Trapped 1.1

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Heindal
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Re: Trapped

Post by Heindal » September 8th, 2011, 3:47 pm

Well, I admit I was blind :oops: . Please dear hardcore designers, ignore this trivial post, but at least i figured something, that might be helpful for other new developers.

You can create a much better adventure and quest system with less variables and more planning, than it is used in trapped so far. I used variables to lets say for ... zombieskilled=yes or mission2andahalf=no/yes to check what has happened. Its much easier to realize quest and missionsstates and i was really :annoyed:, when thinking about that problem - but at least I puzzled it out myself.

If you want to create a rpg like mission in wesnoth you simply need one variable and define the state of this mission with a letter or a number.
E.g. Imagine you have a variable called mission1.

Now this mission could have different states:

1. mission1 hasnt been started
2. you talked to the questgiver, mission1 has been started, but you havent done anything so far (you lazy butt!)
3. mission1 has reached a middle state, or you done a sidequest
4. mission1 has been acomplished, but you havent talked to the questgiver nor received your reward
5. mission 1 has been finished, you have received your reward

The idea is to simply use: A (not started), B (started), C (middle), D (mission done), E (reward and misson over) to display different states of the mission.
So the questgiver/the events can react on whatever you have done so far. You could also define a row of missions, that the second mission starts at the E or the F point. That means you just need one variable (and a list of events and states ^^)!

That means for the zombiemission:

1. After talking to the guard/cook, you get the mission3=B
2. You go to the guard which is checking if the mission3=B the zombies spawn in that case and the guards disappears.
The mission3 becomes C, which hinders the zombies to spawn when you step on the spot again.
3. You kill the evil zombies and let them kill the traders before - who cares ... you can buy there anyway :lol2:.
The mission3 becomes D.
4. You go back and receive your cleaning lady money - mission3=E.

I will edit this later and post the source code ...
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses

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artisticdude
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Re: Trapped

Post by artisticdude » September 8th, 2011, 4:34 pm

What I do for my (top-secret!) RPG project is create a variable container called [quests], then I create a sub-container for each quest. Within each of those sub-containers I create a scalar variable called 'status', and I assign the values 'recieved' (for when the player has the quest but hasn't completed the objective(s) yet), 'fulfilled' (for when the player has completed the objective but hasn't reported back to the person who gave him/her the quest), and 'completed' (for when the player has accomplished the objective(s) and has reported back to the person who gave him/her the quest to get his/her reward). Of course, while that system works for the project I'm working on, it might not be feasible in all cases. Just thought I'd throw it out there. :)

BTW, I'm playing 'Trapped' now, so I'll have some feedback when I'm done. :)
"I'm never wrong. One time I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken."

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Heindal
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Re: Trapped

Post by Heindal » September 9th, 2011, 9:45 pm

Thanks very much for sharing this. The thing with the mission variable is realtively good, because its an easy, uncomplicated way.
So I will proably stick to this method. I should use more macroing and outsourcing in the same way as you do but as I am just getting started with wml I think that has time. Lets say: quick and dirty :lol2:.

By the way, I will publish hopefully the 0.6 version this weekend (which contains fractions, hiring of gladiators and additional bugfixes).
But I have to test it before :-/.
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses

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Heindal
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Re: Trapped

Post by Heindal » September 11th, 2011, 3:07 pm

Published verson 0.6 with fractions and more stuff ... see the entire list is in the middle of posts ... lateron I will edit the first post, but for now I did enough work ... its time to do something else.
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses

Tron91
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Re: Trapped

Post by Tron91 » September 11th, 2011, 4:46 pm

artisticdude wrote:What I do for my (top-secret!) RPG project is create a variable container called [quests], then I create a sub-container for each quest. Within each of those sub-containers I create a scalar variable called 'status', and I assign the values 'recieved' (for when the player has the quest but hasn't completed the objective(s) yet), 'fulfilled' (for when the player has completed the objective but hasn't reported back to the person who gave him/her the quest), and 'completed' (for when the player has accomplished the objective(s) and has reported back to the person who gave him/her the quest to get his/her reward). Of course, while that system works for the project I'm working on, it might not be feasible in all cases. Just thought I'd throw it out there. :)

BTW, I'm playing 'Trapped' now, so I'll have some feedback when I'm done. :)
Just sounds like the RPGXP and RPGVX games.

@Heindal: Try to create some multi-map missions as well; I mean nested missions. For example In scenario one there are two possible missions, one you can finish in the same map itself. But for the other you have to go to another scenario say scenario 10 and complete some tasks, then return back to get the mission in scenario 1 to complete it. Just like pure RPG games. Could be a headache to think about it!
Last edited by shadowm on September 11th, 2011, 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged two consecutive posts.

