Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Mawmoocn
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Mawmoocn »

>> impossible is at
Whaaa??? I haven't finished my other campaigns and now you do this???? NUUUUUUUU PLEASE GIB CHEATS

jk
That's probably .... I'll use maximum strategy? Looks fun though.

Ah so many changes I really like:
>> you can no longer buy x goods, but type in a number how many goods you want to purchase
I can now farm craft too many items!

I kinda agree that leveling makes things harsher.... spells that give experience is a hard way to play. Though I consider that as a spell nerf. I can probably glitch around it...

Still, I can't wait to play again!


Thank you very much for updating!
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Heindal
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Heindal »

Hi Mawmcoocn,

thanks for the reply. Yeah, but spells don't give so much experience, spells give just exp based on how complicated they are, once they are casted. But you will not receive exp for killing anything with spells. So at least a little bit exp, instead of nothing.

Also note that it might be, that a saved game has still some old features of the game. For this I created the "Doc" in the Temple District of Capital City. You should be able to access new features there and e.g. activated the new heromenu, which is usually "saved" in the save games.

There are Cheats, just try "Easy" the Betatester class and fool around. That's what it's made for. Its a nice way to test the crafting of the customize-able weapons, equipment and spells, songs, summons. Enjoy.
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GreatAlucard
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by GreatAlucard »

Heindal wrote: May 18th, 2020, 11:09 am What I can read here, is that the RPG Mode should be made easier.
Ok, I will check that. Maybe I will change the starting level.

However RPG is for experienced players (experienced players who played through Strange Legacy at least once) and 'rogue' like.
So your 'survival' is not intended, but it's cool to make your own story, instead of following the story-line:

"Suddenly out of nowhere a vile orcish beast appeared surrounded by venomous spiders. Blue shining runes were carved in his blade. You've heard rumors about these abomination called 'Deathblade'. You knew you only chance was to take this foe on a distance or make a run as fast as I could."

You see - this is part of an adventure to die and try again.
This is not exactly what I meant.

High difficulty is fine, desirable even. What I was making reference to is the means used in "Strange Legacy" to achieve that.

The way it currently works is "Higher Level" equals "Higher Difficulty" - which to a certain degree tends to work reasonably well - the point is, I do not believe it works all that well here. Or in other words - I think progression is the issue, not difficulty itself.

A person will want to level up a character to get more powerful, it is fine if enemies in turn also get more powerful, but after a certain point, if enemies get sufficiently more powerful, the power disparity will increase in disfavor of the player - this means, in turn, that leveling up makes your character weaker in relation to your enemy, thus making leveling up undesirable.

This could be fixed if difficulty was tied not only to level, but also to other factors - like "days passed" or certain regions have stronger enemies.

The tutorial also seems to give you the wrong idea when you're learning about spells - it tells you not to "finish" enemies with spells, but instead use attacks, because spells do not give XP. Well if getting XP makes your character weaker in relation to enemies then you'd actually want to do the exact opposite.

This also hurts some character classes greatly - mainly the ones that are more suited for combat, like the bounty hunter, if the bounty hunter does what he is designed to do he will actually be weaker in combat than other classes that do not depend on it, simply because he will over level faster than he can get the equipment to deal with new threats.

Characters that can generate resources without doing XP giving activities, in turn, are the opposite

Granted this effect can be mitigated if you try to finish enemies with skills or spells - to avoid XP - it's still incredibly counter intuitive.

I haven't actually looked at the coding for this but I think you already keep track of days and I do believe that if you could tie the ramping of difficulty not only to level, but also to days passed it'd bring a different feeling, where levelling up is good and where there's also a sense of urgency, since delaying too much makes enemies stronger.



So the short version is - I don't think difficulty is the problem, high difficulty is fine, the problem is that leveling up is currently just not desirable. If you in fact go out of your way to avoid leveling - your character will be more powerful, and this just seems counter intuitive.



