Oath of Allegiance [SP Desert People Campaign for 1.13.5]

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jyrkive
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Re: Oath of Allegiance [SP Desert People Campaign for 1.13.5

Post by jyrkive » December 29th, 2016, 2:59 pm

ahmannar wrote:This specific problem i don´t think i have come upon before. I´ll post in here the exact error message that pops up before it crashes, it might help with regards to knowing the cause of it (by the way it begins to happen when the ally can move his units, it doesn´t happen until the enemy units spawn):

"Assertion failed!

Program: C:\Program Files (x86)\Battle for Wesnoth 1.13.6\wesnoth.exe
File: src\attack_prediction.ccp, Line 1469

Expression: std::abs(std::accumulate(target.begin(),target.end(), 0.0) -1.0) <0.001 "
Hi, the crashing Wesnoth engine code is mine.

Please attach a save file from soon before the crash, preferably so that the game crashes after you load the save file and end your turn (and you don't need to do anything else). I'll try to fix the crash.

In addition, regarding the delay before the ally starts making moves, it sounds like the AI is taking long to decide what to do. It may well be related to the Monte Carlo damage prediction mode I implemented to speed up damage calculation in complex fights: it likely kicks in too aggressively and ends up slowing down damage calculation instead. I'll try making it less aggressive.

ahmannar
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Re: Oath of Allegiance [SP Desert People Campaign for 1.13.5

Post by ahmannar » December 29th, 2016, 3:18 pm

I attached the save file of the last turn before the game crashes, as you requested. Thank you for your help :)
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jyrkive
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Re: Oath of Allegiance [SP Desert People Campaign for 1.13.5

Post by jyrkive » December 29th, 2016, 3:30 pm

ahmannar wrote:I attached the save file of the last turn before the game crashes, as you requested. Thank you for your help :)
Thanks, I'll investigate the issue in the weekend. :)

Whiskeyjack
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Re: Oath of Allegiance [SP Desert People Campaign for 1.13.5

Post by Whiskeyjack » December 31st, 2016, 2:58 am

Edit number some such and then some more: I started writing this on November the first. As you can see, it took me a very long time to finish it as I had to fight with severely lacking motivation to be productive while gaming. The Wesnoth and campaign versions change throughout the campaign, this is hopefully noted every time.

Hey there,

as usual, I was promising more than I could deliver, sorry for that. Just not much time right now and when I´m playing Wesnoth most of the time I just want to relax and not pay so much attention as a playthrough would need. Therefore I´ll just start and drop this by in bits and pieces, because it might take quite a while (or I get taken up so much in the story again that I just binge it, we´ll see. ;) )

The story screens are really awesome! I can´t believe the work you put into this! :)

Wesnoth 1.13.5, OoA Version 1.11

The usual suggestions, as always, take what you like. I played this only with a mind for the story, so you probably won´t find a lot of gameplay issues. I tried to go a little less hard on formatting to save some time, I hope everything is still clear.

I have to confess to not looking what might have been reported already.
General notes:
Scenario 1: From Afar:
Scenario 2: Drought:
Scenario 3: Peril:
Scenario 4: A Whisper in the Sands:
Scenario 6: The Pearl of the Desert:
From here on it´s Wesnoth 1.13.6 and OoA 1.12
Scenario 8: Isanbar:
Scenario 9: Beneath the Sands:
Scenario 10: Three Kings:
Scenario 11: Cloud River:
Scenario 12: Eye of the Hurricane:
Scenario 13: Tharwya:
Scenario 14: Blackhands:
Scenario 15: Return to Tharwya:
Switching to OoA 1.13 from here onwards.
Scenario 16: The Great Wall:
Scenario 17: Uzar the Betrayer:
Scenario 18: Above the Stars and Below Earth:
Scenario 19: All Alone:
Scenario 20: Battle of the Eons:
Scenario 21: Timeless:
Scenario 22: Epilogue:
Despite missing out on that epic looking last battle I had a whole lot of fun playing the campaign and the work you invested on all ends in such a short amount of time is truly astounding! Thanks :)

Cheers!
Whiskeyjack

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Kwandulin
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Re: Oath of Allegiance [SP Desert People Campaign for 1.13.5

Post by Kwandulin » December 31st, 2016, 9:41 am

Glad you liked it and thanks a ton for your efforts! I've uploaded a hotfix regarding the portals that makes it able to finish the scenario "Return to Th'arwya". I'll address the other notes once I implement your suggestions.
Working on the campaign for a rather long time, I am afraid I got somewhat betriebsblind, so special thanks for having a closer look at the storyline and its irregularities. I'll make sure to make appropriate changes.

