spells/abilities
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- battlestar
- Posts: 690
- Joined: January 1st, 2007, 7:12 am
spells/abilities
Looking for ideas for names and ideas to balancing of power between each school of magic. I'm writing the wml for these at my own pace... 3 done so far. It's not hard to modify the values afterwards but it's nice to have them ready before coding. The descriptions I have right now are WIP and some are still vague, hence looking for help to fill the gaps. Invoking a spell requires "mana" which will go up one per turn, with maximum of 10.
fire
electrical
cold
afflictions-not a path of spells, just explainations to some effects (coded to abilities):
fire
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
afflictions-not a path of spells, just explainations to some effects (coded to abilities):
Spoiler:
LUA: Llama Under Apprenticeship
Hell faction: completed
Hell faction: completed
- Neuromancer
- Posts: 204
- Joined: September 10th, 2010, 9:49 pm
Re: spells/abilities
I suppose the spells are sorted by their power and by crush/slash you mean impact/blade? Anyways, how hard it will be to learn these spells? Do you want them to be pretty rare, or used quite often on the battlefield? Will the effects and afflictions combine between themselves (for example lightning causes triple dmg against frozen)? Do you intend to use some visual spell-learning interface? Regarding lore, are the spells conjured by calling in the elements, or gods, or some other entity?
- battlestar
- Posts: 690
- Joined: January 1st, 2007, 7:12 am
Re: spells/abilities
crush and slash are meant as impact and blade, aye. I'm thinking of putting this in a campaign, so the spells are learnt/bought/found as it progresses (when it comes up, it'll be with [messages]). Casting interface would be with right click menu to open spell book then [messages] to choose spell; for area of effect spells some may require x, y coordinate input while single effect on enemies require choosing by mouse. There will be 5-7 heroes with 11 paths to choose from, each can only learn one path, hence the need for some balancing... If someone point out one of the spells is interesting to have as a unit ability, I'll consider coding it as a unit ability too (all of them are possible, just takes more work to code as abilities). In that case a unit would be able to have that ability as its created.
Some spells are meant to be casted often while others are not, part of what I'm trying to figure out here is how often each should be used. The frequency is gauged by cost of "mana", which regenerates one per turn. Spells are conjured by costing mana from each hero.
More paths: spells are not listed in any order. EOM means age of myth era units
types of targeting include: single target, self, aura type area of effect, aura effect on chosen enemy, enter coordinates, and global. Globals last as long as they stay on, until dispelled. Three global effects can be active at the same time maximum.
types of effects include: instant damage, damage over time, heals, buffs, curses, summons, morphs, some fairly individualized effects like "wealth channeling", and combinations.
Holy
Bard
Unholy
Problem with undead vengeance is which side should the zombie be on...
Some spells are meant to be casted often while others are not, part of what I'm trying to figure out here is how often each should be used. The frequency is gauged by cost of "mana", which regenerates one per turn. Spells are conjured by costing mana from each hero.
Oo that's interesting, ideas on how each path spells would interact would make this so much more interesting, and would be so much harder to insert if stuff has already been coded.Will the effects and afflictions combine between themselves (for example lightning causes triple dmg against frozen)?
More paths: spells are not listed in any order. EOM means age of myth era units
types of targeting include: single target, self, aura type area of effect, aura effect on chosen enemy, enter coordinates, and global. Globals last as long as they stay on, until dispelled. Three global effects can be active at the same time maximum.
types of effects include: instant damage, damage over time, heals, buffs, curses, summons, morphs, some fairly individualized effects like "wealth channeling", and combinations.
Holy
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
LUA: Llama Under Apprenticeship
Hell faction: completed
Hell faction: completed
- Neuromancer
- Posts: 204
- Joined: September 10th, 2010, 9:49 pm
Re: spells/abilities
I took a time to think and came up with this concept:
Lets divide spells into schools and schools into tiers.
