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[ExVault]

I have seen a lot of people complaining on the forums that they want a mod without randomness..

and I don't want to see any posts of this kind. Ever..

Impossible task imho: BfW is a game with a very high stress level. Amount of information to manage, learning curve and mistakes pusniment in BfW have all high stress level (only cathegory with low stress is time reaction). It is well known that as higher stress level a game has, less people enjoy it (BfW will be always a minoritary game). Every time someone complain about randomess, it is just complaining about the stress level being to high. Those complains always will come from people that don´t master the game and will never have a good game design as outcome. Day a complain about randomess come from a 2000 elo player we could start to talk seriously...

I enjoy playing BfW with this mod a lot more than vanilla.
The only minus - game has low damage values and it works terribly with percentage based reduction. With 100% hit chance there is no need in multiple attacks. I am thinking about modifying ALL unit files and remove redundant attacks, unit will do 20-1 damage instead of 5-4. Or even multiply all hp and damage values by 2. This will be even better. But then healing will be broken. Need percentage based healing...

[Mabuse]

I enjoy playing BfW with this mod a lot more than vanilla.
The only minus - game has low damage values and it works terribly with percentage based reduction. With 100% hit chance there is no need in multiple attacks. I am thinking about modifying ALL unit files and remove redundant attacks, unit will do 20-1 damage instead of 5-4. Or even multiply all hp and damage values by 2. This will be even better. But then healing will be broken. Need percentage based healing...

of course there is stell need for multiple attacks.

if a unit would deal all of its damage in a 100% chance-to-hit attack, then a unit dealing 20 damage can simply kill a unit with 19HP without getting any damage in return. this has of course huge effects on gameplay. its more about who will strike first, than getting average damage result

number of strikes still have a meaning.


right now, with a "no-randomness" mod you just get average-damage and the ensurerance that you WILL deal damage.

with your proposal, the whole balance of wesnoth would be broken

[ExVault]

then a unit dealing 20 damage can simply kill a unit with 19HP without getting any damage in return

But terrain defense will reduce that damage. Even if 19 hp unit stands in Deep Water it will be (20*80)/100 = 16 damage, not a 1 hit kill.

[Mabuse]

@ExVault: the final number of the damage is completely irrelevant. then the unit in my example has only 16 HP . Huh?

relevent is, that ALL the damage is dealt without getting some damage in return.

i hope you understand that, and if not, nobody can prevent you from doing whatever you want. BUT it wont be that good as you migt imagine

I have also investigated how can Mabuse's No Luck Era show the changes in damage calculations. I didn't expect it to be coded that way. That way of coding it makes it impossible to round the damages up.

yes, unfortuanately.
... at least no easy one.

there could be a way to do that by using different multipliers for different base-damages, but i was too lazy to do it. and im also not sure if it makes sense.

classical problem.

base damage 5 - rounding down:
defense: 60% = 5 x 0.4 = 2
defense: 50% = 5 x 0.5 = 2.5 = 2
defense: 40% = 5 x 0.6 = 3

base damage 5 - rounding up:
defense: 60% = 5 x 0.4 = 2
defense: 50% = 5 x 0.5 = 2.5 = 3
defense: 40% = 5 x 0.6 = 3


so no matter how you round it, for SOME defense values and damage-numbers there will be always the same results. now with round down, 50% defense is about as good as 60%

with rounding up, 50% defense is about as useles as being on flat-terrain.


so rounding up doesnt always seem the best idea, so i simply left it as it is.

[ChaosRider]

If you cant go lower why you wont go higher? Multiply recruited and already exist units hp 10 times and dmg which they deal 10 times...

[ExVault]

relevent is, that ALL the damage is dealt without getting some damage in return.

Ye, I understand that. In my opinion such situation can take place only in 2 cases:
1. Finishing injured low hp unit. How can man in such condition resist you? He is tired, bleeding and half-dead. You execute him with 1 blow without any retaliation.
2. Killing 1 lvl creature with 3 lvl one. How can stinky alcoholic peasant cause harm to fully armored shiny Paladin on a battle horse? Its impossible.

i hope you understand that, and if not, nobody can prevent you from doing whatever you want

I will try
Probably I will just waste a lot of time (change every unit file, jeez).

[ExVault]

If you cant go lower why you wont go higher? Multiply recruited and already exist units hp 10 times and dmg which they deal 10 times...

I've thought about that. It will be great. But healing... you can change healer's heal, but village and inactive turn heal is hardcoded, I believe.

[ChaosRider]

make a event to increase units hp when they end turn on some terrain type, its not that hard.

[ExVault]

make a event to increase units hp when they end turn on some terrain type, its not that hard.

Its all about those pleasing green numbers. Without them its not so attractive.

[doofus-01]

make a event to increase units hp when they end turn on some terrain type, its not that hard.

Its all about those pleasing green numbers. Without them its not so attractive.

You can have your green numbers using [floating_text]

[Dugi]

make a event to increase units hp when they end turn on some terrain type, its not that hard.

This is too impractical, the UI would not show the new healing values and you would always see the default healing value first and then whatever you make it show.
Despite your beliefs, the village healing isn't hardcoded, it is just a property of the terrain type. You can just clone the village terrains, give the new terrains 80 hp healing instead of 8 hp (this is mostly copying and pasting, villages have no transitions, so there's nothing complex) and make an event that replaces the old villages with new ones. No duplicate green numbers and healing shown in the UI.

Anyway, if you want that, feel free to edit my add-on changing whatever you want (unit_types don't have to be changed necessarily, you may just add a few events to change all units permanently when they're recruited) and make your own add-on out of it, this add-on was merely designed to remove the randomness everywhere in an easily available way.

[ChaosRider]

Still you have to do event for healing ability, regenerates, poison, also i thought once about add lava regeneration for drakes but lava dont have own terrain group as villages (so here its easier).

As for these events (for abilities) i would let hoster choose to turn them on or no, because with bigger hp now they wont be so usefull (one can like it, other one not).

[ExVault]

the village healing isn't hardcoded

What about inactive turn 2 hp heal?

[Dugi]

Poison and abilities can be changed too. Just check the numeric values for these abilities and multiply them by 10. Changing poison needs a lua-based trick, but it can be done (the 8 damage done by poison is a variable set in the game's preferences, though there is no window where you can edit it).

However, the inactive 2 hp heal is hardcoded. But WML can learn if the units are inactive and healed because of it, so you can just heal the rest after it (yes, this will create confusing numbers, but how much do you let units rest normally?).

[ArKFallen]

./data/game_config.cfg
It controls the default healing numbers for villages and resting. Also poison damage and recall cost (and some other things). It's been around some years so I'm not sure how the modding scene wouldn't know about it .