Either way I like the addon, so even if this particular design choice stays like this I will probably go for a longer playthrough once it shows up for 1.15, since it does perform sufficiently better for me to warrant the wait.
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Heindal
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Heindal »

Hi GreatAlucard,

Indeed, you have a point here. But I assume that with higher experience, the player will be travelling the world and see the powers and chances it offers. With enough wits you can became very powerful even more powerful than the game can compensate. Without these killer tactics I'm afraid it is not so easy, indeed.

But you will get dexterity, charisma and strength etc. for free by achievements, findings in ruins (free skill points!) or 'words of power' or ancient spells, which unlock within the story. Usually a magician will just cast "Apocalypse" once to get rid of all enemies in a map with one single spell.

In order to get "apocalypse" you of course have to discover and explore the world around you.

The enemy is hard to hit: get a weapon with the "magical" weapon skill?
An enemy can kill you instantly - use spells or skills or just ignore them using teleport.

A greater teleport scroll can even teleport you without using an action - even so I like the idea that a greater teleport scroll works like in "Howl's Moving Castle", but in our case it works like a homeportal.

There are a lot of killer tactics, but the player must find them.

(the-stamina-plattschuss-naga-double-stamina tactic, or the "finish the dratted storyline and get a deadly(!) weapon" tactic, or the "go down the levels in infinite dungeons and find new companion - WHOAA is that a fire dragon CONVINCE" tactic)
Spoiler:
To compensate the incredible power a player can gain, I had to add some nasty things, indeed. Such as enemies with mortal attacks, or who are immune to weapons or spells. I also dislike the idea, that a hero is never in danger. It wouldn't be a hero. A hero shouldn't be the strongest opponent in the room, but the smartest.

Edit:

I also want to note, that level also has a positive aspect on:

- various skills that do "level" damage
- summon units will get the same upgrades as your enemies + a charisma bonus - so they are always stronger than enemies
-- as you can summon epic creatures such as firedragons this is relevant.
- level increases some chances such as crafting (as higher the skill the more experienced the player, the better she/he is)

- however level also has some unseen disadvantage concerning several skill checks, where you have to compensate your level with your skill, for example pick-pocketing and free working. This was to make the game react to the players strength to and avoid the player to bore out. The player can never be too sure, that something works by 100%. In all systems I know it is different and gets boring.
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Moransky
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Moransky »

Which cap have diffenet skills? I've upgraded Pickpocketing through tavern till 101 and then it's stopped. But in Thieves guild after pickpocketing 10 citizens I've got a reward - and now have Pickpocketing 102.
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Heindal
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Heindal »

Hi Moransky,

that's intended. By using pickpocket either in the tavern when on npcs you can increase it up to a max of 100.
There are some ways to extend your maximum level of a skill.

These are unusual ways such as mission rewards, random encounter rewards or archaeological / reading rewards, which allow you to extend your skill even beyond the maximum. So you could extend to any skill infinitely, but it's harder once you reach this "maximum".

While main skills have are capped at 100, other skills such as mining or smithing (forging) have a maximum of 1000.
No matter what skill, there is still a way to even extend each skill over it's maximum.
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TheInfernoDrake
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by TheInfernoDrake »

Hey heindal, I’m not sure if I am missing something or if I am just blind, but how do I leave the infinite dungeons?
Edit: I found a merchant who sells greater teleportation scrolls, are there any other methods?
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Heindal »

Hi TheInfernoDrake,

you can leave infinite dungeons by moving to the point where you entered it. E.g. move down a level and you should be able to identify it.
There should be a ladder or a bright spot nearby to identify it. I could label it, so it's easier for everyone to find out.
Exit.png
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TheInfernoDrake
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by TheInfernoDrake »

Epic, thanks! I never did that
MisterSnuvi
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by MisterSnuvi »

I found some new bugs.
1) Borrowing a book in a temple costs 150 gold. The text after selecting a book states 25.
2) Just a bit odd. Had a snowfall during summer.
3) I'm having miracles in my church with negative karma and without at least 1000 fame (had -92).
4) Church upgrades do not become cheaper by using the architect.
5) The text in the village shrine is invalid "invalid Pango markup".
6) The pray text in the dark temple is invalid "invalid Pango markup".
7) The capital city people attack you by your fame value but shops work with kingdom reputation.
8) Tried to use a firerain scroll in the capital city but no damage was done.
9) My wisp spawned on the map border (inaccessible) in the cave.
19) "Unit-type 'Crap' doesn't exist." in the cave hideout for the scythe part.
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Heindal »

Hi MrSnuvi,

I was just thinking about you, because I added one of the mechanics you suggested a while ago (at least as far as I remember): Slaves.
The next update will be BIG, mainly due to a lot of game changes and improvements, but it will be there soon (hopefully this weekend).

