Genesis 0.2.3 [1.12/1.14] [Ep 1 complete]

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
User avatar
ElderofCheese
Posts: 349
Joined: July 11th, 2015, 2:13 pm

Re: Genesis

Post by ElderofCheese » September 29th, 2017, 7:59 pm

I on the other hand liked the concencration on the main characters, in other campaigns it doesn't get to this level, it makes this campaign stand out and I think it was good the way it was. And that is one of the reasons why I like it so much.

On hard the campaign already was pretty hard, with these changes the increase in the difficulty would be quite considerable. I finished it on hard, the first scenario I would describe as very hard, it might be the hardest in the entire campaign (the other hard one I can name was I think it was library in the city of men where you had to fight undead to close the portal), without some cheese with Esther and her slipping through the lines AND then leveling up during the fight with the demonic henchmen leader it may be impossible to finish it. I think that it may be possible doing it a bit differently but I am pretty sure it would require quite a lot of luck and certainly perfect play.

The other scenarios, they can also be a bit tricky if you overestimate the resistance of your faes which can get killed pretty easily, especially yumi although Esther can as well against strong units. But Yumi has a very high level up potential, early in the game Esther is stronger, but feeding xp to the fire girl is in fact not even close to the optimal strategy, first because then Yumi is left very weak and second because Yumi after upgrades can deal way more damage than Esther and can also become tankier with upgrades. Although it might be true that her woid assault attack was being often neglected I can see that as I myself didn't bother with taking any upgrades for it, It just seems not worth it, although you might deal more raw damage with it, it doesn't have magical nor drain making it less useful overall. If I am right it also has slow which again is not that good because what you are aiming for when using Yumi on the target is to kill it, so slow is not that big of a game changer. Its just less versatile, and the difference in dealt damage is not that nigh. Also I think that the fact that void assault's damage is not shown directly, but rather partially concealed within a quirky ability may have contributed to the faerie fire's popularity.
If her stats were changed then I am interested to see how much better the void assault is, I am pretty sure that now it will be better and will be a good option, however, there is a thing. If you want to make both attacks equally good options to develop, or at least roughly equal without making one or the other overpowered, I am quite sure one of them (siphon) considering the likely playstyle might still be favored, and it is ok. There is not much that can be done with it, that is why, even now that the both attacks arent equally good in their potential I do not mind void assault being an alternative option rarely used (but used rarely, I used it like few times in the entire campaign XD) and fire faerie used most of the time. If I have one good attack im happy with it.

At the end of the playable scenarios my Yumi got very strong, coupled with her nice abilities she can do a lot of work, for example the clairvoyance ability which makes her virtually omnipresent (but also it is the most lagging wesnoth ability ever, but I can live with some lag it causes) I forgot to say a word about Aryel, her concept to me seems like something in-between Esther and Yumi and I like that (like the other faes) but I think she has one ability which allowed for exploits, especially during the last scenario where you are to catch Yumi. Due to lack of turns limit and infinite supply of level 3 enemies if you are patient enough you can increase her melee damage indefinitely, but it seems you are going to fixt that with time limit so its fine.

But I can happily test the new difficulty.
@Elder but we have asked for the disclosure of all the cheese and we treat it seriously. Everyone on this site can get banned, everyone.
@Elder ale prosiliśmy o wyjawianie wszystkich serów i traktujemy to poważnie. Każdy na tej stronie może zostać zbanowany, każdy.

- Sagez

User avatar
nemaara
Posts: 136
Joined: May 31st, 2015, 2:13 am

Re: Genesis

Post by nemaara » September 30th, 2017, 12:51 am

ElderofZion wrote:I on the other hand liked the concencration on the main characters, in other campaigns it doesn't get to this level, it makes this campaign stand out and I think it was good the way it was. And that is one of the reasons why I like it so much.

