Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

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Re: Antar, son of Rheor

Post by shadowm » June 12th, 2012, 7:26 am

Ninjuri wrote:Hey i've never DLed a campaign before, could you tell me how so i can get this one?
The easiest way would be to connect to the add-ons server (the Add-ons button on the main menu) and find the add-on you want to download, for example by typing its name into the Filter box at the top. Also note that not all add-ons are campaigns — watch the Type column. Once installed, campaigns appear in the Campaigns menu, usually below mainline campaigns.

EDIT: MetalKing, nothing of what you said below makes sense to me, but this isn’t the place for it. Make a new topic if you want.
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Re: Antar, son of Rheor

Post by MetalKing » June 12th, 2012, 2:23 pm

shadowmaster wrote:
Ninjuri wrote:Hey i've never DLed a campaign before, could you tell me how so i can get this one?
The easiest way would be to connect to the add-ons server (the Add-ons button on the main menu) and find the add-on you want to download, for example by typing its name into the Filter box at the top. Also note that not all add-ons are campaigns — watch the Type column. Once installed, campaigns appear in the Campaigns menu, usually below mainline campaigns.
I advice a "manual" Link to surf there on the Site-HomePage as it's the Way some have to if their surf-engine is not their Game-Engine and Surfer new to Wesnoth can see there is alot of Stuff.
"Sir! We are surrounded by our enemies!" - "Excellent ! We can attack in every direction!"
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Re: Antar, son of Rheor

Post by AxalaraFlame » June 15th, 2012, 3:58 am

Oh admant, I forget something for u.

The complete analyse of scenrio1
The campaign’s objectives are quite clear (mostly “kill the enemy leaders”), campaign balance is well done; I feel neither too easy nor too hard when having fun at nightmare level. Maybe it should be harder? Dunno. Even if most of our job is to kill kill and kill, the author is enough creative to introduced many causualities to surprise me. For the oinginal Antar’s story, it does not have many elements to make sense. The UMC focuses on build up intensed and exciting war scenerios, the reasonability and rationality are largely ignored. The slangs what characters speak, the geography, the traditional characteristics of elves is presented in a ridiculous way. However, all those are minor design flaws; it does not matter much about the good masscaring style design.

The bad english dialogue is a general problem to improve. Even I, not a native speaker, feel it weird. I will elaborate them AFAIK, but I could only provide you very limited information, since I am not a native speaker either.

To fix these flaws, let us start from the beginning.

Scenerio1.
Objective: Destroy the UD adept.
This starting scenerio is a good one, which can even be considered as a model. Technically speaking, with that gold given at even highest difficulty, I can resist such foolish attack and feed my troops exp forever and get endless ammounts of hardened ones if the turns limit permits. The enemies are set as “aggressive”, which cause them to suicide a lot, inspite of them having 1920 gold and swarm only lv0s. In this way the enemy’s population won’t grow forever, instead, decrease fiercely if you send troops to get close to them, suck in fire and give good kill number in a turn.

This scenerio is so delicately balanced, that I want to recommend it as a model. It has these characteristics presented below:
1.As the first scenerio, it does not give a frustrating blow on players. Instead, quite easy to accomplish. You are also welcomed to get lots of hardened troops.
Such kinds of design flaws can be found in many campaigns, including HttT and EI.
2.The time you wanna resist is actually alternative. Your preferences results in different consequences.
If you resist longer and kill more, you will get more lv2s; resist fewer turns and launch a quick assault to put down the enemy leader, you can get good ammounts of bonus gold. You can pick either.
I killed half of the enemy, about 1130+, and suicide some intelligent units which I don’t prefer in campaigns to attract enemy firepower and break (actually suck in) the living shield of zombies.