Thanks once more for your bug reports, here the answers:

1) Fixed.
2) I think it's ok, we once had some, but I see I should block snow in summer.
3) Yes, the description was wrong. You can have miracles with low fame, but these are miracles of the 'Twilight' gods. Fixed description.
4) Added.
5) / 6) Fixed
7) The idea is that you can sneak into the city and for example 'rob the bank'. I think it's ok that people still trade with you.
It will however become harder in the update, once the city has a higher 'security' ranking.
8 ) The reason: Fire rain scrolls just hurt a specific side 3 and 4 and not all hostile units.
As the npcs are usually side 2 and just turn hostile, they are not affected. I will fix this later.
9) This is not easy to be changed, I'd say [censored] happens. Just leave the dungeon and reenter it.
If its just a casual random dungeon you can make it without the wisp once.
10) Oh Crap! Fixed


Have a nice day

Heindal
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1.16.10 Strange Legacy - Below the sand

Post by Heindal »

"My liege. Lurking below the sand these vipers are deadly opponents. Fortunately our explorers were able to kill many of them and keep the population low, but recent reports indicate that a larger group of these 'Sand Vipers' are approaching this part of the desert. We also received reports about packs of giant scorpions hiding in the sand and attacking anything that comes to close to their nests. Beside that I want to report about some strange activities near our border. The nomads have caught one these so called 'archaeologists', who performed several 'excavations' in the desert. He had to drop all the items he had looted before. Serves him right!

These artifacts are a precious trading good, I admit, but they are holy to the desert kin. Even so some people say, that these long forgotten artifacts could be used to decipher long forgotten spells and requests to the gods themselves, I believe these are just vague rumors. Nevertheless, the king of the barbarians in the north seems to pay a high sum for anyone, who can deliver artifacts and even plans to build a so called 'museum', where these artifacts are shown. That is my report. May the light protect you, my liege."

Recent report to his majesty. Explorer A. Ibn Fadlan.


The new version is there. I added many things and tested a lot recently in the last months.
I hope this is bug free, but yet away from perfect. I still hope you will like it and give me a feedback.

Summary:

less source code, sounds are overworked and integrated into the game, no more world market but several city markets, faction diplomacy with new army and population options, new spells and equipment, archaelogy as a new spells and various improvements

Fixes:

> repaired some icons for crafting
> fixed treasure location check
> repaired check of stamina for summon skills such as falconry
> 'Meucheln' now consumes all stamina as intended and show the number of current stamina to show potential damage
> you can no longer bribe attackers with beer, except for dwarves as intended.
> repaired army recrute option in your own towns
> repaired pango in the dark temple and village
> erased negotiation option from encounters
> added church to architect option
> repaired wording in church of praying option (due to twilight gods)
> repaired miracle chances for dark prayers in your village shrine
> added twilight god prayer to village and changed praying options
(only one of three options will show)
> enemy units receive less resistance for each player levelup
> made deep water unaccessible for normal heroes
> RPG Mode: improved water movement costs for nagas and merfolk
> RPG Mode: waterupgrade can't be bought by these races


Minor improvements and changes

Cities

> Island Capital improved markets now requires islandreputation to enter, added a hint.
> added hints for missions & stores which tells how to unlock them (requirement) - yes they existed before
> improved desert capital design
> changed some store mechanics in desert, desert capital, dwarvish capital
> vendors in several cities sell consumables and ingredients

