Birth of a Lich: SP Campaign Feedback and Reviews

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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chak_abhi
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Re: Birth of a Lich: SP Campaign Feedback and Reviews

Post by chak_abhi » July 8th, 2012, 9:27 pm

WanderingHero wrote:
It also takes quite a while for the player to get back their undead, something that might disappoint some people. And this campaign seems just a bit "inspired" from descent into darkness, though with more reasonable characters.
Now the campaign having been completed I would like to address this post.
It is true that Malin Keshar and Malifor has quite a few similarities. Both raised in frontier villages facing the brunt of orcish invasions. Both sent off to Alduin to learn magic at a young age. Both taking keen interest in the dark arts. Both exiled from Wesnoth for practicing dark arts. Both raising armies of undead to fight orcs. Both injured mortally in battles with orcs/trolls. Both transforming into liches. Both taking refuge in secluded caves. Both turning into scourges of living beings.

However some differences do exist. Malifor, unlike Malin could complete his course of magery. He used undead only as a last resort. He was exiled by the King himself, and not any border commander. He learnt dark magic by himself. He managed to befriend dwarves. He spent most of the remaining of his life defending a city (Dwarven Doors). He as a lich was less skilled in necromancy than Mal Keshar but had better leadership abilities. He also placed his attacks on the orcs in a strategic manner (unlike Mal Keshar who attacked randomly).

So you may definitely say that "Birth of a Lich" is to some extent inspired by "Descent Into Darkness". However I feel that the subtle differences give some uniqueness to the campaign and makes it enjoyable and worthy of playing. 8)

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Crow_T
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Re: Birth of a Lich: SP Campaign Feedback and Reviews

Post by Crow_T » July 8th, 2012, 9:52 pm

I'm getting errors on startup:
Image

btw I hates that error

chak_abhi
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Re: Birth of a Lich: SP Campaign Feedback and Reviews

Post by chak_abhi » July 9th, 2012, 6:25 pm

Yes, there was this minor error. The map was labelled "05_Thunedain_The_Strong.map". Please open "Battle for Wesnoth/userdata/data/add-ons/Birth_of_a_Lich/maps", where you will find a file with this name. Please change it to "05_Thunedain_the_Strong.map". It will work all fine.
But anyhow Bfw 10.0.0 ignored this minor error, and so I didn't face any problem. Sorry for the inconvenience caused.

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Crow_T
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Re: Birth of a Lich: SP Campaign Feedback and Reviews

Post by Crow_T » July 9th, 2012, 8:55 pm

No problem, that worked :)
not much of a chance to play yet, but I like the Malifor sprite :D

WanderingHero
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Re: Birth of a Lich: SP Campaign Feedback and Reviews

Post by WanderingHero » July 11th, 2012, 12:43 pm

Played a bit further but still not done. Thunedian the Strong and Orcish Sovereign were really fun scenarios. I have to admit I groaned when I saw them thinking "Great, another generic orc battle" but your allies, the terrain and the amount of enemy lv2s made it surprisingly fresh.

Last Stand.. is kind of annoying because of certain Tomato Surprises.
Spoiler:


I'll reload (I don't feel that guilty reloading from a Tomato Surprise) a few turns and reposition said units then finish it up, but first I'm getting lunch.

Edit: Oh and the forced negative income was rather annoying, as were the villgaes in the bottom that looked grabbable but weren't

Complaints aside I am honestly enjoying this campaign, and think its above par in both story and gameplay. To anyone just reading I do recommend this, especially if you like the idea of Necromancers who aren't just pure evil.

direfish
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Re: Birth of a Lich: SP Campaign Feedback and Reviews

Post by direfish » July 11th, 2012, 3:41 pm

Not bad, but it feels too much like DiD. Can't see it mainlined unless you don't come up with a more original concept, i'm afraid.

chak_abhi
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Re: Birth of a Lich: SP Campaign Feedback and Reviews

Post by chak_abhi » July 11th, 2012, 7:31 pm

WanderingHero wrote:Played a bit further but still not done. Thunedian the Strong and Orcish Sovereign were really fun scenarios. I have to admit I groaned when I saw them thinking "Great, another generic orc battle" but your allies, the terrain and the amount of enemy lv2s made it surprisingly fresh.

Last Stand.. is kind of annoying because of certain Tomato Surprises.
Spoiler:


I'll reload (I don't feel that guilty reloading from a Tomato Surprise) a few turns and reposition said units then finish it up, but first I'm getting lunch.

