The Fall of Bort

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Raijer
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Re: The Fall of Bort

Post by Raijer »

The map should arrive soon.
Following of what i started 30 minutes ago, might also spoil:
And that's the end of the first scenario. Still need to add the death lines for each leader. And maybe a line for the orcish army.

About the units:
Maia has to get Li'sar's unit, if possible with a bow attack. Or the female counterpart of Konrad's unit (fighter, evolves into lord), but with Li'sar's sprite.
For Rey, i thought about getting the "sword mage" unit (fencer->sword mage->Knight of magic, no need for lvl 4, but get him +1 damage on his magic attack at lvl 3) from Dugi's era, as he needs to be absolutely perfect in everything (fencing and magic). Remove the "antisocial" ability, but don't add commandement, as there aren't many people that like him. If not possible, simply get Konrad's unit.
Already talked about Leo.
Niel is a master-at-arms, as classic as he can be.
Same thing for Angelo, just a fencer.

About the names. I went for it depending on what i wanted to do with them, some are out of my own imagination (Maia, Rey, Angelo), Niel and Leo i found on a classic name generator and i liked them. About mainline Wesnoth... Let's say i don't care. Names have always evolved, and actually depends on where you're born and which "era" you were born in, so let's say they had strange parents. Glad you seem to like them. But, if a lot of people say we should follow mainline, why not.


Here comes the map. I'm absolutely not proud of it, that's my first, so i implore you to give me advices to make it more balanced/more natural. It was done on 1.11.10, but doesn't use any special tiles or anything like that.

Did some small edits on my precedent post, correcting some typos, and changing who speaks in one of the dialogs.
Attachments
First skirmish.map
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Paulomat4
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Re: The Fall of Bort

Post by Paulomat4 »

about the map:
It has an unnatural feel, because everything is so regular. Every single tile connecting the lake to the land has a ford, the forest edges are regular too, they are all the same kind of trees (normally one would meet different kind of trees), etc... Also, are you going for a village or a city? The current thing is rather small for a city (even perhaps for a village) but has stone pavement and those city villages.
The southern forest seemed unneeded. nobody would go there anyway, and no fighting would take place there. Same would go for the lake , but he adds a bit of change to the map.
To show you what I mean, I tried my hand at overhauling the map you posted. Please feel free to modify it.
About the units:
Maia has to get Li'sar's unit, if possible with a bow attack. Or the female counterpart of Konrad's unit (fighter, evolves into lord), but with Li'sar's sprite.
For Rey, i thought about getting the "sword mage" unit (fencer->sword mage->Knight of magic, no need for lvl 4, but get him +1 damage on his magic attack at lvl 3) from Dugi's era, as he needs to be absolutely perfect in everything (fencing and magic). Remove the "antisocial" ability, but don't add commandement, as there aren't many people that like him. If not possible, simply get Konrad's unit.
Already talked about Leo.
Niel is a master-at-arms, as classic as he can be.
Same thing for Angelo, just a fencer.
I think that's all a bit fencer oriented. You'd have 3. How about changing Niel to a royal guard? (which would fit, because he's guarding/teaching the princess).
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Raijer
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Re: The Fall of Bort

Post by Raijer »

I think that's all a bit fencer oriented. You'd have 3
I intended to kill him in the next scenario (giving a loyal level 3 unit right from the start... maybe in your dreams), so i didn't really think about it that way. But you're right, so i agree with making him a royal guard.

About the map:I'm more going for a village, but didn't really know which keep to give it. You can do all the changes you need, i did it just to give an idea of what i thought of and give a map for the first scenario (things didn't really seem to get started up), even if it did need to be changed a lot. I will remember your advices to make better maps later (if i have the chance to).



Also, random idea, completely your choice as i don't really care, but after what you said about fencers, i thought i might make Rey a fencer that would then evolve in the royal guard line (with the same magic attack, of course), to protect the princess.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

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Great_Mage_Atari
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Re: The Fall of Bort

Post by Great_Mage_Atari »

I love where this is going. However, I don't believe it is necessary to begin the campaign with more than two or three "main" characters (i.e. characters that are either important or have a role). If you worry too much about too many characters right away, then attention is drawn away from gameplay. Also, standard Wesnoth names should be used when naming.

Raijer
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Re: The Fall of Bort

Post by Raijer »

However, I don't believe it is necessary to begin the campaign with more than two or three "main" characters
I might have gone too fast in there. I had a grandiloquent history ready, but you're right.

Going by that, i'm gonna keep 3 people: the princess, the perfect guy and the old mentor. The others will most likely appear in some scenarios, depending on the story (i can make the mage appear whenever i want, and i've got an idea of when i'm going to make the noble appear).

About the names... That's too bad. I liked how their names fitted them quite perfectly (though "Angelo" might have been too much), but i would like to at least keep Maia and Rey. I can change all the others' names, but those two are exactly what i want, and i would really want them.
For the old mentor, i'm gonna go with "Saent" which was created via Wesnoth (after lots of tries).