Crafting

> armor special "hide" has been replaced by "Lurker"
>> all armor specials show required ingredients, so you can hunt for them
> customize equipment, spells icons with own pictures, by typing a picture path
> customize the overlay of your crafted weapons, 'myoverlay.png' added, which contains a swordhilt only,
>> the rest is up to you and gimp, paint or whatever
> added sandlurker, distract and initiative as new armorspecials for your designable 'Ares' armor

Encounters and raids

> the chance for raids (factions and or bandits) is reduced to 33%, so these raids don't happen over and over again.
instead another random event will be fired
> the only raid that is ignoring this is a new raid called 'slave raid'
> bribes haven been reduced to 100,000 gold, but there is a chance that the enemies attack anyway.
> this chance is decreased once you have a high trading skill, but never 100% sure
> reduced gain of reputation for bribing
> in case of a bandit raid, you can use your reputation with outlaws to get rid of the bandits
>> however this "favor" will cost you some reputation in return.
>> Global event taxes will still take 10% of your gold.
> snow encounters now 4 different maps
> desert encounters now 5 different maps

Spell casting

> changed action check, so that once you open a spell menu it will close if you don't have an action to cast
> reduced the reduced the code for all spells and reduced complexity of damage spells
> spells now have a damage-type
> increased 'Fireball' cost to 2 mana
> stamina spells / skills options now have a better design
> you can no longer pray to the gods of twilight once you have an alignment
(+1000, -1000 fame) yay, wait no :(.

Trading

> added "learn as much as you can" to learn options
> sell options for objects and weapons now show the number of possessed items
> once you meet the requirements, you can gain an interest for your bank account
> improved appearance of weapon buy options

Sounds

> sounds have been integrated into the normal version, I will probably not upgrade the add-on "trader sounds" any more
> Intro has been overworked with the new text lines
> sound concept for spells, the name of the spells will be pronounced before it is casted
>> quite cool, but so far just added for spells with area damage such as Thunderstorm or Sha'Bra

Misc

> a high wildlife skill will double the collected resources such as mushrooms, water, sulfur, grain once high enough
> added a variety of references to the bands and films
> elvish villages now have cool names.
> class 'Betatester' can now be chosen in every difficulty, except rpg (try vampire noble instead hehe)
> you will receive reputation and karma reward for defeating the monsters during a 'monster invasion'
> increased items found when stealing items from the bank
> once a random event triggers a global event you will receive a message
> armies are now way more expensive, merc armies cost a lot of gold, but no weapons
> the maximum number of mercs you can buy from mercs is capped
> added other ways to get armies - see below
> you can now negotiate with orcs (support faction)
> added three new enemies (simes) that are immune to all damage types, except for one
> after an attack or spell, you can no longer change equipment or use consumeables
> you will receive a bounty for each slain monster of a group, during a 'monster invasion' global event
> buying a castle will now include the furniture such as garden etc.
> find Dr. van Kuschelsteins evil twin!!!
> the shrine random event will now grant 5 karma instead of 1
> Snowfall will no longer trigger in winter
> you can no longer access your inventory, consumable or action menu after an attack
> attack potion can now be used using an extra helpmenu

New Content - New Market Mechanic

> each good on a market is a single object and no longer connected to a world market
> each city is now an own market with own prices and stocks
> each city, town and village produces or consumes goods
> majors cities consume goods and produce others
> majors cities consume goods and produce 'population'
> Capital City produces 'security' and / or 'prosperity'
> 'population', 'security' or 'prosperity' unlock new options or change capital city in some ways
> the city production takes places once you enter a new map and is slower than the turn-based production
> Global events shortage and overproduction now affect the stocks of several city markets
> Bank and Museum will just be available when Capital city increases its prosperity
> Successful Bankrobbery reduces the prosperity and security of capital city
> 'White Hacker' - added new Bankrobbery option that increases the security
> you can no longer sell goods to temples or taverns
> your own village slowly produces all goods in it's market, once the castle is claimed
> you can now create an army using your village citizens and weapons