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Heindal
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Re: Trapped

Post by Heindal » September 11th, 2011, 9:39 pm

Yup, I will reconsider that. Maybe a cave or something under the arena. Maybe evil Norbert, the two-headed rat, after beeing wrongly accused for the theft of a carrot, plans to devilish revenge on our young hero. :P First I have to find out, how to continue to a new map, according the variables you've got. That will take some time. :whistle:
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses

Tron91
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Re: Trapped

Post by Tron91 » September 11th, 2011, 10:11 pm

making global variables is kinda hard in BfW; actually i say variable handling is a bit tough in here

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Neuromancer
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Re: Trapped

Post by Neuromancer » September 12th, 2011, 2:20 pm

pyrophorus wrote: it's not really interesting to spend five turns from the arena to the healing well...
Exactly. You can make the main character movement points unlimited when outside of the area to alleviate this issue.
pyrophorus wrote: if your story is weak, then you must focus on unusual details (visual and events) to catch the player interest or submit him an original challenge. IMHO, there are good ideas in your work (and in your projects), but the fights in arena could be improved. Here again, they're common place to an experienced player.
First, IMO if only one of the three components of the campaign is uninteresting (story, visuals/sounds, events), the whole campaign is uninteresting (=not worth playing). I dont think thats the case for this campaign, however many things can be improved, for example the already mentioned arena. What about placing it outdoor where player can utilize terrain dis/advantages? What about creating several arenas with different terrains? The whole scenario is visually not-very-pleasing, thinking of it.
pyrophorus wrote: Actually, I think it's very difficult to create scenarios which both tell an interesting story and provide unusual things which retain player attention. Maybe it's better to focus on one goal only at a time.
So not true in my opinion! I see the story and gameplay ideas as mutually enhancing elements of the game, starting with the inspiration.

Anyways, I played on normal difficulty, won about four arena matches and escaped via tunnel I made with the pick. I didnt discover any major bugs and forgot about the spelling errors. I couldnt hire any companions from that guy south of the area, though. I discovered only by reading your first post that several storylines and events are only available in different difficulty levels - you should note the player about this ingame. An update your first post :)

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pyrophorus
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Re: Trapped

Post by pyrophorus » September 12th, 2011, 3:30 pm

Tron91 wrote:making global variables is kinda hard in BfW; actually i say variable handling is a bit tough in here
Globals ? All variables are global to the campaign. Define them in a scenario, and you'll find them in the next one.
IMHO, the "real problem" is one can't define local variables ! :lol2:

Friendly,

LS
Campaign Return to Noelren *** HowTos: WML filtering, WML variables
Please help to to update the Guide to UMC Campaigns

Tron91
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Re: Trapped

Post by Tron91 » September 12th, 2011, 4:06 pm

thanks for enlightening me. dat makes me cry even more :(

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Heindal
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Re: Trapped

Post by Heindal » September 12th, 2011, 4:10 pm

The healing well argument is no longer accepted as I created two wells and made it possible to heal units buying healing flasks at the store and made a shortcut to the mainroom. The fog has also been replaced. If you really decide to fight against the guards, well than you should live with the problem, that you cant use the healing well next to the arena (1 turn after a fight to use) anymore. I was also thinking about healing units after rounds, but that would be to easy.

The terrain thing ... it is no problem to change the terrain in the arena and than change it back to normal ... In Version 0.6 is already a round where the arena is flooded. When fighting powerful mages or elements the arena could become a lava hell or the fighters could be surrounded by deadly fire.

The variable thing is not the problem. I will define the variables in the first or second mission, this should than cause no more problems.

But thanks for testing and the feedback. You should test the new version 0.6 - many things has changed there ...
Please also rethink that this is just a my first campaign and more or less a tryout for Five Fates.

@Tron: Dont cry. I just tried out the thing with the variables and it works fine and they are global. Its necessary for the achievements in my campaign and the finalpoints you receive after finishing the campaign. Well, at least I figured out the thing with the continue, thanks to the code of gloria victus ...I have seen that before in Bad Moon Rising and Brent. That means there will be more maps to come.
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses

Jaume
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Re: Trapped

Post by Jaume » September 14th, 2011, 1:22 pm

There seems to be something wrong with reputation and the black guards fraction (at least in 1.8.6). When I finish missions for them, my reputation among guards actually decreases (the only way to improve it seems to be paying 500 gp or completing the Jake mission.) By the way, shouldn't 'fraction' be 'faction'?

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Re: Trapped

Post by artisticdude » September 14th, 2011, 5:22 pm

Heindal wrote:The terrain thing ... it is no problem to change the terrain in the arena and than change it back to normal ... In Version 0.6 is already a round where the arena is flooded. When fighting powerful mages or elements the arena could become a lava hell or the fighters could be surrounded by deadly fire.
Perhaps have the arena be a separate scenario altogether, and randomly choose one out of several maps?
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Heindal
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Re: Trapped

Post by Heindal » September 14th, 2011, 10:11 pm

What a pity :oops:, you are right Jaume. Thank you very much!

Fixed 0.61 is out now for both versions.

artisticdude: I will think about it. First I got to test this continue thing using an easy example, such as my training room in five fates.
At the moment its very addicting to create those pathes for the characters.
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses

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Heindal
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Re: Trapped

Post by Heindal » October 16th, 2011, 10:36 pm

Version 0.651 is available.

- 7 additional upgrades (4 upgrades melee, 3 upgrades ranged)
- 3 shields (check bugs)
- sell system for the shields
- 7 more rounds
- first attack and last breath by arena enemies
- outsourced shop and arena events
- added 3 treasures and one treasure chest
- healing fluid (heals you when you are wounded)
- prints such as kills necessary to win a round, number of round ...
- fight sound (my voice)
- 3 monsters from five fates
- added giant rat (for versions of 1.8. that dont support it)


Known bugs:
- the shields seems just to rise your first resistance (got to recheck that)
- the arena event seems to be a little buggy when fighting the same enemies twice, as the macro adds your already killed monsters of that type
- cuttle fish (should be solved)


Still the game can be finished, the bugs are so far a little nasty/confusing, but will not break the game.
The future belongs to those, who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Developer of: Trapped, Five Fates, Strange Legacy, Epical
Dungeonmasters of Wesnoth, Wild Peasants vs Devouring Corpses

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