A Whim of Fate [SP Campaign]

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white_haired_uncle
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Re: A Whim of Fate [SP Campaign]

Post by white_haired_uncle » January 11th, 2019, 12:44 am

Scenario 4: eleminating > eliminating. "must wooden fences" is missing a verb.
WARNING: I suck at BFW, I'm usually barely paying attention, and I often like to try stupid things just to see what happens. Then I cheat. Watching my replays is known to the State of California to cause permanent mental injury.

Konrad2
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Re: A Whim of Fate [SP Campaign]

Post by Konrad2 » January 11th, 2019, 1:27 am

I had planned to let my elf go ahead, but because of some ambush that didn't quite work out for me.
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Aldarisvet
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Re: A Whim of Fate [SP Campaign]

Post by Aldarisvet » January 11th, 2019, 7:34 pm

Konrad2 wrote:
January 11th, 2019, 1:27 am
I had planned to let my elf go ahead, but because of some ambush that didn't quite work out for me.
Well, not bad played. There were some moments when some of your heroes could be killed for sure, but in general you played almost as I designed.
This scenario is about classical frontline&rotate&heal system that I hate most in mainline campaigns because most of mainline campaign is about this monotone tactics.

But I made this scenario with an Idea: what if you have to defend against an invisible enemy? How you would hold a frontline then?
You see that the enemy is totally invisible. There are 3 classical round 7-hex camps the enemy have but you cannot see camps and leaders. Camp tiles transformed to the forest, and encampment keep tiles transformed to Great Trees. Really, why Wose leaders should need a wooden camp (as in some scenario of mainline campaign)? This is not only totally useless, but highly unnatural, like if humans would make their camps from bones of humans.

So main idea was to hold a frontline, but with an original way. The safest way. The frontline if formed by obtuse angle and in Gorandor must be always in the point of the angle. So only Gorandor may be attacked from 3 sides and others from 2. This is because AI too stupid to create such tactics as circumvent and attack from behind.

white_haired_uncle wrote:
January 11th, 2019, 12:44 am
Scenario 4: eleminating > eliminating. "must wooden fences" is missing a verb.
Thank you. I'll fix in next release. Pls do not hesitate to report about other grammar mistakes :oops:


EDIT:
Version 1.0.0ca uploaded on both 1.12 and 1.14 servers.
Fixed issues with crown images of heroes ("no image found error" in the debug mode), added old route points in prologue maps of scenarios and also fixed non-working attack animations in 1.14 (animatios like thunderstrike attacks were not working just after dialogue messages if you woudnt put a delay after that messages).

EDIT2:
Konrad2, I rewatched your replay of Steady dwarves scenario. I must confess that at the time I watched it first I did it only for about 20 turns. Everything was ok to that moment and I was busy to fix all bugs of the campaign. So I write that you played it as I supposed. But after rewatching I found that it was really epic battle for you, you had to retreat with Velendar from south. You had strong-willed victory in the end. Truly in this scenario it the moment when the north emeny leader starts sending south so Velendar and his army of zombies is in big trouble. But often I do not have so much trouble. I send Gorandor south he helps zombies with his leadership greatly. Zaryal also fights south. Others easely block eastern passage.

EDIT3:
Version 1.0.1 uploaded to both 1.12 and 1.14 servers. Changed resistances for Mounted peasant (he will have resistances as usual peasants but movement costs and defences as of human cavalry, but I added 1 HP for compensation), changed terrain in scenario with gryphons and made changes in scenario "Winged forests" so it would be really impossible to defend the initial camp and to win without retreat.
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Konrad2
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Re: A Whim of Fate [SP Campaign]

Post by Konrad2 » January 16th, 2019, 8:54 pm

Once more I can recall some units I shouldn't be able to recall.
I mean sure, I'm unable to recall them, but they are still in my recall list and will probably missing on the map once I arrive somewhere where they are supposed to be. :(
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Aldarisvet
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Re: A Whim of Fate [SP Campaign]

Post by Aldarisvet » January 16th, 2019, 11:07 pm

Konrad2 wrote:
January 16th, 2019, 8:54 pm
Once more I can recall some units I shouldn't be able to recall.
I mean sure, I'm unable to recall them, but they are still in my recall list and will probably missing on the map once I arrive somewhere where they are supposed to be. :(
I cant understand what is the problem?
Velendar cannot recall them, is not he? I made a filtering on his recall list. Solaevin and saurian hero can recruit/recall White mages and saurians respectively.
How do you see your recall list if you cannot recall them?
Only one of these heroes will appear laterly in the final cut-scene (I saw no problem with it). Others I can simply kill.
What you suggest to do?

