suggest we test the mod to ensure it is stable and then release it as a beta version.

We can add the undead once we have discussed it more. (i think probably 4 lvl 1 undead/turn (for EASY) 2 lvl 1 & 2 lvl 2 undead/turn (for MEDIUM) 3 lvl 1 & 3 lvl 2 (for HARD) and then -1 if a player dies)
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Re: Massive Online Multiplayer Senarios

Postby Can-ned_Food » May 7th, 2017, 1:43 pm

The_Gnat wrote:The only reason i would rather not do that yet is because their still are (or seem to be) more people playing 1.12 than 1.13


1.12 is the edition provided with the GNU Debian Stable Distribution. Furthermore, changing to 1.13 involves a lot of work with Dpkg for re-installing libraries, later versions of dependents, and such.
That is probably why so many people use 12.

Ravana wrote:Lua is executed on each client separately, so might be usable like https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/Agele ... ck.cfg#L17


That could work: a [scenario] [lua] code= added to a preparatory forerunner for the campaign — or to the singlular scenarios.
How would Wesnoth's engine handle each client running a different version of a [unit_type] with same id= each? We would need to test it for OOS.
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Re: Massive Online Multiplayer Senarios

Postby Midnight_Carnival » May 7th, 2017, 3:26 pm

The_Gnat wrote:We could argue that the Woses (and swamp dwellers) and the Outcasts live in awe of the Dragon ;) and are its loyal minions because one of the following:

A. the lust for the massive treasure holds them in the valley
B. the Dragon ate so many of their comrades they tremble at its breath and obey its every command
C. they have no were else to go and being part of the 'army' of such a great creature makes them feel valuable


Ok, I agree with no need to replace either faction, but respectfully disagree on points A and C, only partially agreeing on B...

The Swamp Woses are a throwback to a time when the world was governed by the wild (fae) forces of nature - in most other regions of the world Mages have obliterated these spirits as at best they are highly unpredictable and at worst they are inherrantly hostile to humanity, orcs, dwarves and sometimes even elves (unless the elves totally hippie out). The Eternal Dragon would sense any Mage powerful enough to destroy the wild nature spirits and attack while awake. It is assumed that while "dead", the Dragon can not kill the Mages who were able to severely limit the power of the Wild Nature spirits in the region (it sleeps for a thousand years once "killed") - this is why you don't have to deal with full on Daevas, Titans and Elementals, only Swamp Woses.
The Woses are grateful to the Dragon for keeping their area wild and relatively free of the influence of other races, but they don't love or worship it because it is an inherently destructive creature who's fire obliterates wildlife and intelligent races alike. The certainly don't see themselves as "part of it's army" because they are the last vestiges of the army of Wild Earth Spirits, it is it's own army.

Like the Swamp Woses, the Outcasts are here because of the protection afforded by the Dragon. They are a mixed bunch of rag-tag scoundrels, misfits (and half-breeds?) from many races. Unlike the Swamp Woses, they are here not because the presence of the Dragon discourages the influence of Mages, but because the Dragon makes establishing any large cities nearby... risky.
I think that the Dragon sleeps for on average a thousand years, but he might awaken sooner if disturbed by a very powerful Mage or the establishment of a large bustling city.
It can be assumed that in Wesnoth hybrid (remember, they need not be full on 1/2 and 1/2, it could be a human with 1/8th orc blood and still be seen as a hybrid) or those who want to live totally outside the largely race(species!) based civilisations are not welcomed. Small enclaves of Outcasts live all over in anywhere too remote to actually be worth people eradicating them, but around the Dragon's home, they are able to form larger, slightly more organised communities.
Again, Outcasts do not see themselves as part of the Dragon's army, they are like rats who live in the alligator-infested sewers. The rats don't worship the alligators or see themselves as little alligators, but the presence of these large reptiles discourages predators and humans who want to eradicate them and if they are fast, clever and lucky, the rats might be able to poach a few scraps when the 'gators make a kill.

As for the Eternal Dragon returning as a Skellidragon... NO!
the Dragon CAN NOT BE KILLED, hence it can not return as undead. Once "killed" the Dragon turns into an almost indestructible stone Dragon and "sleeps" for up to a thousand years.

Undead could easily exist in the area because Necromancy is unwelcome in Wesnoth and Necormancers, Dark Sorcerers and even minor Liches would find refuge. Once they did, they would find the are overflowing with corpses and necro-energies. Kind of like a smalltime street gang stumbling across the arms cache of a powerful terrorist organisation trying to overthrow the government.
the Undead don't have to be there, but there presence is not only understandable, it is quite in keeping with the overall theme and plot as it has been established so far.
Of course a huge army of Undead or a powerful Ancient Lich would immediately attract the attention of the Eternal Dragon who would awaken early and ...well, fire attacks vs Undead...