On hard the campaign already was pretty hard, with these changes the increase in the difficulty would be quite considerable. I finished it on hard, the first scenario I would describe as very hard, it might be the hardest in the entire campaign (the other hard one I can name was I think it was library in the city of men where you had to fight undead to close the portal), without some cheese with Esther and her slipping through the lines AND then leveling up during the fight with the demonic henchmen leader it may be impossible to finish it. I think that it may be possible doing it a bit differently but I am pretty sure it would require quite a lot of luck and certainly perfect play.

The other scenarios, they can also be a bit tricky if you overestimate the resistance of your faes which can get killed pretty easily, especially yumi although Esther can as well against strong units. But Yumi has a very high level up potential, early in the game Esther is stronger, but feeding xp to the fire girl is in fact not even close to the optimal strategy, first because then Yumi is left very weak and second because Yumi after upgrades can deal way more damage than Esther and can also become tankier with upgrades. Although it might be true that her woid assault attack was being often neglected I can see that as I myself didn't bother with taking any upgrades for it, It just seems not worth it, although you might deal more raw damage with it, it doesn't have magical nor drain making it less useful overall. If I am right it also has slow which again is not that good because what you are aiming for when using Yumi on the target is to kill it, so slow is not that big of a game changer. Its just less versatile, and the difference in dealt damage is not that nigh. Also I think that the fact that void assault's damage is not shown directly, but rather partially concealed within a quirky ability may have contributed to the faerie fire's popularity.
If her stats were changed then I am interested to see how much better the void assault is, I am pretty sure that now it will be better and will be a good option, however, there is a thing. If you want to make both attacks equally good options to develop, or at least roughly equal without making one or the other overpowered, I am quite sure one of them (siphon) considering the likely playstyle might still be favored, and it is ok. There is not much that can be done with it, that is why, even now that the both attacks arent equally good in their potential I do not mind void assault being an alternative option rarely used (but used rarely, I used it like few times in the entire campaign XD) and fire faerie used most of the time. If I have one good attack im happy with it.

At the end of the playable scenarios my Yumi got very strong, coupled with her nice abilities she can do a lot of work, for example the clairvoyance ability which makes her virtually omnipresent (but also it is the most lagging wesnoth ability ever, but I can live with some lag it causes) I forgot to say a word about Aryel, her concept to me seems like something in-between Esther and Yumi and I like that (like the other faes) but I think she has one ability which allowed for exploits, especially during the last scenario where you are to catch Yumi. Due to lack of turns limit and infinite supply of level 3 enemies if you are patient enough you can increase her melee damage indefinitely, but it seems you are going to fixt that with time limit so its fine.

But I can happily test the new difficulty.
This is exactly why I tweaked the abilities because if you put all your points into faerie fire, it leaves you with few options against bosses.

The difficulty in hard mode is meant to be very high, and mostly it requires you to be very strict about your positioning. However, I do agree that the first scenario is too hard, so I already made that easier. Anyway, I will make a post when it's ready to be playtested (right now there are still a few things that need to be done first).

I'm not changing the focus on the main characters, but I do think that adding some side characters is nice. So maybe I can do both? We'll see.

User avatar
ElderofCheese
Posts: 349
Joined: July 11th, 2015, 2:13 pm

Re: Genesis

Post by ElderofCheese » September 30th, 2017, 12:52 pm

I could ofc playtest it.

Considering the campaign so far it is disputable whether somebody who has already played through it could care much about new side characters but regardless how it will go I want to see more of this amazing story.
@Elder but we have asked for the disclosure of all the cheese and we treat it seriously. Everyone on this site can get banned, everyone.
@Elder ale prosiliśmy o wyjawianie wszystkich serów i traktujemy to poważnie. Każdy na tej stronie może zostać zbanowany, każdy.

- Sagez

User avatar
nemaara
Posts: 136
Joined: May 31st, 2015, 2:13 am

Re: Genesis

Post by nemaara » October 4th, 2017, 3:04 am

Okay, I've updated enough things for the campaign to be playtested (but there are still 2 more scenarios to finish - well, more like 1.5 - before the next release). Anyone interested can PM me for details, or you can find me on discord or IRC.

