Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

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Telchin
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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Telchin » May 3rd, 2012, 7:41 pm

Random thought of the week: What about adding some unit with fire damage? You fight ghosts (namely Eternal Slave) at multiple points in the campaign and all your units do half damage against them. Fire damage would help against ghosts and wouldn't be as overpowered against skeletons as arcane. However, what kind of sea monster breathes fire? Maybe some creature adapted to eat Drakes? Would a fire-breathing octopus be too absurd even by standarts of this campaign? I'd like to get some opinions or ideas for better new unit before I start coding new scenarios to introduce it. (It would also need a custom art, as I don't want Nth recolor of Tentacle from the Deep or Cuttlefish, but I might try to do a custom sprite myself.)

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Evander
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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Evander » May 3rd, 2012, 7:43 pm

give fire to magic tentacles as an upgrade variant? :)

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Telchin
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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Telchin » May 3rd, 2012, 8:42 pm

Making it an alternative upgrade of Magic Tentacle has some problems: 1) I think the campaign has enough recolored tentacles already, any new might be confusing to tell apart (then again, the various upgrades of the young cuttlefish line are also recolors) 2)Magic Tentacles are explained as Master Sea Head researching the mermaids you defeated earlier. Mermaids use impact magic and healing, but not fire. Also in the Haunted Ford, there aren't so many of ghosts (and they're fighting your enemies too), so fire might not be necessary at this point (I was more thinking about the scenarios where you fight the Spectre) 3) If it was an alternative branch and was disabled in the Haunted Ford only to be enabled later, then it would punish the player for upgrading the tentacles early.
Note that I'm not really decided yet to add a unit with a fire attack. If someone has a better idea for a new unit I'm willing to use it (However,I'd like to decide myself which idea is "better". Custom sprites are welcome.). I have some ideas for new scenarios, where a new unit line would be addded, but I could probably acomodate them to fit whatever new unit I actually add (I haven't started coding yet).
Also note on Magic Tentacles - I'm still looking for better names for upgraded variants. Using names of jobs ("shamanistic tentacle") wouldn't make much sense as they are apendages, not whole people. Also they are both healers and ranged damage dealers, so a name like "healing tentacle" or "destructive tentacle" would emphasise only one part of their purpose.

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Evander
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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Evander » May 3rd, 2012, 10:19 pm

to be honest, in my game eternal slave was killed by someone else.

I actually never noticed the problem with lack of fire :)

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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by The_Other » May 4th, 2012, 8:35 am

I just finished playing this, and I have to say I enjoyed it more than any other campaign I can think of (well, maybe part 1 of IftU) - it's a nice, refreshing change from the usual, sober and serious stuff. It's strange, in a more serious campaign (without cuttlefish!), I think the plot would have seemed a bit worn-out and cliched, but you get away with it here because of the humour that goes with it. I particularly enjoyed the idiot 'lichen-lord'!

Sprites could obviously use some work, but again I found it to be less of an issue than it would in a traditional campaign - after all, cuttlefish are (usually) animals, so they don't have uniforms or equipment, and nobody expects them to. In the real world, colour is often the only obvious difference between different breeds of the same general family (compare red and grey squirrels, snakes or many fish). Obviously it would be nice to have custom sprites for each unit, but it's less of a priority than it would be with more conventional units. It also helps that the cuttlefish sprite is a large area of a single colour, and the tentacles are extremely bright - so even with the same base graphic being used, it's still really easy to tell them apart at a glance.

I have to agree with Evander, I didn't miss fire attacks at all - you have enough impact and arcane (I must have been thinking of something else...) that it really isn't a problem, and it's hard to justify a fire-based unit here without inventing something completely ridiculous. Also, I'm working on a faction of sea monsters at the moment (originally based on Lovecraft's fiction, but now including all manner of aquatic nastiness!) - I may 'borrow' your cuttlefish advancement tree, if that's alright with you. Obviously, help yourself to anything I make, if you need more bad guys (nothing posted yet as I want it all planned-out first - I'll link you to the thread when I make one!)