Life tier: Holy, Shadow
Elemental: Water, Fire, Air, Earth
Bard: Bard
One character can learn spells only from one tier. Each school has its own rune. Spells are conjured by combining the runes and mana points. For example, combining each rune from elemental tier and adding one mp creates Elemental ward (X% resist from water, fire, air, earth for Y turns). Using two water and two air runes with two mp creates Blizzard; using two water runes along with one air rune and one mp unleashes the rampage of the frost hydra. Five air runes with 7 points of mana is electrical cyclone and so on, you get the idea.
Runes are learnt/bought/found as the campaign progresses; mana points = unit's level.
Affliction "abuses" can be achieved only through cross-tier combos, for example casting ice shard (elemental tier) on blinded units (from blinding flash - life tier) will cause double damage. In this way, player will be encouraged to use parties of heroes, each one specialized in one tier. I formerly included Bard school into Life tier, but now I think it is better off in its own tier: Bard spells will combine well with afflictions caused by other tiers.
As you can see, this design is kinda off yours, but I think it divides the spells and afflictions into intuitive and interesting system. I will expand it if asked.
Lets divide spells into schools and schools into tiers.
Life tier: Holy, Shadow
Elemental: Water, Fire, Air, Earth
Bard: Bard
One character can learn spells only from one tier. Each school has its own rune. Spells are conjured by combining the runes and mana points. For example, combining each rune from elemental tier and adding one mp creates Elemental ward (X% resist from water, fire, air, earth for Y turns). Using two water and two air runes with two mp creates Blizzard; using two water runes along with one air rune and one mp unleashes the rampage of the frost hydra. Five air runes with 7 points of mana is electrical cyclone and so on, you get the idea.
Runes are learnt/bought/found as the campaign progresses; mana points = unit's level.
Affliction "abuses" can be achieved only through cross-tier combos, for example casting ice shard (elemental tier) on blinded units (from blinding flash - life tier) will cause double damage. In this way, player will be encouraged to use parties of heroes, each one specialized in one tier. I formerly included Bard school into Life tier, but now I think it is better off in its own tier: Bard spells will combine well with afflictions caused by other tiers.
As you can see, this design is kinda off yours, but I think it divides the spells and afflictions into intuitive and interesting system. I will expand it if asked.
Re: spells/abilities
One problem I see is that all your elemental spells are mayorly causing damage. Thats a little bit plain. You could also think about something different.
From a logical point of you: if you can control elements that way, you should also be able to change terrain. For example to melt ice, or dry out rivers (fire), to freeze water (cold) or to create barriers (ice, lava, mountains (^^) or create fog whatever). That would make you spells much more charming. Also think about special abilities of your elements - for example fire could do the highest damage doing Damage on Time with all its spells, while cold could freeze and electrizity could stun. --> I know has all been there already.
You should think about following spells, additional to your existing spells:
Destroy armor, or reduce resistance of a foe or destroy equipment of a hero. Let an enemy turn sides or run amok. You could also think about gaining the teleport ability or teleport an enemy away spell. Create barriers or change terrain - as mentioned. Create thunderstorms or noncombat enemies that might distract your enemies.
Hm, those spells, seem all to have a great power, its hard to balance them. Well my five cents, hope you find them useful.
From a logical point of you: if you can control elements that way, you should also be able to change terrain. For example to melt ice, or dry out rivers (fire), to freeze water (cold) or to create barriers (ice, lava, mountains (^^) or create fog whatever). That would make you spells much more charming. Also think about special abilities of your elements - for example fire could do the highest damage doing Damage on Time with all its spells, while cold could freeze and electrizity could stun. --> I know has all been there already.
You should think about following spells, additional to your existing spells:
Destroy armor, or reduce resistance of a foe or destroy equipment of a hero. Let an enemy turn sides or run amok. You could also think about gaining the teleport ability or teleport an enemy away spell. Create barriers or change terrain - as mentioned. Create thunderstorms or noncombat enemies that might distract your enemies.
Hm, those spells, seem all to have a great power, its hard to balance them. Well my five cents, hope you find them useful.