User avatar
nemaara
Posts: 136
Joined: May 31st, 2015, 2:13 am

Re: Genesis

Post by nemaara » November 2nd, 2017, 3:14 am

Version 0.0.9 is released. (Sorry for the delay!)

In it are 3 new playable scenarios, a lot of balancing, text changes, and bug fixing in old scenarios, and an extra scenario just for player convenience. You will need to also get the new version of Genesis Resources to play this version. There is a list of changes in a previous post for reference. Again, it is recommended to play from the beginning to ensure that nothing breaks horribly, but if you want to use an old save, it might (or might not) work.

A couple of the new scenarios are likely to be buggy (especially S13, maybe S14), so please let me know if you find anything.

Finally, a tip for one of the scenarios:
Spoiler:

Rhylla
Posts: 20
Joined: March 6th, 2013, 1:38 am

Re: Genesis

Post by Rhylla » November 8th, 2017, 4:54 am

Hi,

I'm in Iron Crescent and I'm stuck on...I think the third or fourth cycle. It's the one with
Spoiler:
I've spent like a half an hour on that one cycle already and it's getting sad lol. At this point, I'm so uncertain about everything I think I just need the full order :oops:

I love this campaign! The story and script is really well-written and pleasing to read. You have great characterization and character development, and the plot is unfolding nicely. I really love the relationships between the three main characters: you know Esther and Aryel care about Yumi, but they don't always put her before their responsibilities (like making sure the others are okay) or cater to her every need- but neither do they dismiss her or act awkward when she lets something drop. It's very realistic and sweet.

User avatar
nemaara
Posts: 136
Joined: May 31st, 2015, 2:13 am

Re: Genesis

Post by nemaara » November 8th, 2017, 6:05 pm

Rhylla wrote:Hi,

I'm in Iron Crescent and I'm stuck on...I think the third or fourth cycle. It's the one with
Spoiler:
I've spent like a half an hour on that one cycle already and it's getting sad lol. At this point, I'm so uncertain about everything I think I just need the full order :oops:

I love this campaign! The story and script is really well-written and pleasing to read. You have great characterization and character development, and the plot is unfolding nicely. I really love the relationships between the three main characters: you know Esther and Aryel care about Yumi, but they don't always put her before their responsibilities (like making sure the others are okay) or cater to her every need- but neither do they dismiss her or act awkward when she lets something drop. It's very realistic and sweet.
Spoiler:
Thanks for the comment! Hopefully the gameplay isn't too bad either.

Rhylla
Posts: 20
Joined: March 6th, 2013, 1:38 am

Re: Genesis

Post by Rhylla » November 9th, 2017, 4:24 pm

nemaara wrote:
Rhylla wrote:Hi,

I'm in Iron Crescent and I'm stuck on...I think the third or fourth cycle. It's the one with
Spoiler:
I've spent like a half an hour on that one cycle already and it's getting sad lol. At this point, I'm so uncertain about everything I think I just need the full order :oops:

I love this campaign! The story and script is really well-written and pleasing to read. You have great characterization and character development, and the plot is unfolding nicely. I really love the relationships between the three main characters: you know Esther and Aryel care about Yumi, but they don't always put her before their responsibilities (like making sure the others are okay) or cater to her every need- but neither do they dismiss her or act awkward when she lets something drop. It's very realistic and sweet.
Spoiler:
Thanks for the comment! Hopefully the gameplay isn't too bad either.
Yes, that was the correct order. Thank you! I didn't quite catch that one didn't have to have every single item in the order- like for that cycle, there were seven or eight items, but I only had to use four. I didn't actually realize that until you told me.
Yeah, your gameplay is great as well! I didn't mention it bc I didn't think I was as qualified to say stuff about it as some of the people who've said stuff previously, who played through the entire thing on hard. I've only ever done the easiest difficulty, although I might try and ramp it up one day- who knows?