Also
Aldarisvet wrote:
January 11th, 2019, 7:34 pm
and made changes in scenario "Winged forests" so it would be really impossible to defend the initial camp and to win without retreat.
to my surprise one player from the Russian community proved that the statement above is wrong. Need something to do again.
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Re: A Whim of Fate [SP Campaign]

Post by Konrad2 » January 17th, 2019, 4:19 pm

I suggest you somehow find a way to avoid this for for future players. :)

Quickblade (revised unit description)
During his life amongst wesnothians for a long time Zaryal lost his khalifate identity. Now he calls his unique fighting style with the rune sword using another wesnothian word - quickblade.

Flashblade (revised unit description)
During his life amongst wesnothians for a long time Zaryal lost his khalifate identity. Now he calls his unique advanced fighting style with the rune sword using another wesnothian word - flashblade.

EDIT:
Flix requires upkeep after leveling up. So does Zaryal.
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Re: A Whim of Fate [SP Campaign]

Post by Konrad2 » January 19th, 2019, 9:37 pm

Tribal War
This scenario is so long a tedious that I'm actually skipping it. My main units move painfully slow and even if they were unobstructed, they'd need 20 or more turns to just walk over to the enemy. This scenario is very boring for me.
Please consider making this map smaller. By a lot.


was waiting us -> was waiting for us

Chapter 3
Winged Forests
were to met an old friend Gorandor -> were to meet their old friend Gorandor

Solaevin can't heal, so how is she supposed to delay poison?

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Aldarisvet
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Re: A Whim of Fate [SP Campaign]

Post by Aldarisvet » January 19th, 2019, 10:22 pm

Thank you much for the replay!
I am happy with the way you played this scenario. Was not easy, yes? :D

However you missed using Zaryal's leadership over skirmishers. Also it was not much sense to attack zombie woses with saurian skirmishers. Skirmisher must be used to control villages and finally you did that.

I am a bit busy with Russian translation for the moment but I will fix all issues you mentioned.

Konrad2 wrote:
January 19th, 2019, 9:37 pm
Tribal War
This scenario is so long a tedious that I'm actually skipping it. My main units move painfully slow and even if they were unobstructed, they'd need 20 or more turns to just walk over to the enemy. This scenario is very boring for me.
Please consider making this map smaller. By a lot.


was waiting us -> was waiting for us

Chapter 3
Winged Forests
were to met an old friend Gorandor -> were to meet their old friend Gorandor

Solaevin can't heal, so how is she supposed to delay poison?
Sorry it was boring for you.
But there were lot of players who said that it is good scenario including one who said it is the greatest scenario he ever seen.
I disagree that units move painfully slow.
Well, all your white mages have 6 MP so can they move 2 tiles in the swamp. But there are lot of forest and plains isles in the swamp so actually you can move faster. Also all Shadow mages will get 6 MP after advancement to Battlemages.

This scenario about using saurians as main units to control the map and as you know they are not slow at swamps at all (probably you missed to guess a key thing about this scenario). This map is big because it is the only scenario in the whole campaign where you fight with level2 enemy units. AI needs lot of villages to supply lvl2 units. If instead of villages I will simply give a lot of gold per turn to AI then there would be no sense to fight to control the map. This will all end with a deadlock situation to which all mainline campaign come in the end (I personally think that most of mainline campaigns are bad in all aspects). I agree that map is big so I avoided giving to AI high-level units in the future. I myself came to about a year deadlock with campaign-making after this scenario. Making a battle for villages with level3 units would demand really a super huge map. Or you must modify support cost per village which I do not think is a right thing, because this is interfering with the basics of the game.

From my point of view, a scenario that is closest to be called "boring" in my campaign is scenario 3, yet it is far less boring than many mainline scenarios (especially dungeon scenarios). And for this scenario, nope, I cannot find it boing at all, it is very dynamic scenario. Well, if you find a fight for villages boring I cannot help with that, becase Wesnoth cannot suggest more in a tactical part of it :( .

About Solaevin'g healing - it is a bug that was not in 1.12. I got what is the matter already.
Last edited by Aldarisvet on January 19th, 2019, 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Konrad2
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Re: A Whim of Fate [SP Campaign]