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical, UR Epic Era
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses, Dwarf Dwarfson Dwarvenminer
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical, UR Epic Era
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses, Dwarf Dwarfson Dwarvenminer
- battlestar
- Posts: 690
- Joined: January 1st, 2007, 7:12 am
Re: spells/abilities
@Neuromancer: I like the tier idea, but I don't want the player to gain access to all spells at once at any time... so the next play player can choose different combination of paths to experience. Hence I've been thinking about something similar: allow each character to choose 1 from 3 class of spells to learn. There will be:
- wizard who choose from fire/electricity/astral
- Undead girl who choose from unholy/cold/electricity
- a dwarf/elven hybrid who choose from earth/nature/holy
- an assassin who choose from bard/nature/air
- a knight who choose from battle/holy/earth
- a demon prince who choose from fire/unholy/battle
- maybe i'm forgetting my other intended characters...
I like the runes idea, need to figure out which one should cost what then. Runes would be something that're awarded for during side quests and campaign progress for players to collect. Max mana can be +1 with each AMLA but max can't go over 10.
Combination effects would be great to have, more the better, please expand. These combinations shouldn't limit to beneficial interactions, canceling effects are nice to have too. I had a few in mind when i came up with the spells.
@Heindal: Yeah, each class of spell has 13 items, in fire spell there's only 3 with special effects with the rest all about how and where the damage is done. Damage intensive spells are only fire/electricity/cold. Even in electricity and cold there're many summon spells, buffs and curses to go along with damage. Holy has 3 damage spells, bard has 2, air has 2, nature has 3, etc so they aren't that prevalent else where.
You're right about the terrains, there are already spells that change terrain (but not too much or it can mess with map design too much), like freezing shallow water (in ice spells), burning a forest down (a misc spell), creating barriers (astro spells), get enemies run amok (astro and bard spells), turn sides (unholy spells), teleport (astro spells)... Fog is hard to say, I'll have to make sure I can make that halo sprite; there're spells that directly create "fog"s in the air spells.
Here are more spells:
Nature
earth, the only school without a global spell
battle
The main thing in balancing is to eachother, and make sure nothing will kill the entire enemy army or render them entirely helpless. Overpowering in modest is OK and can be balanced by strengthening enemy in numbers and having enemy NPC commanders casting spells too. Don't want to make the player's army obsolete either.
One idea is to divide spells into grades: Weak, moderate, strong, super.
Where weak is something that can be casted every turn, moderate can be casted every 2-3 turns, strong can only be done a few times a game, and super is once or twice a game.
- wizard who choose from fire/electricity/astral
- Undead girl who choose from unholy/cold/electricity
- a dwarf/elven hybrid who choose from earth/nature/holy
- an assassin who choose from bard/nature/air
- a knight who choose from battle/holy/earth
- a demon prince who choose from fire/unholy/battle
- maybe i'm forgetting my other intended characters...
I like the runes idea, need to figure out which one should cost what then. Runes would be something that're awarded for during side quests and campaign progress for players to collect. Max mana can be +1 with each AMLA but max can't go over 10.
Combination effects would be great to have, more the better, please expand. These combinations shouldn't limit to beneficial interactions, canceling effects are nice to have too. I had a few in mind when i came up with the spells.
@Heindal: Yeah, each class of spell has 13 items, in fire spell there's only 3 with special effects with the rest all about how and where the damage is done. Damage intensive spells are only fire/electricity/cold. Even in electricity and cold there're many summon spells, buffs and curses to go along with damage. Holy has 3 damage spells, bard has 2, air has 2, nature has 3, etc so they aren't that prevalent else where.
You're right about the terrains, there are already spells that change terrain (but not too much or it can mess with map design too much), like freezing shallow water (in ice spells), burning a forest down (a misc spell), creating barriers (astro spells), get enemies run amok (astro and bard spells), turn sides (unholy spells), teleport (astro spells)... Fog is hard to say, I'll have to make sure I can make that halo sprite; there're spells that directly create "fog"s in the air spells.
Here are more spells:
Nature
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
One idea is to divide spells into grades: Weak, moderate, strong, super.
Where weak is something that can be casted every turn, moderate can be casted every 2-3 turns, strong can only be done a few times a game, and super is once or twice a game.