Out of the three main characters, Yumi's definitely the most powerful, but her lower hp make it so she's not overpowered. Her Clairvoiyance is extremely useful. I kind of wish Aryel's healing didn't start at 3 hp per turn, but it isn't too hard to get her the advancements necessary to get it higher, so I'm not complaining (also, it's very nice that she can use it on herself as well). Esther's probably the weakest of the three, especially without the bonuses you can get in the city. With the bonuses, though, she does manage to hold her own. I found that her usefulness started out high in earlier scenarios, then gradually lessened as I leveled Yumi and Aryel up, as well as once I started getting Dryads.

I'll say one more thing before I end this comment: even though they sometimes frustrated me, I really did like that you put puzzles into play. It was a change from usual Wesnothian coding, but it wasn't an unwelcome one at least in my part. I think it served as a good break from the strategic thought needed in all the fighting.
All in all, this is a really well done campaign. You should be very proud.

User avatar
nemaara
Posts: 136
Joined: May 31st, 2015, 2:13 am

Re: Genesis

Post by nemaara » November 10th, 2017, 6:11 am

Rhylla wrote:Yeah, your gameplay is great as well! I didn't mention it bc I didn't think I was as qualified to say stuff about it as some of the people who've said stuff previously, who played through the entire thing on hard. I've only ever done the easiest difficulty, although I might try and ramp it up one day- who knows?

Out of the three main characters, Yumi's definitely the most powerful, but her lower hp make it so she's not overpowered. Her Clairvoiyance is extremely useful. I kind of wish Aryel's healing didn't start at 3 hp per turn, but it isn't too hard to get her the advancements necessary to get it higher, so I'm not complaining (also, it's very nice that she can use it on herself as well). Esther's probably the weakest of the three, especially without the bonuses you can get in the city. With the bonuses, though, she does manage to hold her own. I found that her usefulness started out high in earlier scenarios, then gradually lessened as I leveled Yumi and Aryel up, as well as once I started getting Dryads.
Don't worry about being qualified or whatnot. My guess is that most people play on easy and medium, but both I and ElderofZion playtest on hard mode, so the more feedback I get about the easier difficulties, the better I can balance those ones (to be not as super hard as hard mode is).

I actually felt that Esther was pretty strong on my last playthrough, but this may have had to do with the advancement path I took. You're supposed to get the bonuses, though, since otherwise the later scenarios can be a little bit hard. :lol:

Also curious to see that you got some Dryads. Not that they're bad, but since many scenarios are chaotic, people seem to prefer the eventide line from what I can tell. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ThomasKyd
Posts: 1
Joined: December 1st, 2017, 4:35 am

Re: Genesis

Post by ThomasKyd » December 1st, 2017, 4:45 am

Greetings,

I'm also stuck on Iron Crescent.
Spoiler:
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

User avatar
nemaara
Posts: 136
Joined: May 31st, 2015, 2:13 am

Re: Genesis

Post by nemaara » December 2nd, 2017, 12:42 am

ThomasKyd wrote:Greetings,

I'm also stuck on Iron Crescent.
Spoiler:
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Maybe the puzzle's too convoluted. :oops:

But, you're on the right track.
Spoiler:

User avatar
nemaara
Posts: 136
Joined: May 31st, 2015, 2:13 am

Re: Genesis

Post by nemaara » January 23rd, 2018, 8:23 am

Version 0.0.10 is released.

First... there is a rather major bug that happened that I didn't realize existed until this update :doh:. Apparently I accidentally killed all the units in the recall list at the end of S14, so basically it got rid of your whole army. I fixed it, but that means that you will have to replay S14 (Iron Crescent), or debug your way through it, or if you feel confident in your abilities, play on without your army (it is doable, but not recommended). Sorry about that... t_t.

Anyway, there are two new scenarios that have only been playtested by me (on hard mode), so they are not likely to be terribly balanced. Please let me know if you encounter any bugs or have suggestions for balancing. In particular, S15 is probably very difficult (and is intended to be so), so just keep that in mind.

sreesreearul
Posts: 110
Joined: February 18th, 2013, 12:55 pm

Re: Genesis

Post by sreesreearul » February 1st, 2018, 8:32 am

I am not able to proceed beyond Northlands, after finishing each side quest the game is wesnoth engine is crashing instead of loading northland_map again.

