Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

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AxalaraFlame
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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by AxalaraFlame » July 4th, 2012, 8:45 am

Ok, I am back. Hang on a sec and I copy my maps here. Some very astonishing things are spotted this time!

Complete scenerio1 stuff:
The residues of scenerio1:
1. Map updates and changes on villages.
I have checked over scenerio1 map and made more careful modifications. I think the enemy should start with two villages near him (on this new map), with one more village on the sideway which we struggle to hold or take a stragetic withdrawal. I erased the swamp village because we cannot take and hold it by any means, so its existance is of full worthlessness. However, it is very ironic that I dunno the principle to draw a starting village area of one particular side’s...I only know how to give this side villages one after one by [/capture_village] demands. Please fix it and teach me, bro. I am counting on you.
Add these stuff to the enemy side:
[capture_village]
x,y=16,32
side=2
[/capture_village]
[capture_village]
x,y=21,28
side=2
[/capture_village]
But what I found is the enemy will automatically start with these two villages with no reasons...as I said, I am still a newbie of these programming stuff. I don't really get it. :(
The mid castle is fixed. Great trees are added. Trees growing across all four seasons (which is laughable, hehehe…) is fixed, with the season determined at early autumn. The southern side of the river is changed to be more desolated and deserted. Upload here.
01_Attack_Of_The_Undead.map
(15.3 KiB) Downloaded 259 times
Of course, that will need to eliminate the relate variable sentenses, or that will mean no differences:
......
[value]
x,y=1131
[/value]
[value]
x,y=20,1
[/value]
[value]
x,y=17,2
[/value]
[value]
x,y=20,3
[/value]
[value]
x,y=9,5
[/value]
[value]
x,y=15,5
[/value]
[value]
x,y=12,7
[/value]
[value]
x,y=23,7
[/value]
[value]
x,y=9,9
[/value]
[value]
x,y=5,11
[/value]
[value]
x,y=26,12
[/value]
[value]
x,y=11,13
[/value]
[value]
x,y=15,14
[/value]
[value]
x,y=22,14
[/value]
[value]
x,y=5,19
[/value]
[value]
x,y=16,21 *Eliminate this sentence*
[/value]

[value]
x,y=2,24
[/value]
[value]
x,y=22,19
[/value]
[value]
x,y=4,31
[/value]
[value]
x,y=11,33
[/value]
[/set_variables]
#enddef
......


2. Unbelieveable Gold.
My greatest confusion in this scenerio is: with 27 turns, the enemy who gets 8 corpses in maxium in a turn couldn’t even use up $1920!! The gold ammount is too ridiculous, and changed as:
#ifdef EASY
gold=1408(the gold he will require to keep swarming corpses for 22 turns, 176 zombies)
#else
gold=1728(the maxium ammount he can use within 27 turns, 216 zombies)
#endif

3. Let us talk about the damned conscription list again
The young lord Antar will get a full conscription list after scenrio2, which is a considerably early stage. Hopefully the sonner scenerios are about the wars between three-race alliance and undead, maybe some orcs to interfere but won’t mean big threats.
I still highly recommend you to erase Sergeant out of the list. But if you insist, ok then. A better solution, considering the fact that sergeants are fairly weak in this UMC, is to give these two recruited sergeants a buff. “Loyal” trait, free recall, or enhanced weapons by Dagor’s holy bless are all good ideas. I hope you can think it over.
I found that I forgot one thing: bowman. Bowman is very very useless. I did not even get one in the campaign till the end of current scenerios, and I don’t expect great changes on battle style in later stage. Just earse it! Someday you will get the help of some solicitous “local residents” and you was determinely to get it. You will be able to recruit Thug and Footpad. Five units in the main list will be more than enough. Let alone after scenrio 12, when this small local undead menace became a national threats, you will meet the king and get mages in.
Last edited by AxalaraFlame on July 4th, 2012, 9:16 am, edited 3 times in total.

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AxalaraFlame
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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by AxalaraFlame » July 4th, 2012, 9:02 am

Tell moderators don't merge them into one. That is not convenient to check.