@Paulomat: seems like i have to redo the first scenario taking that into account. I'm gonna wait for Atari's answer before doing anything.
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Paulomat4
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Re: The Fall of Bort

Post by Paulomat4 »

I've been thinking about the names too, and thought that maia and rey were the names that we could keep. Also, what i've been thinking about, is to make the campaign also avaible as mp campaign, similar to "the legend of wesmere". This way, one would have two leaders in singleplayer and 2 player sides in multyplayer. This should be possible, (legend of wesmere shows how it's done) and I've allways wanted to create a mp campaign hybrid
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"I thought Naga's used semi-automatic crossbows with incendiary thermite arrows . . . my beliefs that this race is awesome are now shattered." - Evil Earl

Raijer
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Re: The Fall of Bort

Post by Raijer »

@Paulomat: Here's the reworked scenario, please start coding it. We can always rework the dialogs later, but it would be good to finally get the first scenario out.
Spoiler:
That should do it. For the balance, i would like it to be easy to win on normal, something like all 3 players have the same starting gold, so since you're 2 vs 1, you should win easily. The units you can recruit are all the loyalists' level 1 units (no thieves/dark adepts...). The village leader can recruit only peasants, pikemen and bowmen.

The orc leader should be an Orcish warrior (lvl 2), and can recruit the basic orcish units (Goblin spearmen too).

Turn limit should depend on how much gold we give each sides, but i think if we give 150 each, 15 turns should be enough (also depends on how you changed the map).
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

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Paulomat4
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Re: The Fall of Bort

Post by Paulomat4 »

Have you thought about the two leaders option? :)
Rey->fencer that advances to swordsman with fire magic attack
I think, that this would confuse players. I guess rey evolving into the mage-duelist from LOTI would be a better choice here.
Creator of Dawn of Thunder and Global Unitmarkers

"I thought Naga's used semi-automatic crossbows with incendiary thermite arrows . . . my beliefs that this race is awesome are now shattered." - Evil Earl

Raijer
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Re: The Fall of Bort

Post by Raijer »

Indeed, since i removed the other fencers.
If you can make the map fit the 2 leaders option, i don't really mind. But then that means Rey will be a side leader in 2 players games, but not in single player games.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

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Paulomat4
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Re: The Fall of Bort

Post by Paulomat4 »

well, as I see it, we could make it so that in sp the player has two leaders (as for example in LOTI, LOW or AOI), and in mp he becomes an entirely different side.
Or just leave him as normal hero, and let the player only have one leader.
Creator of Dawn of Thunder and Global Unitmarkers

"I thought Naga's used semi-automatic crossbows with incendiary thermite arrows . . . my beliefs that this race is awesome are now shattered." - Evil Earl

Raijer
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Re: The Fall of Bort

Post by Raijer »

By 2 leaders, you mean 2 sides controlled by the player, which then separate when in multi-player, i suppose.
It's the best way to make the campaign playable for 1-2 players, though it usually annoys me as i never know which side has which veterans (but that's just me being lazy).

Making the second leader just a normal hero in single player was my first idea, but in fact, it got no real uses out of having only one turn to play. And isn't it a little harder to code (not sure) ? So anyway, let's use your first idea.

So the map has to be changed so you can put Maia in one keep, and Rey in the other. Saent should stay with Maia.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

William Ernest Henley

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Paulomat4
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Re: The Fall of Bort

Post by Paulomat4 »

No, what I meant is, that both rey and maia are leaders of the same side. They may have different recruit and recall lists (but that's no obligation) but they are on the same side. they share the gold, and no need to click end turn.

Also, do you want to have some introductory text at the beginning of the campaign? like maia telling: "I was born in the 5th century of .... as princess of the Kingdom of bort. The last princess of bort to be ever born.... etc."
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Great_Mage_Atari
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Re: The Fall of Bort

Post by Great_Mage_Atari »

I love all the interest that has gone into this, and I believe I have come up with a rough draft of at least the first scenario and a bit of the after story. Once again, this is a community-created campaign, so any and all feedback is welcome. I would also like it if someone else who is skilled in WML could help me, as this campaign may be massive.

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Raijer
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Re: The Fall of Bort

Post by Raijer »

I've actually done an introduction in my first post:


"My name is Maia, and i'm the princess of Bort. As i write, our proud kindgom, which had never lost a war in his thousand years of history, is facing an unknown threat, more powerful than any ever faced. Random skirmishes has been reported in the last months, and i fear a stronger force might be behind them, testing our defenses and weakening us. I have moved to the village of Beemoor with my legion, as it has been under attack for 2 days now."
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

William Ernest Henley

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Great_Mage_Atari
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Re: The Fall of Bort

Post by Great_Mage_Atari »

Raijer wrote:I've actually done an introduction in my first post:


"My name is Maia, and i'm the princess of Bort. As i write, our proud kindgom, which had never lost a war in his thousand years of history, is facing an unknown threat, more powerful than any ever faced. Random skirmishes has been reported in the last months, and i fear a stronger force might be behind them, testing our defenses and weakening us. I have moved to the village of Beemoor with my legion, as it has been under attack for 2 days now."
I have read through your post, and though it could potentially work, I have gone the path of making it different than the typical "We don't know what is attacking us, so we'll go figure out". Also, I have made the Elves the beginning protagonist, which isn't done all that much from the start of a campaign. It should be interesting. Finally, I've left room for the following scenarios and the addition of character development. I also have not made names yet, as I'll figure those out once I play with some Wesnoth-compatible names.

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