Edit: Oh and the forced negative income was rather annoying, as were the villgaes in the bottom that looked grabbable but weren't
In the scenario "Last Stand" Zorlan is unbeatable till turn 19. After that he can be defeated, but you don't really need to defeat him. He doesn't leave behind any gold, and this scenario is one where defeating the enemies only won't trigger victory. You also have to fulfill the other conditions. In this scenario I have set the recruits so that you and your allies always have the strength of numbers (the enemies recruit only L2s, and Thunedain recruits mostly L1s, which prevents the enemy units to gather much XP, but the allied units have the chance of levelling up), so I think this scenario is beatable (may be a bit difficult on the 1st try, but once you know what to expect the difficulty comes down quickly). And I think you won't need the suggestion of not leaving any villages for the ally :P ! I can add a couple of villages more on the bottom (which are grabbable).
Complaints aside I am honestly enjoying this campaign, and think its above par in both story and gameplay. To anyone just reading I do recommend this, especially if you like the idea of Necromancers who aren't just pure evil.
Yeah, this was the very idea which I tried to communicate. I would also like to tell everyone that nothing should be greater than your dedication to fight for a noble cause, and love & devotion to your friends and your homeland should be more important than your own career. Thank you for playing the campaign :) .

direfish wrote:Not bad, but it feels too much like DiD. Can't see it mainlined unless you don't come up with a more original concept, i'm afraid.
Did you find much similarity with DiD except the beginning of the story? I at least feel that from the 4th scenario onwards the campaign moves in a totally different path from DiD (I have highlighted this in a previous post too). And talking about being mainlined, this campaign is not suitable. You see, every mainline campaign moves in a predictable manner, and your recruit & recall lists do not change much (LoW, DM may be some exceptions). Even the wonderful campaign DW had to wait for a long time. I don't know if you have played "The Founding of Borstep" by Beetlenaut (the writer of DW), which inspite of being an awesome campaign is least likely to be mainlined. So better not to worry about such great things so early. :wink: But if you have any suggestion about how to make this campaign better please post it to me (either in this forum, or in a private message), which I will accept very gladly. Thanks for playing this campaign.

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Kanzil
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Re: Birth of a Lich: SP Campaign Feedback and Reviews

Post by Kanzil » July 13th, 2012, 3:44 pm

Very, very good. However, the dialogue needs a bit of polishing(in spite of is not one word), and also I think a few more scanarios should be added describing the fall of Khazg Black-Tusk. Also maybe a scenario about the defence of Dwarven doors would be good? Also I agree, the story, beyond scenario 4 is very different to DiD.
High over valleys in the red levelling rays -
In din of crowded streets, going among the years, the faces,
May I still meet my memory in so lonely a place
Between the streams and the red clouds, hearing the curlews, Hearing the horizons endure.

chak_abhi
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Re: Birth of a Lich: SP Campaign Feedback and Reviews

Post by chak_abhi » July 13th, 2012, 4:44 pm

Kanzil wrote:Very, very good. However, the dialogue needs a bit of polishing(in spite of is not one word), and also I think a few more scanarios should be added describing the fall of Khazg Black-Tusk. Also maybe a scenario about the defence of Dwarven doors would be good? Also I agree, the story, beyond scenario 4 is very different to DiD.
Thanks for playing the campaign. It is good that you liked it.
When I was writing the scenarios I had to put whatever dialogue arose in my mind at that time, only fitting it to the context. I will go through the conversations sometime later. The maps may be also modified a bit.
Initially I had thought of putting more scenarios on the defence of Dwarven Doors, but later backed out considering the possibility of annoying quite a few people due to repetition of the same type of battles (you have to sweat it against the orcs each time, which would be pretty much boring). If you see the reviews on my first campaign "Rebellion in the North" you will find some people complaining about the length. And I intended to end the campaign in scenario 11 itself as the name of the campaign is "'Birth' of a Lich", which is supposed to describe the rise of Malifor. However I added the 12th scenario to mark the highest point of Malifor's ascent and to give some information about the fall of Khazg Black-Tusk. But if I get many requests to add more scenarios I will definitely do that. In any case the length of a campaign is always a source of headache for me (my other 2 campaigns are quite long)!
It is quite encouraging that at least some people feel that there is originality in this campaign. I also thank you for writing a review. :)

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Kanzil
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Re: Birth of a Lich: SP Campaign Feedback and Reviews

Post by Kanzil » July 13th, 2012, 5:28 pm

I agree, there is such a thing as an overly long campaign, however, such is the epic span of your campaign I feel 12 scenarios is a little short, a couple more scenarios would convey that sense of time better. All of your "filler" scenarios had something to make them interesting; the varied enemies and a plethora of interesting events combined with a good dialogue and, most of all, lots of allies make most so-called "filler" scenarios in your campaign very interesting. There's nothing wrong in adding a few of them, as well as maybe another big scenario, in order to thin out your campaign's story, which, at the moment, is mainly concentrated in the epilogue.
High over valleys in the red levelling rays -
In din of crowded streets, going among the years, the faces,
May I still meet my memory in so lonely a place
Between the streams and the red clouds, hearing the curlews, Hearing the horizons endure.