Now let us move on to Scenerio2

It is a normal scenerio, without very special spots to search around. It is still an undead massacre feast. After a fierce war in scenerio1 players need some time to relax, so here comes this breathing room, serves the campaign’s structure and gaming balance well. There is no essential defects to fix here. :)

However, scenerio1 is after all a warming up scenerio. You said “no noobs can pass through it”. while if players find the gist, scenerio1 is only a troop-training scenerio. Scenerio2 can be also designed extremely hard.

Let us check over the map and see what is going on here.
Objective: send all dead to Hel
--In this map there are two desolated keeps in the middle, where you will face the enemy’s vanguard force and recruit reinforcements.--


To improve:
1.the map.
It has many minor flaws which cause inconvenience and irrationality, say, two villages are on the east border, beach sands are used in mountains while desert sands are used in banks, the castles on the southern side of the river should be ruined due to undead attack…
These details are fixed carefully. Upload here.
02_Lord_Veogwyn.map
(20.78 KiB) Downloaded 265 times
2. the ally
His conscription list is a very unwitting one. IMO he should get some HI, spearman and cavalry. Bowman are just useless in this whole campaign; horseman is too unstable to apply into a campaign for the high price, let alone it is unworthy. The “sergeant” thing in the list is absolutely ridiculous.
Oringinal:
recruit= Spearman, Bowman, Horseman, Sergeant, Heavy Infantryman, Cavalryman
Change it as:
#ifdef EASY
recruit= Swordsman, Heavy Infantryman, Cavalryman
#else
recruit= Spearman, Heavy Infantryman, Cavalryman
#endif

3. a little flaw in side 4
It is a fake side to govern over all wandering skeletons and adepts and to provoke them fight for undead. One thing I don’t quite understand is why did you give this leaderless side a recruit list? :? Just erase it, bro.

4. The dialogue check
I wonder if your native speaker friend has done that for you. It is really not a good drama. I am only here reminding you to eliminate all the annoying blanks, and, the use of some terms.

5. Starting Villages
[capture_village]
x,y=15,4
side=2
[/capture_village]
[capture_village]
x,y=19,1
side=2
[/capture_village]
[capture_village]
x,y=21,1
side=2
[/capture_village]
[capture_village]
x,y=36,13
side=2
[/capture_village]
This is the villages which our ally started with. Honestly it is very disappointing. Because they techniacally should have many more than that. I will upload my suggestions soon.


6. Guardians
{AsoR_GENERIC_GUARD_UNIT 2 (Spearman) 22 8}
{GENERIC_UNIT 2 (Heavy Infantryman) 23 9}
{AsoR_GENERIC_GUARD_UNIT 2 (Bowman) 24 9}
{GENERIC_UNIT 2 (Spearman) 28 8}
{GENERIC_UNIT 2 (Bowman) 28 7}
{AsoR_GENERIC_GUARD_UNIT 2 (Spearman) 29 6}
{AsoR_GENERIC_GUARD_UNIT 2 (Swordsman) 29 5}
{AsoR_GENERIC_GUARD_UNIT 2 (Bowman) 30 6}
{GENERIC_UNIT 2 (Spearman) 37 5}
{AsoR_GENERIC_GUARD_UNIT 2 (Swordsman) 32 3}
To elaborate this with you, here I present this picture and let the audience see what is wrong:
these are the places where your guardians stands.JPG
Did you see that? I think you generated wrong units on totally wrong positions. Think it over, bro. We don’t share the view with our ally, so they stand aside the Lord is not a worth considering setting. Not to mention there are so few HIs and Swordsman but so many spearman and bowman, not EVEN to mention they are standing on so inner places, without any men to defend the outpost and two north villages.
I will check better positions for you.

No bug is spotted. :)

I hope you are ready to resist an impact to this campaign, because scenerio3 really has great design flaws, and we need not only to nurse it, but make deep operations. I will complete a long topic for you.
Last edited by AxalaraFlame on July 4th, 2012, 9:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by AxalaraFlame » July 4th, 2012, 9:05 am

A bug!

