The Beautiful Child

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Darkon
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Darkon »

well, for example, there can be side-stories of;

that elf inmortal that helped them when they go to the council of elf, that who had to kill his best friend because of madness, i remeber that he appeared helping the heroes for a few scenaries before the end of chapter one

that lich that lived in a cave doing experiments, helping them to stop the invasion of (im not sure) orcs, he was extremaly powerfull

that another lich that was studing the ''galaxy'' hole in the beggining of second chapter

there are in the secuel that his ''son'' become corrupted, i assume that you are refering to the hero wich you play in second campaign, so can be an history of how he corrupts (because i remeber he ended with his old fathers friend if im right)

in the secuel, there no talk about the ''elf experiment'' of the ''queen of darkness'' and no one talk about her, maybe there is a tragic history about her, that can be connected with the history of his brother, maybe she corrupted him

have you thought on traduct the both campaings into another languages?

there are several black armor warriors with the power of the lighting that appeared in the most crucial moments of the first part campaing, that you have to awaken with a puzzle, that can be their own side-story of how they were ''maded'' and their oath for justice

and finally, some questions; why in the books and the gods talk about the ''demons apocalipse'' when the most dangerous problem was the black souls at the end of the second campaing? I have seen a lot of different races appear in the game, but there still plenty of them that havent appeared if we talk about ageless era, what do you think of that compilation? have you thought in create a story about Irdya zone where this happens? And finally, maybe there is a story where some humans or races that dont dissapeared in the end of the world in ''legend of invencibles and escaped to the ancient continent (that one from that was fulled of orcs before), maybe there is another chapter for a awesome history
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Dugi
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Dugi »

I have placed there a few events to insert potential spin-offs. But I am working on something that is taking long and will most likely take much longer (unless I go to prison only with my laptop or something else that would allow me to have insane amounts of free time). This campaign is an experiment I needed to do (actually, I also happened to make up a story I wound worth the effort). I can always make up something of the style assemble some generic bad guys to be bad guys, get some good guys to fight these villains, a few sudden revelations, some investigation, but I don' t find it worth it.
Spoiler:
have you thought on traduct the both campaings into another languages?
I have, but the programs that handle translations don't seem to like the items' code and the translation system is unmaintained currently. But it should be available for translation once these issues get dealt with. Also, I am really bad at translating myself.
why in the books and the gods talk about the ''demons apocalipse'' when the most dangerous problem was the black souls at the end of the second campaing?
It was told that they aren't numerous enough to destroy the demons. The demons are more numerous, so they are a greater problem. They're probably fighting each other, haven't decided yet. Also, the demons destroyed the world, the black souls came later.
Wussel
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Wussel »

There was this guessing game introduced in the first thread.

I did not play jet. By reading it reminded me of the Eddy Murphy movie with this golden child. The golden child was Tibetan and kidnapped by some evil demons who tried to hide in human form. The Tibetans where not deceived and hired Eddy who was a private investigator specialized on children cases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Child
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Dugi
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Dugi »

The film has interesting similarity with my story, but I've never heard of it before (so I wasn't inspired by it). Looks like a film that would be interesting to watch, thanks for the tip.
barnabox
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by barnabox »

Awesome work on this and Legends of the Invincibles, Dugi. My sons and I both think you've really taken Wesnoth to a new level!
Anyway, I've been playing The Beautiful Child and now I'm stuck trying to find the Hidden Valley. I thought I was getting somewhere when I stumbled across a powerful bunch of bandits in the north of the Grey Hills, but alas, I wasn't!
Can someone point me in the right direction please?
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Dugi
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Dugi »

Glad to hear that you like it.