Running the game on ubuntu 17.04 wesnoth 1.13. Wondering if this is a compatibility issue. I did try deleting save index, cache and saves but nothing worked.

I am appending the log below.

Battle for Wesnoth v1.13.8
Started on Thu Feb 1 14:18:08 2018


Data directory: /usr/share/games/wesnoth/1.13
User configuration directory: /home/xxxx/.config/wesnoth
User data directory: /home/xxxxl/.local/share/wesnoth/1.13
Cache directory: /home/xxxx/.cache/wesnoth

Setting mode to 1366x744
Checking lua scripts... ok
20180201 14:18:09 error general: Unknown key: page up
20180201 14:18:09 error general: Unknown key: page down
20180201 14:18:13 error config: Multiple [unit_type]s with id=Demon Void Shambler encountered.
20180201 14:18:13 error scripting/lua: In function lua_kernel::run(): Lua Error:
When executing, Lua runtime error: ~add-ons/Genesis/lua/lib.lua:102: variable 'PROJECT_Y_RECONSTRUCTION_VERSION' must be assigned before being used
stack traceback:
: in function '.error'
lua/ilua.lua:132: in metamethod '__index'
~add-ons/Genesis/lua/lib.lua:102: in main chunk
[C]: in field 'dofile'
[string "..."]:28: in main chunk
Segmentation fault (core dumped)

sreesreearul
Posts: 110
Joined: February 18th, 2013, 12:55 pm

Re: Genesis

Post by sreesreearul » February 1st, 2018, 9:52 am

I could find Aryel and then come back to northlands, though. But even with Aryel the game crashed to desktop upon finishing lady of lake. I didn't try any other side quest. The corresponding log is same as above.

User avatar
nemaara
Posts: 136
Joined: May 31st, 2015, 2:13 am

Re: Genesis

Post by nemaara » February 2nd, 2018, 12:16 am

sreesreearul wrote:I am not able to proceed beyond Northlands, after finishing each side quest the game is wesnoth engine is crashing instead of loading northland_map again.

Running the game on ubuntu 17.04 wesnoth 1.13. Wondering if this is a compatibility issue. I did try deleting save index, cache and saves but nothing worked.

I am appending the log below.

Battle for Wesnoth v1.13.8
Started on Thu Feb 1 14:18:08 2018


Data directory: /usr/share/games/wesnoth/1.13
User configuration directory: /home/xxxx/.config/wesnoth
User data directory: /home/xxxxl/.local/share/wesnoth/1.13
Cache directory: /home/xxxx/.cache/wesnoth

Setting mode to 1366x744
Checking lua scripts... ok
20180201 14:18:09 error general: Unknown key: page up
20180201 14:18:09 error general: Unknown key: page down
20180201 14:18:13 error config: Multiple [unit_type]s with id=Demon Void Shambler encountered.
20180201 14:18:13 error scripting/lua: In function lua_kernel::run(): Lua Error:
When executing, Lua runtime error: ~add-ons/Genesis/lua/lib.lua:102: variable 'PROJECT_Y_RECONSTRUCTION_VERSION' must be assigned before being used
stack traceback:
: in function '.error'
lua/ilua.lua:132: in metamethod '__index'
~add-ons/Genesis/lua/lib.lua:102: in main chunk
[C]: in field 'dofile'
[string "..."]:28: in main chunk
Segmentation fault (core dumped)[/quote]

This campaign isn't technically supported for Wesnoth 1.13. That being said, I feel like there isn't any reason the WML portion shouldn't work on 1.13, but certainly the lua (which I 'borrowed' from shadowm :lol:) may have some trouble. My advice is to play on 1.12. However, if you really really want to play on 1.13, that's fine, but you will most definitely encounter a bunch of bugs. I can attempt to fix them as they pop up, but you will need to give me your save files in order for me to properly diagnose the bugs. Also, you will need to know how to use git and get the updated version each time from github when I fix each bug.

(Long story short, easier to play on 1.12 ^.^)

Post Reply