Return to Noelren 0.7.6

[GrigA41]

The reason is you use 1.11.0. RtN works with Wesnoth 1.10 and I never tested it under 1.11 which is a development version .
<...>
The best way is to install Wesnoth 1.10 (last stable version).

Oh! Now I see. Thank you for your help!

[taptap]

Scenario 6

Spoiler:

It is indeed convenient just to beat everything (beat the orcs first and beat the undead second without them exhausting each other) with elementals and L4 leadership without bothering to go through the marshes. Problem is that you can create 2 elementals per turn at no cost - so it isn't really possible to balance.

Scenario 7 (Alnoth Island)

Spoiler:

Extremely easy fight, no turn limits = potentially unlimited gold and experience. Tridents for everyone (incl. the driver of the cart, wulfie, the hero and several merfolk). Until now all overpowering was in temporary units, but from here on anything resembling balance will be impossible. But more importantly, handing them out like that cheapens the artifact very much - Skyone gives out too much artifacts during campaigns as well, but never in this mass fashion you do here (I had 6 and could have more.) and usually you have to fight for them. Especially if you make a story centered campaign, I wouldn't cheapen them this much. + I am unable to find the bandits after rescuing Patty. (It really isn't fun to have go to objectives to unknown places. It is unnecessary to make a challenge out of going somewhere, if it is a story enactment part nobody will feel a need for a challenge, please tell me where I have to go.)

[pyrophorus]

Scenario 7 (Alnoth Island)

Spoiler:

Extremely easy fight, no turn limits = potentially unlimited gold and experience. Tridents for everyone (incl. the driver of the cart, wulfie, the hero and several merfolk). Until now all overpowering was in temporary units, but from here on anything resembling balance will be impossible. But more importantly, handing them out like that cheapens the artifact very much - Skyone gives out too much artifacts during campaigns as well, but never in this mass fashion you do here (I had 6 and could have more.) and usually you have to fight for them. Especially if you make a story centered campaign, I wouldn't cheapen them this much.

OK, I think I perceive now much more clearly the kind of things you like and dislike in a campaign (and most probably, many players of your kind). It's really useful to me, and I'm really grateful you took the time to test something you're obviously not easy with.

Of course, your comments shall always be welcomed now or later, but I fear you will have to repeat the same all campaign long, so feel free to quit if you are tired of it.

+ I am unable to find the bandits after rescuing Patty. (It really isn't fun to have go to objectives to unknown places. It is unnecessary to make a challenge out of going somewhere, if it is a story enactment part nobody will feel a need for a challenge, please tell me where I have to go.)

The help menu should show:"The smugglers hide is in the mountains at 20,9. When it come close enough. Wulfie will catch the track, move and reveal the entrance.
Then, you have to light a campfire near the entrance to make the smugglers pop out (at 21,10 for instance). Kill them and enter the cave."

If not, it's a bug.

Friendly,

[taptap]

The help menu in scenario 7 didn't work as you describe. It showed the lake instruction until I finished the scenario.

I don't know, I believe I am pretty open-minded to different playing styles and I am indeed very much interested in the story of the different campaigns. Imo there is a systematic problem with the kind of gameplay you want to create (small group prodding along, solving puzzles/adventures and getting better in the process): it is the randomness. With a small group you either end with a deadly difficulty where a spell of bad luck or an odd trigger can destroy you or if you cushion the player against bad luck with something which is fundamentally easy. The randomness suits skirmish play with a medium amount of units best - with a very large army (+ healing) it almost stops to matter at least against the AI, with small groups it overwhelms you (an extreme case for illustration is the jousting campaign). For such a style to work well, it needs very well designed puzzles (the scenario where you crossed the mountain pass in the cold did this best so far) and a strong plot. But even then it might still be better to put it into an era (fire emblem-esque, no rng / changed mechanic) more suited to small group play imo. Or you could consciously go in the other direction towards (visual) novel play-along - where you are reenacting a plot (incl. rigged dice rolls etc.) - I believe this would do just fine for many occasions.

Friendly,

[gosh]

Hi there, thanks for the tip in "errands". I am now at "Perilous Crossing". I've shipped all of garad's men(including garad) to the other side of river & all the heroes to the marked spot in west. But victory is not triggered. Pls help

In the scenario after 5 years, during the conversation between Anuviel, garad & Tiomen, Tiomen's conversation was absent. Was it intentional? (I mean, was he inside his carriage?)

Fremeagel was indeed a bit challenging.In the end i had to petrify the dwarves using the mage..

Regards....

[pyrophorus]

The help menu in scenario 7 didn't work as you describe. It showed the lake instruction until I finished the scenario.

Thanks, I will check that. (I wonder if you're not using an outdated version. I have a feeling I have already fixed all this).

I don't know, I believe I am pretty open-minded to different playing styles and I am indeed very much interested in the story of the different campaigns. Imo there is a systematic problem with the kind of gameplay you want to create (small group prodding along, solving puzzles/adventures and getting better in the process): it is the randomness. With a small group you either end with a deadly difficulty where a spell of bad luck or an odd trigger can destroy you or if you cushion the player against bad luck with something which is fundamentally easy. The randomness suits skirmish play with a medium amount of units best - with a very large army (+ healing) it almost stops to matter at least against the AI, with small groups it overwhelms you (an extreme case for illustration is the jousting campaign).

Yes, I agree with your analysis on this army size problem influence on randomness. My "solution" is to give the player many means to counteract bad luck and unexpected events. Of course, this means none of the scenarios are really difficult, but I prefer let the player choose his challenge and his fighting techniques.