The Hidden Valley can be entered only through a cave in the Valley Passage area. Look at the image in the spoiler bellow to see where it roughly is.
Spoilers inside:
barnabox
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by barnabox »

Doh! I completely forgot about Valley Passage! I've been teleporting around with the stones and forgot you had to walk there. Thanks :D
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tamanegi
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by tamanegi »

Really enjoyable campaign, thank you for creating this. :D
I wanna report some minor problems i met during the play. (i briefly read .cfg files for confirmation.)
The version is 0.1.4 Beta on Wesnoth 1.12.

- When i go back to Farborugh (from Crooked Ravine), the enemy squad including faithful_lieutenant appears as in the first battle. I guess the variable quests.post_intro_fight_victory should be quests.post_intro_fight.
- When i visit Goonville for the first time, the label on the castle says "Grey Hills" instead of "Burke's Castle".
- In "To_Tame_a_Land", the speaker of message begins with "You're lying..." might be "unit", not "second_unit". (in encounter_side_3 event)
- When i enter Faithdome after winning the Hidden Valley battle (i misconceived Konrad be in Faithdome :oops: ), conversations about hidden valley, which i already heard before visiting there, immediately begins. I'm little bit confused.
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It is true that we cannot be free from bugs, but at least let our bugs not always the same...
A Group in a War: my first campaign, An Independence War: and the sequel
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Dugi
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Dugi »

@tamanegi
Farborough respawn issue - the problem was different than you wrote, but you weren't far, fixed.
Goonville transition name mismatch - fixed.
To Tame a Land wrong speaker - fixed.
Hidden Valley old conversation return - I forgot to think about the possibility that you could return there and forgot to add a check preventing it from repeating

You can update the campaign to have the fixes.
rytas
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by rytas »

Great work on campaigns.

I'm observing situation that causes weapons with 'missomething' multiplicate damage to unreal heights (i.e. Dragonslayer, Chaosbringer).
Also duke with warlords rule and l6 leadership makes shown weapon damage like... tripple, which is insane - must be a bug?

Example:
- Sicaria freshly recruited 10-3 dagger
- next to duke: 30-3
- Sicaria with Chaosbringer equipped: 80-4
- Sicaria with Chaosbringer next to duke... 240-4

Wesnoth 1.12.1
TBC 0.1.5 Beta
LotI 3.1.12

p.s. Also, I was thinking that somehow with all this equipment and all the traits it feels unnatural that all the enemies do not seem to wear anything special or have additional abilities or resistances (not counting those special few).
It would seem more logical if enemies could wear the items they drop later and some have random additional abilities. I'm not sure how hard it would be to implement such a system.
Raijer
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Raijer »

rytas wrote:It would seem more logical if enemies could wear the items they drop later and some have random additional abilities. I'm not sure how hard it would be to implement such a system.
Well, the issue about enemies wearing items has been discussed long and large in the Legend of the Invincibles' topic (where Dugi first created the item system), and what came out is that it's useless to do it, and would actually destroy the point of it. Anyway, about special abilities, you might not have gone far enough, or you're on a lower difficulty (not sure, i didn't play that campaign much), but Dugi implemented that in "Legend of the Invincibles", and probably thought it would become too hard if he did it in "The beautiful Child".

rytas wrote:I'm observing situation that causes weapons with 'missomething' multiplicate damage to unreal heights (i.e. Dragonslayer, Chaosbringer).
Also duke with warlords rule and l6 leadership makes shown weapon damage like... tripple, which is insane - must be a bug?
That does seem a little overboard. From what i remember, the "missomething" are supposed to double the damage against a specific race (dwarves, elves...), but the 8 times damage seems a lot. Are you sure you've got nothing else equipped ?
About Duke: He can actually get awesome if you equip him with the good items... Triple leadership can happen, though it should have been nerfed recently. All in all, it sounds quite strange, maybe an upgrade he did in LotI and not in TBC.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

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rytas
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by rytas »