New Diplomacy

> Diplomacy with faction is now an extra menu
> Supporting a faction will increase the population of its capital
> Factions that have negative reputation can be bribed to increase your reputation
> You can now hire armies from factions, which will reduce their population, but is cheap.
> Plundering a faction will decrease it
> Factionreward is granted in diplomacy, too.
> New Option Enslave will allow to enslave the population
>> this will massively reduce the factions reputation
>> slaves can be sold in dark temples slave markets
>> there are rumors about a even more sinister way to use slaves
>> paladins will hunt you if you have slaves, there is a high chance for an encounter
> increasing or decreasing population changes the faction
> successful factions with a lot of population will upgrade their cities
(so far only on the worldmap, except for Captial City and Desert Capital)

New Global Events

> 5 new global events
>> 3 different monster plagues will spawn a specific monstertype on several maps
>> you can defeat these monsters to end the plague and receive a bounty on these monsters
>> as conflicts monster plagues end you gain a decent boost in reputation and karma, when defeating the threat
>> 2 other global events will increase population or decrease security of the capital

New Spells:

> added spells Bladestorm, Needles, Arcanum, Boulder which are compareable with Fireball, but with different damage types
> added Shaa'Bra a powerful orc spell that cause area impact damage and is only available in Black Gates
> new spell terraforming allows to select an own terrain code
> karma spells - "requests"
>> Smite, Slaughter, Tribute, Neutralize, Curse
>> these can be researched in a church using artifacts
>> Smite and Slaughter can be upgraded for more damage and greater costs

New Desert Content:

> new enemies: sand viper, sand scorpion, nomad
> new ability 'sand crawler' that allows to hide on sand terrains
> the encounters in the desert now features scorpions, sand vipers and nomads, aside from ambushes by the dunefolk faction
> added 'sandviperskin' as ingredient that can be scavenged from sand vipers
>> using sand viper skins you can >> summon sandvipers >> attach "sandlurker, distract and initiative" special to armors (Ares)
>> you can sell the skin to nomads or trade it in the black market or royal hunter guild

New Trading good 'Artifacts':

> artifact added as a new pricy product in Capital City
> artifact sites can be discovered in the desert using a new skill called archaeology
> teachers and artifact sites can be found in the desert only
> artifact spots in random dungeon can however reveal artifacts too, if your skill archaeology level is high enough
> artifacts can be spent to develop new karma spells in churches or in your 'Conjuring Circle' in the 2nd floor of your castle
> some spells can be infinitely upgraded with artifacts, which increase damage and costs
> the nomads banned the trade with artifacts and will attack anyone transporting it
> museum in capital city allows you to donate artifacts for fame and karma

New Equipment:

> a hat that increase archaelogy skill by + 10
> a whip that has a decent impact damage and slow effect

New Images:

> several new icons for artifacts, hat etc.
> portraits and images for nomads and sandlurker
> sand scorpions reuses the scorpion original
> new story images
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Spirit_of_Currents
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Spirit_of_Currents »

Here is some feedback.

1. A bug: In the tutorial, I can get as many helmets and bandages as I want. Not redwines however.
2. A bug: In the foodmarket of capital city, some goodies cost no natural number.
3. A bug: When I try to buy spiced-stew in Mainland capital, I lose the money but don’t get the food.
4. Misinformation: Medicine doesn’t remove weak even though the tutorial told i does.
5. A bug: I tried the ”challenging” difficulty and saw

”Seuraavassa lisäosassa oli virhe, eikä sitä voitu ladata: (The following add-on had an error and couldn’t be loaded:)
C:\Users\OMISTAJA\Documents\My Games\Wesnoth1.14/data/add-ons/Trader/_main.cfg

Please report this to the author or maintainer of this add-on.

Details:

Päättämätön sulkeva tagi (I couldn’t translate this to English)
sijainnissa ~add-ons/Trader/utils/utils.cfg:103
included from ~add-ons/Trader/_main.cfg:326
included from ~add-ons/Trader/utils/freemovement.cfg:7450
included from ~add-ons/Trader/_main.cfg:326
included from ~add-ons/Trader/utils/freemovement.cfg:682
included from ~add-ons/Trader/_main.cfg:326
included from ~add-ons/Trader/scenarios/TraderReturn.cfg:9560
included from ~add-ons/Trader/_main.cfg:327

Failed to load the scenario.”