Post by Konrad2 » January 19th, 2019, 11:20 pm

Aldarisvet wrote:
January 19th, 2019, 10:22 pm
Sorry it was boring for you.
But there were lot of players who said that it is good scenario including one who said it is the greatest scenario he ever seen.
I disagree that units move painfully slow.
Well, all your white mages have 6 MP so can they move 2 tiles in the swamp. But there are lot of forest and plains isles in the swamp so actually you can move faster. Also all Shadow mages will get 6 MP after advancement to Battlemages.
I guess people are just different. All is good as long there are people who like it.
(Btw I never go Battlemages, so I did not benefit from the 6MP.)
I am happy with the way you played this scenario. Was not easy, yes? :D
However you missed using Zaryal's leadership over skirmishers. Also it was not much sense to attack zombie woses with saurian skirmishers. Skirmisher must be used to control villages and finally you did that.
Actually, it was easy. It wasn't a walk in a park but it wasn't difficult to accomplish. (Just a bit tedious, as I do consider 2-3 moves per turn slow.)
I saw no benefit in using Zaryal's leadership as this would have meant to:
either send saurians with his group, even though his group was enough to deal with the incoming bats, therefor detracting from my village grabbing and defending saurians
or send Zaryal with the group of saurians, making him part of a group that can deal with the bats without his help while not elevating this group to something that can kill a lich while weakening my other lich killing group, putting them in greater danger
-> no benefit in using Zaryals's leadership.
I'm pretty sure I never used the Skirmishers to outright attack the Woses though? I used them a number of times to defend villages from the or to zone them, but that's not the same as using them with the goal of attacking the Woses. (Throwing spears at the enemy after moving next to one to defend/zone/cover for other units doesn't really count as attacking, does it?)

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Aldarisvet
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Re: A Whim of Fate [SP Campaign]

Post by Aldarisvet » January 20th, 2019, 12:02 am

Konrad2 wrote:
January 19th, 2019, 11:20 pm
(Btw I never go Battlemages, so I did not benefit from the 6MP.)
You did but only for Solaevin and Velendar so they both got advancement in MP from 6 to 7. Well, you also have 2 quick battlemages from the beginning with 6 MP.

Konrad2 wrote:
January 19th, 2019, 11:20 pm
I saw no benefit in using Zaryal's leadership as this would have meant to:
either send saurians with his group, even though his group was enough to deal with the incoming bats, therefor detracting from my village grabbing and defending saurians
or send Zaryal with the group of saurians, making him part of a group that can deal with the bats without his help while not elevating this group to something that can kill a lich while weakening my other lich killing group, putting them in greater danger
-> no benefit in using Zaryals's leadership.
Often I send Zaryal with some saurians (including Flix) and two white mages to the western lich. They kills him but the main goal is not to kill but to distract zombie bats of that lich while other saurians take villages. Zaryal is fast in swamps. Solaevin/Gorandor and quick battlemages are going to north-east lich. Slow battlemages and others stays in the camp in the beginning.
Konrad2 wrote:
January 19th, 2019, 11:20 pm
I'm pretty sure I never used the Skirmishers to outright attack the Woses though? I used them a number of times to defend villages from the or to zone them, but that's not the same as using them with the goal of attacking the Woses. (Throwing spears at the enemy after moving next to one to defend/zone/cover for other units doesn't really count as attacking, does it?)
Well, you right but for me there should be no need to use skirmishers as a cover against these Woses. They are not much a threat if you do not leave the camp. Was very surpring to see saurians fights with woses around turn 10/11 near the camp.

Oh, and I understood that Solaevin really misses leading animations.
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Re: A Whim of Fate [SP Campaign]

Post by Gorumph » January 20th, 2019, 9:56 am

Hi!
First, thank you for this campaign. If not the best I ever played, for sure one of these.
I play on normal.
scenario 1. Played as intended. I stayed around the initial village, grabbing wounded from the clan's war. When I got a dozen of zombies, I went for the south leader, killed him, then up straight to north, same fate. Despite all my efforts, I managed only to keep 2 lev1 zombies alive.
scenario 2. Even with 2 lv1 zombies in reinforcement, first night is on the edge. I found that plying aggressive is often the best option. I could have rush to kill the leader but prefer to wait the last turn to do it, managing to get all my heroes lv2. Got only 2 mounted corpses.
scenario 3. This one is far too long !! and past the first 50 turns, a bit repetitive and boring. With minimum gold, I could only recruit 4 guardsmen. It was enough after some turns to block the eastern passage with 2 of them. Rotate, heal, repeat.
On the eastern front, with a lot of attention and care, I managed to progress slowly with caution.
No big deal, but 136 turns to end, some sort of PITA...
scenario 4. Played as intended. Occupied villages, recruit only ruffians until the tide reverse, then mounted peasants. Again, managed to save only 2 horsemen with 2 turns left.
scenario 5. First, played pure defense in the monastery. failed each time. Then choose the aggressive way. It went smooth and easy. Keep all the mages, even if my battle mages did not get much xp.
scenario 6. It's the only scenario so far as I got the feeling of pure luck is the success key. I recruit max healer mages as meat and went straight to the exit point, holding more or less the line, which is more of a circle by the way. Failed 5 or 6 times, near the end. But the last time, suddenly, after the usual fight, a narrow path open in front of Gorendor and I could rush him to the RdV point.
scenario 7. This is the trickiest and nightmarish scenario of the campaign so far. I am stuck on this one, despite the dozen of attempts.
I voluntary ended my best game at turn 43, the two south liches killed, my main group in range of northwest leader with almost all zombies woses cleaned. But the saurian group leaded by Alix was decimated by the northeast lich. So another failure !
I don't see what I'm missing... I capture a max of villages at first. I send a group of saurian lead by the desert man with Velendar and Flix to the Southwest camp. Recruit saurian to deal with the east bats with the support of my battlemages ( I can't send them in the swamp, even with saurian help 'cause they are eaten alive by bats....) in the main camp until the first woses came, then I begin to recall my white mages. Then, I began to move northeast. But I can't divide my forces, if I do so, my main group do not make it through the woses army.
I would have provide a replay, but afaik the record is only created in case of victory.
Please, any advice will be greatly appreciated !!!:)