The compliments are over, let us see what kind of anti-climatic things need to fix here:
1. This scenerio’s events are not well related to each other.
In this scenerio, the UD army comes just a little moment after Antar’s father had left. This is very unbelieveable…at least you should set them as “arrives a few days later”.
2. A bug is spotted:
I took an enemy village; if few turns later I were forced to retreat, when the enemy retake the village, they will still get 3 more zombies.
3. A bug is spotted:
When the enemy take my village and get walking corpses, all corpses are moveable. They are new zombies, should start without mobility in the first turn.
4.Enemy gold
On easy level, it is 1566; else, 1920. It is not necessary because the enemy can’t even use up half of this money. This gold ammount setting here can only shock down noobs, but doesn’t necessarily mean something useful.
5. Conscription list needs remodification.
Spearman, bowman, cavalryman, horseman, and…sergeant!? Nonono…sergeant sucks! Their existance will largely depreciate lv4 leadership in this campaign. What’s more, this campiagn is a normal scale one. Four lv4 leaders will not necessarily mean greater help than two, not to mention you need 300+exp to train one. Once the players get them leveled, they still have to pay considerable ammmounts of upkeeps for them. And they will find them quite trashy in combats!
Athough training leadership units always looks seductive, many people will give a try, even I have got two; but soon I found that I will never need them once again, because the war is too fierce to put them into use. On open plains, dragoon rules; on smaller maps, HI rules, Antar+Careonryn leadership will be much more than enough. You don’t want gamers feel they are fooled after all, right?
6.A demi-bug spotted:
I use 1.10.3 version to give a first try when the first time we meet, and I copied your campaign and first two scenerios’ replay to my laptop. I use 1.10.2 version here, but the save is valid. When I start it on the third scenerio and check the statistics…oh dear!! It shows I am more than +4000% taken in advance of AI! I read those replays, they soon spams out of sync, only to let me see all my horses become bowmans and the enemy leader is standing there doing nothing. I never save/load, and I remember the statistics should be +-9%. The RNG jinxed me a lot in latter scenerios and bring me great bad luck, trying to even its score. Finally, I finished the campaign with +270% taken, and the AI suck back 57%. All because this damned scenerio, the AI count all their corpses as my killed and consider me inflicting no damage at all!
I don’t think this is a killable bug, but anyway…reported here.
7. Map.
The swamp village at the middle of the map (16,21) is a very quirky one. It is neutral, but it is at the southern side of the river. The enemy can surely take it after few turns, while we do can take it, have no way to hold it. So in a word it is destined to be a doomed village and gonna give them 3 corpses after all. Does that have any meaningful uses?
The enemy has village (25,22) at the beginning. This village is too far from us to make sense to be ours, but honestly, nor do it locates close enough to make sense to be theirs.
Some hexes near the swamp and villages are deep water hexes. That is irrational.
We should start with all villages in the northern side of the river at the beginning. This place is our fiet. I suggest the the border should be set from hex (1,21) to hex (3,21).
The middle outpost fortress is an encampment castle. This is irrational. It should be a ruined castle or some other thing.

When I was editing your map, I found a very starnge thing and I dunno how did you make it: how did you manage to draw a “Hill Stone Village” hex without the hills? Regardless of all those above, I edited the map and upload here; hope you can check it some time.

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Re: Antar, son of Rheor

Post by Adamant14 » June 15th, 2012, 3:36 pm

AxalaraFlame wrote: The bad english dialogue is a general problem to improve. Even I, not a native speaker, feel it weird. I will elaborate them AFAIK, but I could only provide you very limited information, since I am not a native speaker either.
The whole text is checked by native English speakers, so I think the problem is my poor text, and not the translation. :(
Maybe someday a native English speaker who is also a good storywriter, playes this campaign and is willing to help me to make the text more attractive.
AxalaraFlame wrote:In this scenerio, the UD army comes just a little moment after Antar’s father had left. This is very unbelieveable…at least you should set them as “arrives a few days later”.
This is a really good point. I think I change it the way you suggested.
AxalaraFlame wrote:3. A bug is spotted:
When the enemy take my village and get walking corpses, all corpses are moveable. They are new zombies, should start without mobility in the first turn.
Hm, I think this is also a good point.
I will change it in EASY and NORMAL, but not on HARD.
You wrote in your post HARD should be harder. So I don't change it on HARD.
AxalaraFlame wrote: 4.Enemy gold
On easy level, it is 1566; else, 1920. It is not necessary because the enemy can’t even use up half of this money. This gold ammount setting here can only shock down noobs, but doesn’t necessarily mean something useful.
I'm sure a Noob can not win the first scenario, neither on EASY. A Noob shouldn't try to play this scenario.
AxalaraFlame wrote: 5. Conscription list needs remodification.
Spearman, bowman, cavalryman, horseman, and…sergeant!? Nonono…sergeant sucks! Their existance will largely depreciate lv4 leadership in this campaign. What’s more, this campiagn is a normal scale one. Four lv4 leaders will not necessarily mean greater help than two, not to mention you need 300+exp to train one. Once the players get them leveled, they still have to pay considerable ammmounts of upkeeps for them. And they will find them quite trashy in combats!
Athough training leadership units always looks seductive, many people will give a try, even I have got two; but soon I found that I will never need them once again, because the war is too fierce to put them into use. On open plains, dragoon rules; on smaller maps, HI rules, Antar+Careonryn leadership will be much more than enough. You don’t want gamers feel they are fooled after all, right?
The player can choose for his self wheather he want to recruit a Sergeant, or not. He isn't forced to do it. So where is the problem? :)
AxalaraFlame wrote:7. Map.
The swamp village at the middle of the map (16,21) is a very quirky one. It is neutral, but it is at the southern side of the river. The enemy can surely take it after few turns, while we do can take it, have no way to hold it. So in a word it is destined to be a doomed village and gonna give them 3 corpses after all. Does that have any meaningful uses?
Yes, it should show the player what will happen if he is not able to shield his villages. It is not meant to get rescued. :twisted:
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Re: Antar, son of Rheor