The ”beginner” difficultyhad been fine though.

6. A suggestion: After the reveal of the secret in the orphanshome, make it show in the map hex.
7. A suggestion: In my castle, to be able to store/redraw any number of gold easily to/from my vault.
8. A suggestion: When I drink too much in gossip, no need to move away from the tavern and back in.
9. A question: Why should I increase faith?
10. A question: What happens if I enslave a city?
11. Misinformation: In the ”Orcishsuperweapon” scenario it says ”Victory: Destroy the outpost of the orcs by killing their leader.” I need to destroy the superweapon too.
12. A bug: I bought zero elvenwine, and I got experience and the elvenwine went more expensive.
13. Misinformation: Gossip told taverns still buy booze and ice.
14. A suggestion: an additional option for harder difficulties: the only units you can control are John, his caravan, his ship and the three heroes.
15. A suggestion: an additional option for harder difficulties: you can't do side missions, only story missions.
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Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Heindal »

Hei Spirit,

1. Strange. It is the same code used for the redwine, however the option will still say that you will receive an Oldhelmet, even so you don't. It will even check if you have equipped the old Helmet - I will recheck this - yeah it was the combination of the two variables that caused the problem, it should work now. The bandages could be exploited, however you will be wounded each time you select this option. If you are already wounded you will receive another bandage and second wound. That's true. You will no longer be able to do that.
2. I fixed that. Some production increases the prices, too. The prices weren't rounded.
3. This was due to the - which somehow messed with the variable. I've changed the name to 'mulligan', which isn't perfect.
4. Medicine now will cure weakness as well, even so that's strong it makes sense.
5. Will check and repair this: Edit >> I just started "Challenge" without problems??? Can you be a bit more specific? Maybe it's just a linux problem?
6. Yeah, I will do that. I will add it to the bank, too.
7. Yeah, I will do that.
8. That's intended to hinder players to gossip to often. Maybe I shouldn't allow you to listen to anymore gossip, while being drunk, forcing you to order a coffee.
9. Faith or 'karma' can be used in many ways. There are some spells that use karma instead of mana or stamina, you can pray for a miracle, once you have enough karma, you can buy some mercs for karma in hidden temples. Karma unlocks some options during encounters and random events. Karma is granted for praying in temples and deeds such as doing some side mission.
10. Enslaving a city will mess the reputation with the city, reduce the population of the faction and will give you 'Slaves' as a trading good. So far you just can do 2 things with Slaves. One is to sell them in the slaves market in dark temples (ruins) if your fame is negative (at least -1000) as far as I remember. The second one can be unlocked once you can access the blood altar in the dark temples...
11. Yeah lazyness. It's fixed.
12. Taverns will now buy these things again.
13. No mercs and summons. Yeah that's possible. But there are many ways that can grant additional troops, so it is still hard to prevent everything.
But No Mercs, or No Summons should be easily possible. I was thinking about to add these to the RPG Mode so that your hero has a 'weakness'. Maybe I will add arachnophobia or something like that, which will make you fight worse against some enemies.
14. There are lots of side missions! I think beside that hard scripted adventures (Scarecrow, Haunted Villa etc.), there are around 20 random side missions and random missions given by NPCs. To code that is pretty hard, just for an option.

Thank you for playing and reporting.
Have a nice evening. Hyvää päivänjatkoa!
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses
Spirit_of_Currents
Posts: 87
Joined: April 26th, 2014, 4:44 pm

Re: Strange Legacy - 1.16 RPG World (Markets Upgrade)

Post by Spirit_of_Currents »

5. I have Windows. I tried to start Strange Legacy on challenging and immediately saw:

Virhe

Failed to load the scenario

| Ok |

9. I didn't know faith and karma are the same thing.
12. You missed this market bug.
There are very much electrical currents in my brain.
If I was a mainline unit, I would be an intelligent, resilient Ranger.
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