For instance, I think one can perfectly beat the 'To Elensefar' scenario without creating any elemental and using not the taming ability of the shaman, using either the road or the marshes. On the contrary, one can built a huge army with elementals and tamed sea-monsters to swarm the enemies. So everyone can have fun here in his own way. More of that, this reduces the 'tomato surprise' effect when programming unexpected events: the player should always be able to escape the trap without restarting the scenario.
Same with the special tridents in Alnoth Island. The objectives don't tell to get as many as you can. You can send the blacksmith and his wolf to the fight instead if you want. And if this works not, get back to the fire and boost some mermen. Otherwise, you would have to restart the scenario. Which is best ?
Of course, this leads to something you may think weird: the scenarios can't measure player skills, because in some way, one always can use a sledge hammer to crush a mosquito. But I think there are already many other campaigns and opportunities if the player wants seriously to evaluate her(his) player level.
When I wonder how I could design a 'hard' level in my campaign, the only way I could find for now, is to delete most special effects and abilities. Of course, the magic axe the hero gets is overpowered, but it would have nothing really magic if it had only the stats of an ordinary axe. At least to me, a large part of the fun of Wesnoth is creating or playing in a magic world (thanks to the computer). If we can only feature halfwit guys smashing each others with clubs and axes, it seems to me rather... primitive and far from poetic. (Mark this not apply to multiplayer world where strategy is the main concern).

For such a style to work well, it needs very well designed puzzles (the scenario where you crossed the mountain pass in the cold did this best so far) and a strong plot. But even then it might still be better to put it into an era (fire emblem-esque, no rng / changed mechanic) more suited to small group play imo. Or you could consciously go in the other direction towards (visual) novel play-along - where you are reenacting a plot (incl. rigged dice rolls etc.) - I believe this would do just fine for many occasions.

I'm reluctant to cheat the RNG (if I correctly understood your point), because it's a part of the fun (IMO). I don't want to write scenarios where the player is framed (trapped ?) in a situation where everything is planned, where (s)he is strongly enforced into a single path.

[pyrophorus]

Hi !

Hi there, thanks for the tip in "errands". I am now at "Perilous Crossing". I've shipped all of garad's men(including garad) to the other side of river & all the heroes to the marked spot in west. But victory is not triggered. Pls help

I think the easiest way is to switch to debug mode and then type ':next_level'. This shouldn't mess anything.

BTW I think I have to change my code here. You're not the first one to report such an event.

In the scenario after 5 years, during the conversation between Anuviel, garad & Tiomen, Tiomen's conversation was absent. Was it intentional? (I mean, was he inside his carriage?)

Probably not. I have seriously reviewed this scenario and I hope everything will be fine in next version (the problem is it can be started after part 1 or directly from the beginning).

Fremeagel was indeed a bit challenging.In the end i had to petrify the dwarves using the mage..

Really ? I thought it was very easy to block the ford with the powerful units you have here. I think it's even possible to kill all the dwarves (including their leaders) and quite all the janishaders too (but not the leader). Anyway, you won blocking the ford with petrified foes and it's OK.

Friendly,

[Armendariz]

I played your great campaign, but in the end I unfotunately encountered two bugs:

Spoiler:

I successfully eliminated all of the leaders in the last scenario ("Noelren Wrath" is simply too strong, I think )
But nothing happened... Only after reading your last advice, I used the cheat "next_level", and surprisingly saw the words "The end"... too bad it should happen like this.

also...

Spoiler:

In the cave with the lava lake, I could move my petrified units suddenly, in the 2nd round. I killed all the undead, and nothing happened. Then I got, that I maybe had to make Patti die. Like this, it worked and I could continue.

Thanks a lot for this campaign, I'm sure it will be implemented into the "normal campaigns" of TBfW one day.

[pyrophorus]

Hello Armendariz,

Thanks for your report and your appreciations ! I'm glad you enjoyed my work.

Spoiler:

I will check this problem with petrified units.
About the final ending, it is triggered at turn 5 by the return of Lestiviel, Patti and Dolmandir. All undeads are dismissed, but you have still to kill the mage Akh-Solen: at this point, it is possible and then you get the final.

I'm sure it will be implemented into the "normal campaigns" of TBfW one day.

Thank you, it's a great praise, but I don't think so. It's a lot of work to maintain mainline campaigns and I think the dev team is busy enough with existing ones. (And I have still a long road to go before this one is finished).
Friendly,

[pyrophorus]

Version 0.7 is out. Have fun !
Friendly,

[pyrophorus]

Version 0.7.1 is out.
Have fun,

[pyrophorus]

Hi all !
Version 0.7.2 is out.
There are some (hopefully) interesting additions, but the revision has mainly fixed some errors in scenarios chaining and defined main characters special advancement and abilities.
I think the campaign story and game mechanics are finished now (save bugs). Next tasks shall be text revision (help ! ) various graphics enhancements (help ! ), and an attempt to balance better the harder levels, but I'll wait a little for bugs reports.

Have fun !

[tr0ll]

i would love to help with text if i can survive past the opening levels (when i played it last year i never got past 2nd scenario (likely my fault) )
downloading now.

[pyrophorus]

i would love to help with text if i can survive past the opening levels (when i played it last year i never got past 2nd scenario (likely my fault) )
downloading now.

Well, it would be great and if you really don't find how to pass level 2, I can provide you with a special cheat mode (but I don't think you would really need it).
BTW, all campaign text is contained in two files only in the story folder (RTN_Dials-1 & 2). Take a look...

Friendly,

[Tinalein]

Scenario 7 (Alnoth Island)
Then, you have to light a campfire near the entrance to make the smugglers pop out (at 21,10 for instance). Kill them and enter the cave."
Friendly,

sorry, but how to light a campfire there ?????

greetings, tina