I cannot test this campaign anymore because a same bug jinxed me once again when I was playing your new version. See what happened here!
a serious bug, at turn13, cause many bad luck later
a serious bug, at turn13, cause many bad luck later
I have played it many many times, and each time when I am beating zombies to turn 13, NOTICE, TURN13, all my damage taken statistics will be eliminated to zero. I wish you will find a way to destroy it, or the later scenerios are really infernal! :augh:



Hu... :whistle: Typing these many words really break fingers. I will have many many business to deal with these days so I am not gonna come back to see you these days. Have your own fun, bro!

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Adamant14
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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by Adamant14 » July 4th, 2012, 5:02 pm

AxalaraFlame wrote:A bug!

I cannot test this campaign anymore because a same bug jinxed me once again when I was playing your new version. See what happened here!
a serious bug, at turn13, cause many bad luck later.jpg
I have played it many many times, and each time when I am beating zombies to turn 13, NOTICE, TURN13, all my damage taken statistics will be eliminated to zero. I wish you will find a way to destroy it, or the later scenerios are really infernal! :augh:
I have no Idea what causes this bug, but I am not able to reproduce it.
On my computer everything works fine. Even on, or after turn 13.
Everything works as it should.

Did anybody else noticed this bug?
Author of Antar, Son of Rheor ( SP Campaign) | Development Thread + Feedback Thread + Replays of ASoR

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taptap
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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by taptap » July 4th, 2012, 5:59 pm

@AxalaraFlame: I like the ability to recruit sergeants in a campaign - if you dislike L4 leadership it is really your own fault. Complaining about bowmen in MP is fine, but saying bowmen are useless in a campaign - especially when you don't even know what kind of enemy you will see - is clearly misinformed, especially when the levelled up versions are fairly good. (You will have to look long for another ranged unit that combines 67 HP and 44 damage potential (+ ToD bonus) with a decent 8-3 secondary melee in a single L3 unit. The elvish archers impress in forests, but as soon as they don't find a forest to hide the humble human Master Bowman might in fact do better.)
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by Adamant14 » July 4th, 2012, 6:13 pm

Thank you taptap for your perfect explanation. :)
̶F̶̶o̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶m̶̶e̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶B̶̶o̶̶w̶̶m̶̶a̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶i̶̶t̶̶h̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶e̶̶i̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶a̶̶n̶̶g̶̶e̶̶d̶̶-̶̶a̶̶t̶̶t̶̶a̶̶c̶̶k̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶r̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶k̶̶e̶̶y̶̶ ̶̶u̶̶n̶̶i̶̶t̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶o̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶i̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶i̶̶r̶̶s̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶c̶̶e̶̶n̶̶a̶̶r̶̶i̶̶o̶̶ ̶̶e̶̶a̶̶s̶̶i̶̶l̶̶y̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶ ̶̶(̶̶B̶̶o̶̶w̶̶m̶̶a̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶n̶̶d̶̶ ̶̶m̶̶o̶̶u̶̶n̶̶t̶̶e̶̶d̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶r̶̶o̶̶o̶̶p̶̶s̶̶)̶̶:eng:
Walking Corpses have no ranged attack, so Bowman can do a pretty good damage on the Walking Corpses without any counter-strikes while attacking.
They are really not 'useless'! :wink:


Because taptap explained (better than I have could) why Bowman and Sergeant are no useless units, I will loose no more words about it.

Thank you taptap :)


EDIT:
After Axalara's post I played the first scenario three times complete without Bowman.
Only Spearman and Cavalryman, and three Horseman in the last few turns.
And now I must say Spearman is the better choice than Bowman.

To win the first scenario quick, recruit Spearman and Cavalryman. :eng:

Sorry Axalara :)
Last edited by Adamant14 on July 5th, 2012, 5:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Author of Antar, Son of Rheor ( SP Campaign) | Development Thread + Feedback Thread + Replays of ASoR

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Kanzil
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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by Kanzil » July 4th, 2012, 8:14 pm

In reply to Axalara Flame's comment I would like to say that I am working on the dialogue in co-operation with Adamant14( and yes, I am a native speaker).
High over valleys in the red levelling rays -
In din of crowded streets, going among the years, the faces,
May I still meet my memory in so lonely a place
Between the streams and the red clouds, hearing the curlews, Hearing the horizons endure.