Thanks for the most fun campaign I've played in a long time!
Last edited by The_Other on May 4th, 2012, 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Telchin
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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Telchin » May 4th, 2012, 1:28 pm

I have to agree with Evander, I didn't miss fire attacks at all - you have enough impact and arcane that it really isn't a problem, and it's hard to justify a fire-based unit here without inventing something completely ridiculous.
Wait, where did you get arcane? Anyway, I'm aware that the campaign is playable as is, it was playable even before giant clams were added. It's just people keep demanding more and I'm brainstorming ideas. Yes, I understand that fire-breathing squid would be silly even by standarts of this campaign. If I get a better idea what to add I will post it. It should serve some purpose for the "faction". (e.g. Magic Tentacles provide ranged attack and healing)

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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Swiss_Army_Cheese » May 10th, 2012, 2:25 pm

Your campaign has ink breathing cuttlefish, I think it shouldn't be too hard to justify the fire-breathing kind.
How about the cuttlefish ignite the ink on impact? Too implausible?

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Telchin
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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Telchin » May 11th, 2012, 4:48 pm

Your campaign has ink breathing cuttlefish, I think it shouldn't be too hard to justify the fire-breathing kind.
How about the cuttlefish ignite the ink on impact? Too implausible?
I've read Wikipedia's article on sea monsters, but most of them are variations on giant squid, sea serpent or mermaids and all such units are already in the game, so I didn't get any better idea for a new unit. Therefore I may add some fire unit anyways. I'm just thinking of what the best idea would be. Fire-breathing squid feels silly, but I don't know any alternative. Fire Guardian are already in the game, but they would't make sense in the cave-flooding scenario. Maybe fire-breathing sea serpent? (the Leviathan in the bible breathes fire, doesn't it?) Or fire-breathing giant clam :roll: ? The problem is that a new unit would need some art, so it should be something doable by frankensteining mainline sprites, or someone should direct me to an era or campaign that has good sea monster graphics. Unless that happen, new scenarios may be not done :( (as I've said earlier, I have an outline for new scenarios, but I'd like to introduce a new unit and I need to know what will be introduced, so I can balance the campaign accordingly)

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Wesbane
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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Wesbane » May 13th, 2012, 8:04 pm

Telchin wrote:Fire-breathing squid feels silly, but I don't know any alternative. Fire Guardian are already in the game, but they would't make sense in the cave-flooding scenario. Maybe fire-breathing sea serpent? (the Leviathan in the bible breathes fire, doesn't it?) Or fire-breathing giant clam? The problem is that a new unit would need some art, so it should be something doable by frankensteining mainline sprites, or someone should direct me to an era or campaign that has good sea monster graphics.
Yes, it sounds like really useful ability in water environment. But globsters already have one: plague. As much as some special ability is desired feeding would be much better choice since attack without swarm limitation is decent enough at least to me. However this is a fantasy world so there is nothing that could not be justified.
Anyway regarding plague if you added ability like this it is good to make special event handling if needed in case of triggering an event by unit created by this talent. That is events playing dialogues.

As for art for new unit there is a kraken sprite in Dead Water but it is probably known fact. Its not well made but still an option.

In UMC there is really lack of sea monsters although there ate two eras aimed on water factions.
  • Era of Water have a collection of sprites from various sources and probably few franks featuring naga octopus that hardly fits wesnoth setting but who knows?
    Water Era have several interesting naga units if you would like to have larger enemy variety. Few shark sprites, some probably made from a photo so of quite poor quality. There are even included some units from Inky's Quest!
    In Ageless Era (compilation of best and most popular eras at least this is what author claims) there is a seal sprite.
    So no if it comes to sea life choice isn't to large. However if you are willing to extend your search criteria Era of Magic might be interesting. Units in this era have probably nicest sprites from any other custom one, but some animations could be missing. Graphics from it are used in both mentioned sea eras. Although there are no typical water monsters there are a lot of sprites of critters suitable for modifications. There is a wide representation of elementals including water one. And Tharos faction has a unit named hydra that you could turn into water being. Its snake like.
You can also search topics in art workshop for base frames for monsters. Zerovirus draw a lot of good beast sprites but nothing of it would inhabit sea depths.