LUA: Llama Under Apprenticeship
Hell faction: completed
Hell faction: completed
- Neuromancer
- Posts: 204
- Joined: September 10th, 2010, 9:49 pm
Re: spells/abilities
Well, player will not have access to all spells, because the available runes are limited. Lets say character was able to get 7 runes so far (from quest, buying them and so on). First, we can control which runes to give him (for example there will be 4 fire runes from quests and 3 runes of any color from merchants). Second, even if we dont control which runes will he get, player will still have to choose between wide range of low-level combination spells and specialization. For example, when you want to summon Armaggedon, you need 7 five runes. That means you had to fully specialize into fire to be able to summon this spell and you wont be able to summon single ice shard for example. Or player can invest into 3 fire, 3 air and 1 earth rune, allowing him to create heat wave, but he cannot cast Armaggedon in that case.
Next thing, you intend to create 11 paths, thats 11*13=143 spells. Are you sure you are able to code these spells in some reasonable time, evenmore create graphical effects for them? I kindly suggest to cut it down as much as possible, for example merging earth with nature, and reducing the total amount of spells per path to 4 or 5 instead of 13. Spells in many paths are similar to each other: compare for example healing melody (bard) and spring of rejuvenation (holy). The same goes for afflictions, I think 5-7 instead of 19 is just fine. Think of this from player perspective: 143 spells and 19 afflictions, thats overwhelming. Player will be lost in confusion over effects and combinations... Next thing, if you want AI to use these spells, I think some scripting will be neccesary, thats additional work.
Anyways, about combination effects, to keep the system intuitive I would design something based on this: http://www.universal-tao.com/AstroInner ... sStars.gif , so for example Water spells cancel Fire spells, Water is cancelled by Earth, and Water spells cause double dmg against target afflicted by Metal effect. Of course, that chart will be modified according to the actual schools used in the campaign.
You want each character to choose from 3 spell paths. What about allowing player to use spells from all tree paths, via rune system? As explained before, this allows him to specialize or be universal -> this approach will entartain the player for several replays of the campaign too.
About grades: Weak spells cost 1-3 mana, you can easily cast them every turn. Moderate cost 3-5 mana, that means, you cannot use two moderate spells in conjunction unless you are powerful, you will have to wait for 2-3 turns for replenishment of your mana. Super spells are not only very mana-intensive, but they also deprive you of one mp permanently.
Next thing, you intend to create 11 paths, thats 11*13=143 spells. Are you sure you are able to code these spells in some reasonable time, evenmore create graphical effects for them? I kindly suggest to cut it down as much as possible, for example merging earth with nature, and reducing the total amount of spells per path to 4 or 5 instead of 13. Spells in many paths are similar to each other: compare for example healing melody (bard) and spring of rejuvenation (holy). The same goes for afflictions, I think 5-7 instead of 19 is just fine. Think of this from player perspective: 143 spells and 19 afflictions, thats overwhelming. Player will be lost in confusion over effects and combinations... Next thing, if you want AI to use these spells, I think some scripting will be neccesary, thats additional work.
Anyways, about combination effects, to keep the system intuitive I would design something based on this: http://www.universal-tao.com/AstroInner ... sStars.gif , so for example Water spells cancel Fire spells, Water is cancelled by Earth, and Water spells cause double dmg against target afflicted by Metal effect. Of course, that chart will be modified according to the actual schools used in the campaign.
You want each character to choose from 3 spell paths. What about allowing player to use spells from all tree paths, via rune system? As explained before, this allows him to specialize or be universal -> this approach will entartain the player for several replays of the campaign too.
About grades: Weak spells cost 1-3 mana, you can easily cast them every turn. Moderate cost 3-5 mana, that means, you cannot use two moderate spells in conjunction unless you are powerful, you will have to wait for 2-3 turns for replenishment of your mana. Super spells are not only very mana-intensive, but they also deprive you of one mp permanently.
Re: spells/abilities
Hm maybe you can solve the problem Neuromancer has explained with the number of runes.
If you learn a spell in any path you are more or less good in magic. You could allow him to get access to higher spells in the other magic pathes, if you want this.