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Re: A Whim of Fate [SP Campaign]

Post by Konrad2 » January 20th, 2019, 11:47 am

Didn't you thought you can kill me so easely? -> Did you think you could kill me so easily?
successfull -> successful
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Re: A Whim of Fate [SP Campaign]

Post by Aldarisvet » January 20th, 2019, 2:27 pm

2 Gorumph

Thank you for the campaign's high assessment. I hope that the most interesting things in this camapign both in tactics and storyline still await you in chapter III. And about Winged Swamps we just discussed it largely with Konrad2. You also can upload his replay how he passed it in on Hard.

Gorumph wrote:
January 20th, 2019, 9:56 am
scenario 2. Even with 2 lv1 zombies in reinforcement, first night is on the edge. I found that plying aggressive is often the best option. I could have rush to kill the leader but prefer to wait the last turn to do it, managing to get all my heroes lv2. Got only 2 mounted corpses.
From my point of view this scenario is most hardest (unbalanced) for the whole campaign. Really in the early beginning with unluck your heroes can be killed even if you played very carefully on Hard difficulty.
Gorumph wrote:
January 20th, 2019, 9:56 am
scenario 3. This one is far too long !! and past the first 50 turns, a bit repetitive and boring. With minimum gold, I could only recruit 4 guardsmen. It was enough after some turns to block the eastern passage with 2 of them. Rotate, heal, repeat.
I agree. This is the most repetitive scenario in the whole campaign (for the eastern group that blocks the passage). Well, there is the only scenario in the campaign when you have to block some passage so it is excusably I think. It was the last scenario of the chapter so I thought that it must be epic. One of aspects of this scenario is that I wanted to make a scenario that would praise steadfast ability. It was supposed that people should guess to recruit only guardsmans but they failed and cried that it is hard to defend eastern passage (because they prefer dwarvish fighters of course), so I made an explicit recommendations about recruiting.

The whole campaign is about forcing a player to think and invent.

________________________________________________________________________________

2 Konrad2

I've watched your replays and I am happy with the way you played both scenarios. Still I want to make Winged forests harder, adding Flying skulls at the same moment as Lich appears so flying skulls would intervene in the battle earlier to burn Woses faster (without it too much time is wasted until flying skulls could really enter the battle) but I will add more turns to play as compensation. And about Astral duel, was it easy for you? Were you able to pass this scenario from the first attempt? Because I was not even given I knew what is the idea of this scenario given I am the creator of it.
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Re: A Whim of Fate [SP Campaign]

Post by sergey » January 22nd, 2019, 9:11 am

Aldarisvet wrote:
January 16th, 2019, 11:07 pm
How do you see your recall list if you cannot recall them?
Not sure if you already found the answer. As I remeber, clicking alt+r (recall hotkey) is posible on any tile. Actual recall is possible only on a castle tiles of course. By clicking alt+r on a non-castle tile, you can view the whole recall list, no matter if your leader was restricted to recall some of the veterans.
Last edited by sergey on January 22nd, 2019, 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Whim of Fate [SP Campaign]

Post by Konrad2 » January 22nd, 2019, 9:27 am

Aldarisvet wrote:
January 20th, 2019, 2:27 pm
I've watched your replays and I am happy with the way you played both scenarios. Still I want to make Winged forests harder, adding Flying skulls at the same moment as Lich appears so flying skulls would intervene in the battle earlier to burn Woses faster (without it too much time is wasted until flying skulls could really enter the battle) but I will add more turns to play as compensation. And about Astral duel, was it easy for you? Were you able to pass this scenario from the first attempt? Because I was not even given I knew what is the idea of this scenario given I am the creator of it.
Winged Forest
I'm not sure if 'more turns' could compensate for this. :/ As you could see I stopped them just before the bridge, so they didn't have far to go to overrun me. And stopping them there was only possible because of the time my woses and mages bought for me. Adding the flying skulls from the beginning makes this nonviable, as the skulls will demolish the woses (fire dmg) and demolish the mages (magic hit chance, no support from woses). :(
I'm afraid that I'll just be overrun, as recruiting elves wouldn't help either, as the magic hitchance voids their high dodge chance in forests.

Astral Duel
Spoiler:

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