The Dark Hordes (Confrontation) Suggestion* Note: Spoiler

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Herkum
Posts: 54
Joined: September 18th, 2004, 2:14 am

The Dark Hordes (Confrontation) Suggestion* Note: Spoiler

Post by Herkum »

I just wanted to suggest a minor change here, the amount of gold for the Green player should be reduced to 2000 GP from 4100 GP.

The reason was he purchases too many units and slows the game to a crawl.

2000 GP should be enough for this player to acccomplish their goal.
PDF
Posts: 47
Joined: December 30th, 2004, 6:33 pm

Re: The Dark Hordes (Confrontation) Suggestion* Note: Spoile

Post by PDF »

Herkum wrote:I just wanted to suggest a minor change here, the amount of gold for the Green player should be reduced to 2000 GP from 4100 GP.

The reason was he purchases too many units and slows the game to a crawl.

2000 GP should be enough for this player to acccomplish their goal.
I've found this scenario plain ridiculous. It's totally demoralizing to see any patiently built experimented undead army fall to a totally impossible enemy, who recruits 10 level 3 units a turn for 10 turns !!! :evil:
And that was on "easy" level !!! :roll:
I've no problem with a scenario where you have to make a withdrawal and could not possibly gain by brute force. I'm just asking that it shoukld not end with all of your armies destroyed.
And as it's only playable "normally" on the first try and has no replay value : on the second try you just have to send your leader to the pass right from the start, just recall what's necessary to kill Leonard and fill the path with zombies.
It's the most disappointing scenario I've ever played. :cry:
I suggest that
- Green Gold should be at most 1000-1500
- Only the leader and maybe a couple units should be level3, optimally the big guys should "appear", and not be recruited, recruits being limited to level 1 and some 2.
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mpolo
Posts: 113
Joined: June 15th, 2004, 8:18 pm

Post by mpolo »

If you have foreknowledge of what's going to happen, you can pretty much get all of your high-level undead into the mountains before the Paladins can run them over. But the level is not much fun once the greens start swarming. It's just "wait and see" if I get them all to the mountains in time.
PDF
Posts: 47
Joined: December 30th, 2004, 6:33 pm

Post by PDF »

mpolo wrote:If you have foreknowledge of what's going to happen, you can pretty much get all of your high-level undead into the mountains before the Paladins can run them over. But the level is not much fun once the greens start swarming. It's just "wait and see" if I get them all to the mountains in time.
That's why the scenario is broken IMHO : you can't do well on the first try because there's no reason to run to the mountain before it has become an objective, and it's not fun thereafter because you "exploit" the scenario.
In the end the scenario is never fun ... :cry:

To make it work, the mountain pass should be behind the General fortress, the Paladins should arrive on a random side (left or right), and have much, much less units. Fighting them (part of them) should be a rather "bad" options but with a small chance to win at easier levels, barely and with huge losses.
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Circon
Posts: 1200
Joined: November 17th, 2003, 4:26 am
Location: Right behind Gwiti, coding

Post by Circon »

Yes, I know it's broken, and I'm working on a better way to force you into the mountains to avoid EP going "But I killed him, why do I go to the mountains anyway" on one side, and the "He's invincible" problem on the other side.

The Dark Hordes is under reconstruction and the last two levels are not properly balanced.
PDF
Posts: 47
Joined: December 30th, 2004, 6:33 pm

Post by PDF »

Circon wrote:Yes, I know it's broken, and I'm working on a better way to force you into the mountains to avoid EP going "But I killed him, why do I go to the mountains anyway" on one side, and the "He's invincible" problem on the other side.

The Dark Hordes is under reconstruction and the last two levels are not properly balanced.
Hum, sorry if I've been a little harsh ... :oops: It was in the middle of the fight !
I'd suggest you change the campaign story: for example Confrontation could become a "Border fight" where the undead try to break into Wesnoth - against rather weak troops (Leonard) as it is now plus some powerful paladins/mages as reinforcement (Aretu and a retinue of level 2-3s) .
If the player think he can't win he could have the option to get through the mountain, (Underground pool).
If he wins he goes directly to a real big "confrontation" battle against the Loyalists . If he goes through the pool he also arrives there, with orc allies, but Loyalists will then also have allies (elves, rogues, ...), resulting in a bigger and rather more difficult battle.

And while I'm at it :
I've found the Crenalus Book scen quite easy (just swamp enemies with Corpses as long as you have enough gold to buy tons of them). I suggest to make less recruit tiles available and have less of them at harder diff (currently there's 20 of them approx, stg like 16 easy - 12 medium -9 hard would be best IMHO)
OTOH, Underground pool is rather hard, especially on first try, because undead advance very slowly in caves (flyers excepted..), and the 1-hex tunnels make movement very difficult due to congestion. Even in 48 turns in Easy mode you have to be very fast - without knowing it at first ! The fights are rather easy also, why not widen some caves tunnels and give more gold/troops to dwarves ?

Overall I've enjoyed this campaign (pretty cool to have an Ancient Lich !)
except for the Confrontation scen, but the current endings are somewhat disappointing. Hope to see a revised version soon !
:wink:
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ott
Inactive Developer
Posts: 838
Joined: September 28th, 2004, 10:20 am

Post by ott »

Circon wrote:The Dark Hordes is under reconstruction and the last two levels are not properly balanced.
How are you planning to deal with the most recent nerfing of Wraiths and Walking Corpses? Wraiths can no longer go beyond max HP's, and have had their resistances reduced, while WC's now have no ZOC. These would probably require changes to my walkthrough, if not a totally different strategy. The use of WCs to slow down the Paladins in Mages and Elves probably needs to be revised.
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