Post by AxalaraFlame » June 16th, 2012, 2:08 am

Admant, I am departing to capital city few hours later, and I cannot upload the map here. The dialogue check will be sent to your PM box because I am not native speaker either, it will be shame on me if I posted in public, right? :wink:

Check the second point; I am quite sure it is also a bug:
2. A bug is spotted:
I took an enemy village; if few turns later I were forced to retreat, when the enemy retake the village, they will still get 3 more zombies.
For point five, the problem is it is useless, not it is alternative. But anyway if you instst. :)

For point four...well, the problem is not "a noob cannot pass through" either. I name it out for the reason that this money setting is unnecessary, not too hard.
BTW, a noob cannot beat anything :mrgreen:

Please check point6.

Have a nice day! :)

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Re: Antar, son of Rheor

Post by Adamant14 » June 16th, 2012, 9:27 am

AxalaraFlame wrote:
Check the second point; I am quite sure it is also a bug:
2. A bug is spotted:
I took an enemy village; if few turns later I were forced to retreat, when the enemy retake the village, they will still get 3 more zombies.
If it was really an enemy village, the it is a bug, yes. :hmm:
But it it was just a neutral village without a owner, then it is not a bug, then it is indeed intended.
If Undead capture one of your (side=1) villages, then more Undead will be spawned.
And it doesn't matter whether you had this village from the start, or not. :eng:

So can you tell me please, was it a enemy village or a neutral village?
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Re: Antar, son of Rheor

Post by Kanzil » June 16th, 2012, 11:55 am

I've been playing through the campaign as advised, and have found a bug. Whenever you have a chest, it shows me the error:"Image not found"


P.S I will post the first scenario to you soon :D
High over valleys in the red levelling rays -
In din of crowded streets, going among the years, the faces,
May I still meet my memory in so lonely a place
Between the streams and the red clouds, hearing the curlews, Hearing the horizons endure.

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Re: Antar, son of Rheor

Post by AxalaraFlame » June 16th, 2012, 1:08 pm

Oh Adamant, it is an enemy village. And this bug take place in all these situations below:
1. If a village belongs to the enemy, I take it, and some time later the enemy takes it back, it swarms 3 zombies. :x
2. If I have a village, the enemy takes it, they get 3 zombies; I take it back, and...soon the enemy takes it back again, they still get 3 zombies :annoyed:
3. If a village is neutral, I take it, and later the enemy take it and swarm 3 zombies, and later I take it back, and later the enemy take it back again...they still get 3 zombies!
4. If I and the AI takes a village back and forth, each time they get it back, they get 3 zombies----each time!!

So the problem is not whether the village is neutral or not; it is that the enemy can get countless zombies if they can take/abandon/retake it again and again.
I think you did not set a repeat counter to restrict the times of enemy swarming zombies by one same village, but I dunno how to make it.

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Re: Antar, son of Rheor

Post by Adamant14 » June 16th, 2012, 1:16 pm

AxalaraFlame wrote:Oh Adamant, it is an enemy village. And this bug take place in all these situations below:
1. If a village belongs to the enemy, I take it, and some time later the enemy takes it back, it swarms 3 zombies. :x
2. If I have a village, the enemy takes it, they get 3 zombies; I take it back, and...soon the enemy takes it back again, they still get 3 zombies :annoyed:
3. If a village is neutral, I take it, and later the enemy take it and swarm 3 zombies, and later I take it back, and later the enemy take it back again...they still get 3 zombies!
4. If I and the AI takes a village back and forth, each time they get it back, they get 3 zombies----each time!!