Example: You choose to specialize in a specific field using seven runes in one field.
You are skilled in magic, so you might access a level 7 (or 6 or 5) spell from annother path.
The graphical problems are indeed problematic, even though the bard spells could be realised with the same graphics, showing some tunes (notes).
If you learn a spell in any path you are more or less good in magic. You could allow him to get access to higher spells in the other magic pathes, if you want this.
Example: You choose to specialize in a specific field using seven runes in one field.
You are skilled in magic, so you might access a level 7 (or 6 or 5) spell from annother path.
The graphical problems are indeed problematic, even though the bard spells could be realised with the same graphics, showing some tunes (notes).
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical, UR Epic Era
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses, Dwarf Dwarfson Dwarvenminer
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical, UR Epic Era
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses, Dwarf Dwarfson Dwarvenminer
- battlestar
- Posts: 690
- Joined: January 1st, 2007, 7:12 am
Re: spells/abilities
1. about the runes:
I like the idea but there're some problems with that:
[*]Coding the casting menu will be difficult, I gave it some thought and see no viable way to allow each hero have their own menu items and pick what spells are available from a wide range of choices because every possibility (3 paths x 11 spell each paths = number of possibilities to code for each hero) will have to be covered by the code. Hence I think it would be better to just allow each hero to have their own choice of 3, to limit down to 3 possibilities per hero that coding can handle.
[*]Diminishes difference between heroes, when there is enough runes, A can cast it, so can B.
[*]There will be regenerating random encounter battles that can give runes, so if player put enough time into it then there would be enough runes for all spells. Random encounters will have the option to be skipped.
[*]Not every spell to cost runes, only the moderate+ ones, the weak ones should be encouraged to be cast often. This way, moderate strength spells should be cheap in runes, strong spells make you think about the cost, while the super spells you have to plan for and save over 2-3 scenarios.
2. amount of the spells:
[*]I have located many duplications and removed 2 spells from each magic path.
[*]I planned this as a long term thing, it won't be finished in a month for sure, but that's what I actually prefer so I'm not worried about having too many spells to code. The straight forward ones shouldn't take more than an hour.
[*]No custom graphics are going to be made for most of them, only 1-2 (ie. stellar cascade, it's going to be raining pretty) really need custom graphics upon initial coding. Many negative and positive effects will be listed as an "ability", which gets removed as the spell wears off. Most of the rest that require graphics already has very suiting ones from the mainline database (ie. rust to dust spell using walking corpse death animation, bless spell using holy attack animation, etc etc).
3. other issues:
[*]AI's not going to use the spells, they'll be hard-coded as events by wml.
[*]Looking for ideas on cooler names.
4. current spells:
Bard
holy
nature
unholy
earth
fire
electrical
cold
battle
air
astro
left overs
I like the idea but there're some problems with that:
[*]Coding the casting menu will be difficult, I gave it some thought and see no viable way to allow each hero have their own menu items and pick what spells are available from a wide range of choices because every possibility (3 paths x 11 spell each paths = number of possibilities to code for each hero) will have to be covered by the code. Hence I think it would be better to just allow each hero to have their own choice of 3, to limit down to 3 possibilities per hero that coding can handle.
[*]Diminishes difference between heroes, when there is enough runes, A can cast it, so can B.
[*]There will be regenerating random encounter battles that can give runes, so if player put enough time into it then there would be enough runes for all spells. Random encounters will have the option to be skipped.
[*]Not every spell to cost runes, only the moderate+ ones, the weak ones should be encouraged to be cast often. This way, moderate strength spells should be cheap in runes, strong spells make you think about the cost, while the super spells you have to plan for and save over 2-3 scenarios.
2. amount of the spells:
[*]I have located many duplications and removed 2 spells from each magic path.
[*]I planned this as a long term thing, it won't be finished in a month for sure, but that's what I actually prefer so I'm not worried about having too many spells to code. The straight forward ones shouldn't take more than an hour.