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Adamant14
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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by Adamant14 » July 4th, 2012, 9:23 pm

@Kanzil:

This is a misunderstanding. :P
I have not yet added your improvements.
I still have to decide what I take and which not.

He speaks of Daravel's English.
But Daravel is English and therefore also 'native speaker'.

Sorry for the delay. :oops:
I really like your improvements, :D
and I think I will take over most of them.
The only thing is that you use a lot of words that a non-English-speaker probably don't understand.
Kanzil wrote:... I'm writing with slightly irregular syntax, to reflect the grammar of the time, ...
For me (my English is really poor) is your text much harder to understand, than Daravel's.
And I fear a bit that other non-native-speker's don't understand your text as good as Daravel's text.
But I like it, I like what is different.
I just have not the comprehension to evaluate what words are to difficult, and which not. :augh:
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AxalaraFlame
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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by AxalaraFlame » July 13th, 2012, 9:16 am

Hi Admant. I remade your Scenerio1 Dialogue. I believe it can be applied very soon.

I always wanna tell you one opinion, but I always forget it. Today I must tell you, you'd better change the campaign's name. It is long and not appealing, with even a comma in it makes it not cool.

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Kanzil
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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by Kanzil » July 13th, 2012, 9:36 am

But it would be difficult to think up another name- it is not a grand sweeping epic like AtS or a great chronicle of history like Heir to the throne. Nothing momentous happens in it(no big battles, or events), what there is are some very interesting and innovative scenarios. The plot is not very central to it, and there isn't much of it- therefore it's difficult to think of a suitable name.

However, I have suggested an ending to Adamant14 which would make the plot more interesting, would connect it to existing history, and would be suitable for a whole host of interesting names. However, because the last 8 scenarios are not complete yet it would not be good to give the player false impressions of the campaign, and what will happen in it, else they may expect something they, at the moment, won't recieve. If it is given a name like " The coming of darkness" the player would expect an epic campaign spanning the whole history of Wesnoth- not a campaign about a young noble saving his two neighbours.

The best point at which to re-name it would be when it is complete, so one can be chosen which fits the whole story, which even Adamant14 may not have completely thought out.
High over valleys in the red levelling rays -
In din of crowded streets, going among the years, the faces,
May I still meet my memory in so lonely a place
Between the streams and the red clouds, hearing the curlews, Hearing the horizons endure.

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taptap
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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by taptap » July 13th, 2012, 10:02 am

No need to call a 19 digit name long. As opposed to what? "Heir to the Throne" (18 digits), "Descent into Darkness" (21 digits), "Fate of a Princess" (18 digits), "Under the burning suns" (22 digits), "Invasion from the Unknown" (25 digits)... In fact the Master-at-Arms in the campaign picture was enough for me to be interested instantly, a fencer hero is a rare sight in Wesnoth after all. And of course the mountain pass with the goblins was fairly innovative in my book, because the goblins play very differently than other enemies you have seen in other running scenarios - it really is break through and keep in formation play. The burning forest was well done too, although not entirely an innovation.

I would like to see Adamant writing the second half of the campaign before spending too much time on perfecting the first.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

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quincy
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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by quincy » July 16th, 2012, 2:05 pm

I think in the first scenario the scared peasant should be wounded.

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Adamant14
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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by Adamant14 » July 16th, 2012, 2:39 pm

quincy wrote:I think in the first scenario the scared peasant should be wounded.
Good idea. :)
Even if you are not the first who suggested that that.

I will change it for the next upload.
Author of Antar, Son of Rheor ( SP Campaign) | Development Thread + Feedback Thread + Replays of ASoR

direfish
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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by direfish » July 17th, 2012, 11:04 am

In the scenario where you first meet the elves, you get to play for both Antar and elven leader. I believe elves should be controlled by AI.
Good campaign overall.

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Adamant14
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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by Adamant14 » July 17th, 2012, 3:04 pm

direfish wrote:In the scenario where you first meet the elves, you get to play for both Antar and elven leader. I believe elves should be controlled by AI.
No, that is intended, because the Elfes get there own scenarios later. :)
direfish wrote: Good campaign overall.
Thank you. :)
Author of Antar, Son of Rheor ( SP Campaign) | Development Thread + Feedback Thread + Replays of ASoR

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