chak_abhi
Posts: 322
Joined: June 24th, 2010, 3:37 pm

Re: Birth of a Lich: SP Campaign Feedback and Reviews

Post by chak_abhi » July 13th, 2012, 7:24 pm

Well then, I will think about this. It will take some time as the whole thing is to be planned afresh. New storyline, new map(s) and most importantly the gameplay. Let me see whether it can be done. Anyway, thanks for the idea. :)

WanderingHero
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Location: Uk, London

Re: Birth of a Lich: SP Campaign Feedback and Reviews

Post by WanderingHero » July 13th, 2012, 10:12 pm

Played some more.

Finding home kinda dragged and I wonder if it had too many on the map before hand. The fact that the dude spawns as soon as YOU see him is kind of annoying since ghosts see much furhter than others. Overall I didn't find it that bad a scenario aside from dragging a bit.
Spoiler:
This is a bit embarrassed but I'm stuck on Start of Retaliation. What am I supposed to do here? The Dwarf leader doesnt seem to recruit much until I reach Lionel, and their seems to be more orcs and trolls than he can handle.

Also Last Stand (though not too bad, since having lots of dwarf vets wasn't actually terribly important afterall), Finding Home and Start of Retaliation seem a bit of a nasty difficulty spike in an otherwise easy-moderate campaign. But I may just be doing SOR wrong or not having enough veterans.

chak_abhi
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Re: Birth of a Lich: SP Campaign Feedback and Reviews

Post by chak_abhi » July 14th, 2012, 2:57 pm

WanderingHero wrote:Played some more.

Finding home kinda dragged and I wonder if it had too many on the map before hand. The fact that the dude spawns as soon as YOU see him is kind of annoying since ghosts see much furhter than others. Overall I didn't find it that bad a scenario aside from dragging a bit.
It is good for the player, at least they can take up defensive positions early and thus prevent themselves from being smashed by the trolls or burnt by the flashing arrows of the archers.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
This is a bit embarrassed but I'm stuck on Start of Retaliation. What am I supposed to do here? The Dwarf leader doesnt seem to recruit much until I reach Lionel, and their seems to be more orcs and trolls than he can handle.
I too faced the problem when I was playing for the first time. Since then I tried a number of modifications to change the behaviour of the dwarf leader, but I am not sure that everything worked fine (evidently it didn't). I will try some more modifications shortly and update the campaign. As for now please try to help the dwarves by diverting the attention of sides 3,5 & 6. The dwarves will have to deal with side 4 alone in the beginning, which I think they can.
Also Last Stand (though not too bad, since having lots of dwarf vets wasn't actually terribly important afterall), Finding Home and Start of Retaliation seem a bit of a nasty difficulty spike in an otherwise easy-moderate campaign. But I may just be doing SOR wrong or not having enough veterans.
Yeah, "Finding Home" is a bit difficult, but here you would seriously want to create as many L2s as you can. The number of dwarves on your side has been reduced to prevent you from being over dependent on them. The remaining of them can help you to advance your undead units. Without the veteran undeads it would be very difficult to continue further. For this reason I had mentioned in my starting post that this campaign is a bit deviation from the usual in some ways.

chak_abhi
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Re: Birth of a Lich: SP Campaign Feedback and Reviews

Post by chak_abhi » July 14th, 2012, 3:17 pm

Version 1.0.1 has been released. It contains some minor modifications like the map in "Last Stand" (2 more villages added) and the behaviour of the enemies in "Start of Retaliation". Hope you will find these interesting.
Please carry on playing "Birth of a Lich". :)

WanderingHero
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Re: Birth of a Lich: SP Campaign Feedback and Reviews

Post by WanderingHero » July 20th, 2012, 2:28 pm

The new version of Start of Retaliation was far more manageable thanks, though I noticed you removed the death knight event (either intentionally or unintentionally) while still leaving the dialogue in.... that seems a bit strange.

The final Scenario works flavour wise but drags on much too. I'd recommend less gold and maybe less income for all sides (Malifor included). I played it for around 2 hours and while I was winning slowly and had built up over 900 reserve gold, i felt disheartened when I FINALLY killed one of the enemy leaders, only to have the others suddenly start spawning a crazy amount of troops. And even before then it was kind of a drag with the long check point bit. It wasn't even challenging, just excessively long and repetitive. ended up debuging to the Epilogue.

The Epilogue is at least well write and I have in general enjoyed the campaign. I still don't think its that much different to DID but it does place an alternate spin on the same idea.

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