Well, that's just my opinion anyway.

:D Very glad this is still going. Send me scenarios which need dialogue and I'll churn out several things the characters could say.
I think the Dragon is like over the top with his theatrics.
...apparenly we can't go with it or something.
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MOMS Unfriendly Dragon Company

Postby Can-ned_Food » May 8th, 2017, 12:02 pm

I like it, MC.

Question: As of now, does this project really deserve to be called a MOMS?
It seems that the idea of having a quasi-persistent Wesnoth scenario was rather gently discarded while the other aspects — those which were to operate under the auspices of the MOMS — were continued.
It seems that it has forked.
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Re: Massive Online Multiplayer Senarios

Postby Midnight_Carnival » May 8th, 2017, 2:04 pm

:whistle: Call it whatever you like.

I explained earlier that the "massive" was a play on words as I originally envisaged the maps being a lot larger than they appear in the presently being developed iterations (I shouldn't complain since I made the pizza map myself [which was edited] :lol: )

I asked a question but I've actually done very little to help this scenario along. At this stage of my life I have neither the time and energy, nor the coding skillzzz to create the sort of scenario I envisaged. The_Gnat and Samonella as well as a few others are the ones making it (and doing a much better job than I'd have done as far as I can see!) and I have intentionally limited my creative influence because otherwise it would just feel too much like getting people to make things for me. I'll offer a few thematic suggestions and even a little content if asked.

But yes, I named the thread and other people are making the scenario, if there is a discrepancy it is because I never really imagined anyone would want to make such a thing :lol:

As for the fork... I don't know and I don't have an opinion.
...apparenly we can't go with it or something.
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Re: Massive Online Multiplayer Senarios

Postby Ravana » May 8th, 2017, 2:17 pm

Seems that this has turned from off-topic to something more on-topic. Let me know if you want it moved somewhere else.
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Re: Massive Online Multiplayer Senarios

Postby The_Gnat » May 12th, 2017, 9:52 pm

@Midnight Carnival - yes i agree with your ideas

@Ravana - Yes it probably would be good if it was moved to the scenario and campaign development.

@Can-ned food - Yes it has not really been created as i originally imagined. ;) However, it is very good!

@ Everyone - I personally see this as almost done go to this link and download the 2-DM version of the Dragons Lair and then tell me what you think. I personally am ready to upload this to the 1.12 and 1.13 add-on servers.
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Re: Massive Online Multiplayer Senarios

Postby Samonella » May 18th, 2017, 1:36 am

Sorry that I dipped out at the exact moment I said I'd be getting involved again. Unfortunately, life and stuff. :roll: So even though I would like to test and balance it much more, I think I'd better leave this project to you others. Good luck with it!
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Re: Massive Online Multiplayer Senarios

Postby Midnight_Carnival » May 18th, 2017, 3:38 pm

The_Gnat wrote:@Can-ned food - Yes it has not really been created as i originally imagined. ;) However, it is very good!

@ Everyone - I personally see this as almost done go to this link and download the 2-DM version of the Dragons Lair and then tell me what you think. I personally am ready to upload this to the 1.12 and 1.13 add-on servers.


Yaaaaaaaaay! :D :D :D :D :D
I can't wait.

Also, all the ideas which were not included are things people could consider including in similar scenarios or late versions. I personally think that this will inspire Wesnoth multiplayer scenarios to grow in exiting new directions. Major respect and huge gratitude to The Gnat and everyone else who contributed.
I'll see you on around the dragon mountain ;)
...apparenly we can't go with it or something.
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Re: Massive Online Multiplayer Senarios

Postby The_Gnat » May 19th, 2017, 5:57 am

Great! Please post and tell any feedback and i then i will move ahead and create a add-on for this scenario.

(@midnight carnival - are you still interested in creating a larger map for this scenario?)
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Re: Massive Online Multiplayer Senarios

Postby Midnight_Carnival » May 20th, 2017, 9:34 am

Of course-

Tell me what kind of map you had in mind
...apparenly we can't go with it or something.
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Re: Massive Online Multiplayer Senarios

Postby Midnight_Carnival » May 20th, 2017, 5:39 pm

Ok.
I'm going to make you a much larger pizza map and I´m going to make a circular map, you can see which one you prefer.
It will take time, so please be patient.
...apparenly we can't go with it or something.
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