So the problem is not whether the village is neutral or not; it is that the enemy can get countless zombies if they can take/abandon/retake it again and again.
I think you did not set a repeat counter to restrict the times of enemy swarming zombies by one same village, but I dunno how to make it.
If this is true I wonder why I never noticed it. :doh:
Or why nobody else mentioned it. :?:

OK I'll check it.

Thanks for reporting.
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Re: Antar, son of Rheor

Post by AxalaraFlame » June 16th, 2012, 1:19 pm

shall I send the dialogue check to you now? It seems that you are online.

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Re: Antar, son of Rheor

Post by Adamant14 » June 16th, 2012, 1:32 pm

Adamant14 wrote:
AxalaraFlame wrote:Oh Adamant, it is an enemy village. And this bug take place in all these situations below:
1. If a village belongs to the enemy, I take it, and some time later the enemy takes it back, it swarms 3 zombies. :x
2. If I have a village, the enemy takes it, they get 3 zombies; I take it back, and...soon the enemy takes it back again, they still get 3 zombies :annoyed:
3. If a village is neutral, I take it, and later the enemy take it and swarm 3 zombies, and later I take it back, and later the enemy take it back again...they still get 3 zombies!
4. If I and the AI takes a village back and forth, each time they get it back, they get 3 zombies----each time!!

So the problem is not whether the village is neutral or not; it is that the enemy can get countless zombies if they can take/abandon/retake it again and again.
I think you did not set a repeat counter to restrict the times of enemy swarming zombies by one same village, but I dunno how to make it.
If this is true I wonder why I never noticed it. :doh:
Or why nobody else mentioned it. :?:

OK I'll check it.

Thanks for reporting.
I tested the first scenario, and all cases, and I wonder, because everything works as intended.
Every village spawns only one time Undead.
I was not able to reproduce the bug you reported.
I played Antar version 0.8.14 with BfW 1.10.3 on Windows 7.
Which version did you played?
Can you please upload a replay?
Last edited by Adamant14 on June 16th, 2012, 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by AxalaraFlame » June 16th, 2012, 1:37 pm

wait for a while...I found a new version here avaliable! You updated it!?!?! :augh: Why didn't you tell me!! :annoyed:

I have no replays for scenerio 1 and 2, as you can see:
6.A demi-bug spotted:
I use 1.10.3 version to give a first try when the first time we meet, and I copied your campaign and first two scenerios’ replay to my laptop. I use 1.10.2 version here, but the save is valid. When I start it on the third scenerio and check the statistics…oh dear!! It shows I am more than +4000% taken in advance of AI! I read those replays, they soon spams out of sync, only to let me see all my horses become bowmans and the enemy leader is standing there doing nothing. I never save/load, and I remember the statistics should be +-9%. The RNG jinxed me a lot in latter scenerios and bring me great bad luck, trying to even its score. Finally, I finished the campaign with +270% taken, and the AI suck back 57%. All because this damned scenerio, the AI count all their corpses as my killed and consider me inflicting no damage at all!
I don’t think this is a killable bug, but anyway…reported here.
But I can recall that the enemy has swarmed zombies twice by one village before. Did you fix it in this version? Or it could only be I was mistaken.

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Re:

Post by Adamant14 » June 16th, 2012, 11:52 pm

AxalaraFlame wrote:wait for a while...I found a new version here avaliable! You updated it!?!?! :augh: Why didn't you tell me!! :annoyed:

But I can recall that the enemy has swarmed zombies twice by one village before. Did you fix it in this version? Or it could only be I was mistaken.
I didn't change the code of the first scenario for a long time. :hmm:
I am pretty sure that you are mistaken.
Please play the first scenario a second time, and tell me if it happens then or not. :)
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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by AxalaraFlame » July 1st, 2012, 3:13 pm

Bro, sorry for not contacting you, but I am banished from here these days. I am back now. It is a long holiday isn't it? The scenerio2 is ready

I am departing to some other places very soon, now. Maybe I cannot contact you today, sorry. See ya' later

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Re: Antar, Son of Rheor

Post by Espreon » July 4th, 2012, 1:47 am

And sadly, I cannot update the po files since an empty string was marked as translatable (in the first scenario’s file). Just remove the offending underscore and all should be well again.

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