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tr0ll
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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by tr0ll » May 28th, 2012, 12:24 am

if you want fire-like or arcane-like attacks, how about phosphorus loaded ink blobs that burn like greenish white fire on contact

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Telchin
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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Telchin » May 28th, 2012, 1:05 pm

Breaking news! Version 1.2 released and brings heavy changes!
  • 3 new scenarios (2 in the middle and 1 final battle battle)
  • New recruitable unit - Fire Squids. Yes, I didn't come with anything better, but given that this campaiog already had Magic Tentacles, I think they will blend nicely
  • High Risk, Low Tide now doesn't have any undead. Instead you will fight a blind man to steal his staff. It makes sense in the context.
  • The Divining pool is now somehow harder, because it now comes later in the campaign than in previous versions
  • Giant Clam's fire resistance increased to 10% (20% with steadfast) and its cold resistance decreased to 50%
  • The campaign now uses some story art from UMC Story Images by Crendrim. If there is a problem with it I may remove it.
If you liked the previous version, I urge you to try the new one. I'd like some feedback on the changes, as I feel some of the new scenarios may be too hard (don't forget that my campaigmn is supposed to be easy). There shouldn't be bugs, but if you find some tell me. As always, have fun.

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Enmerkar
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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Enmerkar » June 23rd, 2012, 2:48 pm

Hello,

I just finished a kind of Sea-campaign trilogy playing (Dead Waters, Inky, and Return of the monster)

I have to confess Inky's Quest, which I thought could be very reluctant, was definitely amongst my 5 favorite campaign ever. (I play Wesnoth for 3 years or maybe more)

So I registred here to thank you and also to offer you the translation of the campaign in French (which is my mother tong) Why? Because it would be a shame that a so pleasant campaign has to suffer a poor translation. (coz some campaigns do are, unfortunately!)

Here is now my humble feedback, feel free to read it and ask questions if you wish.
I played, as usual, at the normal level.

* A water struggle: just fine. Ok, MSH's design is indeed bad, but it doesn't really matter.
* A mussel in distress: totally fine. Ok, Shark's design sucks :lol2:
Spoiler:
* Inky goes Fishing: stressfull but great!!!
* The haunted ford: perfect.
Spoiler:
* Clash of drakes: Another great moment.
Spoiler:
* Blinded by the mists: Ok, you have to know I'm not very good at this game, so I had to reload many times, until I decided to attack mainly the right guy. So I spent all my gold to have an arm... a fleet strong enough to size Sprazs' donjeon, but not regret, it was very fun!
* The divining pool: Maybe my favorite one! This one is easy. Suggestion:
Spoiler:
* Old Lich and sea : Ok, this one was a nightmare. Not so difficult,
Spoiler:
A funny idea: what about a Reef unit that could counter the rising-ground effect of the mushroom?
* Drowned Dwarves'day: ok too.
*High risk, low tide: bery good, no comment. btw, I like your titles!
* Burial at sea: this one was pleasant, as usual in a massive assault scenario.
Spoiler:
other Suggestions :
- could it possible do give MSH an extra level, which would be very of course very hard to reach? You know, smth like "Old One of the Sea", "Legend of the Oceans", "Water Patriarch" or anything like that? It could get more slow but with extra-life and some funny power.
Spoiler:
Someone talked previously about the biblic Leviathan. What about an extra scenario with it as the ennemy? The player has to beat it to gain an advandage, to force it to contain Mermen, get another artefact or just because it is the one that provides corpes to undead?
Other units Ideas:
-meeting Nessie. (A funny scenario with scottish like fighters, haunted donjeons and the unfamous nessie :)
- a "cavalry unit" : based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Horse (NB: The French page contains different information!)
- a flying unit: Sirens, harpyes, or simply albatross/seagul? Cuttlefish could basically dislike them, as they could eat from dead bodies, but in certain circumstances, it becomes an advantage....

Units I didn't like: Fire Squids. I don't have any ideas for the moment, but if you wish so, I could think about and suggest some alternatives?
Globsters: this one was not so usefull actually and kind of weird, but afterall, I think it's not a bad idea. Maybe it just need an extra attack, an abyssal sonar or something? Maybe a drain power? It's weak, but i used it to turn bats into indead to have a flying stike! (quite usefull, also^^)

Ok, I think you have enough to read for this time :whistle:

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Telchin
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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Telchin » June 23rd, 2012, 5:49 pm