[*]No custom graphics are going to be made for most of them, only 1-2 (ie. stellar cascade, it's going to be raining pretty) really need custom graphics upon initial coding. Many negative and positive effects will be listed as an "ability", which gets removed as the spell wears off. Most of the rest that require graphics already has very suiting ones from the mainline database (ie. rust to dust spell using walking corpse death animation, bless spell using holy attack animation, etc etc).
3. other issues:
[*]AI's not going to use the spells, they'll be hard-coded as events by wml.
[*]Looking for ideas on cooler names.
4. current spells:
Bard
Spoiler:
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LUA: Llama Under Apprenticeship
Hell faction: completed
Hell faction: completed
Re: spells/abilities
Please not: I will edit this message if I have a new idea for names:
battlestars spell name --> heindals spell name proposals
dance of the darts --> Dancing Blade, Blade Dance, Song of the blades, Fencers Dance ...
Climax of terror --> Angst (ae), melody of terror
summon vault --> Summon Riches, Entertain the Crowd
aria of virgo --> Sacrement of Wilderness (based on a nightwish song)
dreamland lullaby --> ballad of sleep, ballad of stun
wealth channeling --> gold feedback
battle
horn of berserkers --> taunt, aura of taunt
battle chant --> strict orders
spirit breaker --> ice slash
horn of bersrekers --> Call of Anger, Berserker Cry
the rest
twice born --> reincarnate, rebirth
battlestars spell name --> heindals spell name proposals
dance of the darts --> Dancing Blade, Blade Dance, Song of the blades, Fencers Dance ...
Climax of terror --> Angst (ae), melody of terror
summon vault --> Summon Riches, Entertain the Crowd
aria of virgo --> Sacrement of Wilderness (based on a nightwish song)
dreamland lullaby --> ballad of sleep, ballad of stun
wealth channeling --> gold feedback
battle
horn of berserkers --> taunt, aura of taunt
battle chant --> strict orders
spirit breaker --> ice slash
horn of bersrekers --> Call of Anger, Berserker Cry
the rest
twice born --> reincarnate, rebirth
Last edited by Heindal on October 13th, 2011, 9:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical, UR Epic Era
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses, Dwarf Dwarfson Dwarvenminer
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical, UR Epic Era
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses, Dwarf Dwarfson Dwarvenminer
- battlestar
- Posts: 690
- Joined: January 1st, 2007, 7:12 am
Re: spells/abilities
*
Looking for catch phrase ideas for when spell is being cast: ie. "Flame on!" for casting a fire spell.
Spell types: fire, earth, thunder, air, ice, holy, unholy, battle, bard, astro, nature
Races: Grycians, Skloans, Troglodytaes, Demons
For demo release:
11/11 fire spells coded.
6/11 cold spells coded.
0/11 thunder spells coded.
0/11 battle spells coded.
0/11 astro spells coded.
0/11 unholy spells coded.
0% level system progress
4/9 Valia skills coded.
0/10 Skarbod skills coded.
Release plans:
-Demo: Scn 1 plus first 6 of each fire, cold, thunder, battle, astro and unholy spells coded, complete level system, plus character skills of Valia, Skarbod
-Beta: Complete prologue scenarios, no further work on spells, no further skills.
-Version 1.0: Visual improvement of prologue scenarios and already coded spells and skills.
-Version 2.0: Prologue + part 1, Skills of Hogan and Eleanor, first 6 spells of earth, nature, holy, bard, air (all spells)
-Version 3.0: Prologue to part 2a (human vs orcs), improve graphics of new spells and skills
-Version 4.0: Prologue to part 2b (Oregon trail), next 3 (total first 9) of each spell class
-Version 5.0: Prologue to part 3a (elven vs humans), skills for Gaunam, Golden Fang, and evil enchantress
-Version 6.0: Prologue to part 3b (vs elven advisor), improve graphics of new spells and skills
-Version X: Part 4 (dwarves and troglodytes), Part 5 (descend), Part 6-X (future plots)... Skills for Crir, Nizbaf, two other future chars, complete final 2 spells for each class
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LUA: Llama Under Apprenticeship
Hell faction: completed
Hell faction: completed