Thanks!

jyrkive
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Re: Oath of Allegiance [SP Desert People Campaign for 1.13.5

Post by jyrkive » December 31st, 2016, 2:59 pm

I fixed the runtime assertion and the performance regression (they are both Wesnoth engine bugs). :) The fixes will be in 1.13.7. In 1.13.6, you can work around the issues by disabling the advanced preference "Allow damage calculation with Monte Carlo simulation".

Namely, the assertion happened when the AI simulated the same unit being attacked by three different units consecutively, the first attacking unit had a slowing attack, and the second and third fights were simulated in Monte Carlo mode.
cause of the assertion:

Whiskeyjack
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Re: Oath of Allegiance [SP Desert People Campaign for 1.13.5

Post by Whiskeyjack » December 31st, 2016, 3:03 pm

Well, that was interesting, thanks for the info :)

Is the fix an option in preferences, a line somewhere in core or something in the campaigns scenario files? Should be helpful if I stumble upon it again.

jyrkive
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Re: Oath of Allegiance [SP Desert People Campaign for 1.13.5

Post by jyrkive » December 31st, 2016, 4:02 pm

Whiskeyjack wrote:Well, that was interesting, thanks for the info :)

Is the fix an option in preferences, a line somewhere in core or something in the campaigns scenario files? Should be helpful if I stumble upon it again.
The workaround is disabling this preference:
Monte Carlo preference.PNG
The actual fix is in C++ code and can't be applied without recompiling the game.

Whiskeyjack
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Re: Oath of Allegiance [SP Desert People Campaign for 1.13.5

Post by Whiskeyjack » January 21st, 2017, 2:50 pm

pensive indeed :hmm:

Oath of Alleagiance

Not looking to start a political debate here, folks.

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Kwandulin
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Re: Oath of Allegiance [SP Desert People Campaign for 1.13.5

Post by Kwandulin » February 3rd, 2017, 8:46 pm

I had been able to implement most of the changes you've suggested (still need to find some cool epilogues for the heroes). It surely cost you many hours to write down all the typos and suggestions to fix them, thanks a lot for doing so!

Most of the scenario changes that you suggested, like killing Bahar at the coast, sound really cool and I'll try to get something done for those. Addressing a few things:
Nuvdaels mounted version can move its remaining MP after fighting, is this intended?
Yes, this is intended.
Uthain has movement 2 on hills, forest, cave and fungus and movement 3 on mountains, I guess this isn´t intentional?
Right, that's wrong, I've fixed it.
I didn´t understand Dawoud´s second "Battle-tested" AMLA, what does it mean his attack now uses 0 MP? He can move afterwards? [...] Sometimes (or always?) Dawoud can move again after he attacked a second time. Is this intended? I didn't really understand what all his AMLAs did. . .
Yes, he can move again after an attack if he still has some movement points left when attacking.

Scenario 8: Isanbar
If I have not completely messed up while reading the code, there is no way for Nuvdael to reach his bow. You probably intended to have it at 36/27?
That's right and is already fixed in the newest version

Scenario 10: Three Kings
He speaks of the Three Kings´ magic being dispelled (this sentence is from the old version), which would imply that the undead are summoned by a spell the TK left behind? This was not clear to me at the start of the scenario, the sentence seems a bit out of place. How about adding Those bones look like a remnant spell of the caverns old inhabitants! upon sighting the undead?
Great idea, implemented that!

Scenario 20: Battle of the Eons
I have to confess that I was rather disappointed that Balariel never had another line and as a unit wasn't really special - I was pretty hyped when I got her :D. Is she just a tease for your coming Deep Elves faction?
She is a counterweight to the very sausage-y group of heroes, but you're right that she deserves some more lines to say. The group of heroes is already rather large, so I can't just add her to the normal group. I might implement some "antagonisms" e.g. if you decide to let Balariel join your group, another hero leaves or something like that.