Raijer wrote:
rytas wrote:It would seem more logical if enemies could wear the items they drop later and some have random additional abilities. I'm not sure how hard it would be to implement such a system.
Well, the issue about enemies wearing items has been discussed long and large in the Legend of the Invincibles' topic (where Dugi first created the item system), and what came out is that it's useless to do it, and would actually destroy the point of it. Anyway, about special abilities, you might not have gone far enough, or you're on a lower difficulty (not sure, i didn't play that campaign much), but Dugi implemented that in "Legend of the Invincibles", and probably thought it would become too hard if he did it in "The beautiful Child".
Oh well, it seems like a long topic.
Raijer wrote:
rytas wrote:I'm observing situation that causes weapons with 'missomething' multiplicate damage to unreal heights (i.e. Dragonslayer, Chaosbringer).
Also duke with warlords rule and l6 leadership makes shown weapon damage like... tripple, which is insane - must be a bug?
That does seem a little overboard. From what i remember, the "missomething" are supposed to double the damage against a specific race (dwarves, elves...), but the 8 times damage seems a lot. Are you sure you've got nothing else equipped ?
About Duke: He can actually get awesome if you equip him with the good items... Triple leadership can happen, though it should have been nerfed recently. All in all, it sounds quite strange, maybe an upgrade he did in LotI and not in TBC.
I'm about 100% sure.
From what i remember, the "missomething" are supposed to double damage "when you hit specific thing" but not the values shown on "character info card".
3x "missomething" on Chaosbringer multiplying normal damage x2x2x2 is not normal, right?
Let me know how i can help to debug this.

p.s. about duke - without items still triples weapon damage shown on the "right hand side character info card". My memory tells me that "charge" is supposed to double damage only when attacking and does not alter normal weapon damage shown?
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Dugi
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Dugi »

Great work on campaigns.
Thanks.
'missomething' multiplicate damage to unreal heights (i.e. Dragonslayer, Chaosbringer).
...
Okay, the'll not drop anymore in this campaign, almost all enemies are lawful and human and these specialised bonuses, originally intended to be helpful against some enemies are suddenly useful against most enemies.
without items still triples weapon damage shown on the "right hand side character info card".
Yeah, but he also doubles the damage taken, charge has drawbacks.
rytas
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by rytas »

Dugi wrote:
'missomething' multiplicate damage to unreal heights (i.e. Dragonslayer, Chaosbringer).
...
Okay, the'll not drop anymore in this campaign, almost all enemies are lawful and human and these specialised bonuses, originally intended to be helpful against some enemies are suddenly useful against most enemies.
Maybe you're right, but it still does not fix underlying issue, ie as far as i remember in LotI these 'missomething' worked differently - damage was doubled only when attacking the right type of enemy, not 'double unconditionally three times'.
Dugi wrote:
without items still triples weapon damage shown on the "right hand side character info card".
Yeah, but he also doubles the damage taken, charge has drawbacks.
Thats true, but when doubling combos make damage too great the fun of one hit kills wears off quickly.

From the balance of things perspective i would work out some form of limiting to the 'double damage' combos - f.e. 'if damage is doubled already by something, if its to be doubled by other effect then make it +20% instead'.
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Dugi
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Re: The Beautiful Child (beta)

Post by Dugi »

damage was doubled only when attacking the right type of enemy, not 'double unconditionally three times'.
Yes, but that was because you were facing many enemy races. That dagger exists in LotI too and works the same.
Thats true, but when doubling combos make damage too great the fun of one hit kills wears off quickly.
Yeah. I understand, but preventing these multiplicative bonuses from stacking multiplicatively is hard.
From the balance of things perspective i would work out some form of limiting to the 'double damage' combos - f.e. 'if damage is doubled already by something, if its to be doubled by other effect then make it +20% instead'.
It's not so easy. I have already prevented various backstab bonuses from stacking (the strongest one applies), I'll see if I can find something. Doing just what you suggested would require me to change the game's source code which add-ons can't do. I have halved the effect of the Warlord's Rule ability, I was thinking that it was a bit too strong for longer.
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