Scenario 21: Timeless
I completely didn't get from the dialogue why Dawoud had to go and where he went. Did he sacrifice himself to complete the spell? Did he enter the Sphere to help the future generations? If the first: Why are all the other Athvari still standing?
Mhh, right, the dialogue isn't very precise there. Dawoud is meant to be one of the higher Athvari, so the ordinary ones probably can't cast the spell. On top of that, he refused to help create the Sphere which later led to the Sphere becoming uncontrollable; eventually, he is 'paying the price' for his former misdeeds

The next update will be a bit bigger once again (in fact, the tons of typos and language mistakes are a very big update on their own), but it still needs some more cooking.

Also:
Whiskeyjack wrote:pensive indeed :hmm:

Oath of Alleagiance

Not looking to start a political debate here, folks.
Oath of Allegiance - check
Great Wall - check
But who are the three kings then?

ahmannar
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Re: Oath of Allegiance [SP Desert People Campaign for 1.13.5

Post by ahmannar » February 4th, 2017, 5:14 pm

Seems like my time estimate for getting the death messages done has been quite a bit off :oops: . I also intended to give a look at the descriptions of the extra units that have been made, but i will need more time to figure something out.
I hope some of these suggestions can be useful to you.

EDIT:
Forgot to mention this. In the last playable scenario, what do you think of getting the kings to full life if they are killed by someone that is not ilriel, instead of losing the game? Since she´s supposed to be the only one able to defeat them, i always thought it would be more obvious if they simply would refuse to die, instead of the player losing at that moment (since i was gonna suggest this, that´s the reason for not suggesting a death message for that case).
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Kwandulin
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Re: Oath of Allegiance [SP Desert People Campaign for 1.13.5

Post by Kwandulin » February 4th, 2017, 5:21 pm

They sound nice! Thanks :)
ahmannar wrote:EDIT: Forgot to mention this. In the last playable scenario, what do you think of getting the kings to full life if they are killed by someone that is not ilriel, instead of losing the game? Since she´s supposed to be the only one able to defeat them, i always thought it would be more obvious if they simply would refuse to die, instead of the player losing at that moment (since i was gonna suggest this, that´s the reason for not suggesting a death message for that case).
Right, that's certainly better than losing. I'll take a look at it.


Edit: on a sidenote: I am also thinking about changing the unit type of the hero units to personify the types: e.g. Ibn Khazul currently is a Rakib, whose unit description is more or less generic. I'd like to change it so, that the unit type is also "Ibn Khazul" (both name and type are "Ibn Khazul" then). In the renewed unit type, I'd like to display the history of the hero (taking part in battle XY, born in AB, and his personal things). What's your opinion of that?
One downside would be, that there are some character related information that are showcased at a later point in the campaign...

ahmannar
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Re: Oath of Allegiance [SP Desert People Campaign for 1.13.5

Post by ahmannar » February 6th, 2017, 6:16 pm

That seems like a good idea in order to differentiate them more. Would it be practical and make sense for their info on the new unit type to be only things that have happened and/or are know until the point of the campaign where they appear for the 1st time? After that point, the extra info that relates to them would just be told in the campaign itself, at least from what i understand of your idea.

EDIT: I never saw this in other campaigns so i don´t even know if it´s possible, but another possibility would be to "update" their unit type with extra information whenever something happens that would be worthy to be added in their info. If this would be possible, adding a note when the first unit of this kind appear, stating that their info will be updated along the campaign, could be a way to not confuse the players with the extra info that would keep appearing. Just throwing random ideas right here.

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Kwandulin
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Re: Oath of Allegiance [SP Desert People Campaign for 1.13.5

Post by Kwandulin » February 6th, 2017, 6:21 pm

Yes, that's the most practical approach for most of the heroes. Nuvdael's whole background story, however, is only developed at a later point. He would suffer quite a bit from that approach, I think.


Edit: Right, updating the unit type description might be the best idea. I'll try to find out if that's possible.

Edit2: Okay, there's currently no convenient way to do that :<

ahmannar
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Re: Oath of Allegiance [SP Desert People Campaign for 1.13.5

Post by ahmannar » February 10th, 2017, 8:21 pm

The updated information about the heroes was supposed to happen more than 1 time for each of them? If that isn´t the case, maybe changing their unit type by "advancing" to abetter version and pass along their exp, at that point, could be a solution. However there would be a need to explain getting improved story-wise and balance issues with them getting stronger. I´m not also sure if this is another thing that is feasible, BfW can sometimes be quite restrictive.

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