I have to confess Inky's Quest, which I thought could be very reluctant, was definitely amongst my 5 favorite campaign ever. (I play Wesnoth for 3 years or maybe more)
So I registred here to thank you and also to offer you the translation of the campaign in French (which is my mother tong) Why? Because it would be a shame that a so pleasant campaign has to suffer a poor translation. (coz some campaigns do are, unfortunately!)
Wow, I like people posting feedback, but somebody joining the forums, just to praise my work is more than I hoped for :shock:
On the subject of translations - I keep adding new stuff every now and then (the version you played has whole 3 new scenarios), so I didn't mark the campaign as ready for translations. However, if you want to provide translation I'll be happy to accept your offer. :D
I don't speak French and have no experience with translating campaigns, so I might have problems checking your work, but I'd like to provide you with some notes to clear any problems you might encounter during the translation. I'll probably post it in this thread when I'll have time to write it.
Ok, MSH's design is indeed bad, but it doesn't really matter.
Yeah, I'm bad at drawing and lack the patience to improve. :hmm:
Inky goes Fishing: stressfull but great!!!
Originally this was the second scenario, but then I added Mussel in Distress to make it easier. I don't want to add more scenarios to the begining, because I don't want to postpone Ravyan's appearance too much.
I was so pleased to discover Magic Tentacles! Ok, Actually they are weird and some shell (bernicles or anything on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kappa_%28folklore%29?) would may be more natural but it's awsome to make them appear after a while.
I agree that Magic Tentacles are weird, but due to my above mentioned lack of graphic skills recoloring the Tentacle from Deep seemed like the best I could come up with. I don't think that Kappas would fit in, as I belive they live more in ponds than in sea and being Japanese monsters they might clash with otherwise European setting of Wesnoth (then again, Nagas are from India and nobody complains about them)
Actually it could be more balanced as I finished by ruling all the map. Maybe Undead could be more numerous?
The battle is four armies free-for-all, so the difficulty might depend on which enemy gets luckier in killing those others. That said, it's possible that it needs more balancing, as it's one of the newer scenarios and I'm a rather bad player.
Blinded by the mists: Ok, you have to know I'm not very good at this game, so I had to reload many times, until I decided to attack mainly the right guy. So I spent all my gold to have an arm... a fleet strong enough to size Sprazs' donjeon, but not regret, it was very fun!
My strategy was to recruit all fire squids in the first turn, send them with help of 1-2 loyal units around the island to assasinate the mudcrawler and before the got there I recalled rest of my army and decimatec the (non-invulnerable) lizards. Howver, I agree that this cenario is harder than it should as I overvalued strenght of fire damage against mudcrawlers and lizards. Maybe I should change the map, so the mudcrawler starts closer to the player, thus enabling you to eliminate the enemies in the correct order.
To make it harder, maybe remove the Undead and claiming they are coming with a huge army: vdery stressfull, so the player would have to beat the guardians quickly. And when Undead finally arrive, Guardians could get some renforcments until MHS reaches the goal.
The main reason the Undead are there is because Clash of Drakes and Blinded by the Mists are new scenarios. The Diving Pool was created to introduce Ravyan and his enslaved spectre. This is also why it might be easy a addition of two scenarios gives more space for leveling up your units. As I was adding whole three new scenarios, I didn't want to change those already existing much, but some changes in the future are not impossible. I don't have the time for them right now.
At this point, the guardians understand their mistake and cover Inky's retreat. And of course, be able to recruit one of the guardians race could be very pleasant. (How to justify this? I don't know, maybe a Seaking/god could appear, be very sorry and would say that he would need 3 races to protect the pool and allow one to go with Inky? Because maybe the moste exciting part of a campaign is to recruit new kind of fighter and see them evolve, get some extra beasts would be awsome. Lampreys & Eels are my favorite. What about a L3 "Silver Eel" which could teleports itself like a silver mage?
I have considered that between the Divining Pool and Old Lich and Sea there could be a scenario where Sosarix tries to reach the Divining Pool (as you have destroyed its security system) and you must stop him. I didn't add it because I was already in the process of adding three new scenarios. I'm not sure I like the idea of the guardian fish joining you (I don't like the idea of some fish king/god), but if I add the "Pool-defending scenario" in the future, this might be good idea for it.
Old Lich and sea : Ok, this one was a nightmare. Not so difficult,but as I didn't have too much time to play, I wanted to go fast. And the almost non-stop flow of undeads pissed me off. Maybe with more different units could be different, but I have to confess I cheated on this one!
Now imagine that this used to be the fourth scenario (!) (Mussel in Distress and The Divining Pool were added later). The endless stream of Undead is meant to be the main feature of the scenario, as you can outswim Ravyan's ground forces. If by cheating you mean abuse of save/load, I can tell you that I use that in all campaigns (including this one). :oops:
Burial at sea: this one was pleasant, as usual in a massive assault scenario. despite that, I was desappointed as it was too easy.

I guess I'm bad at making challenging final scenarios. Originally, Ravyan was fought in High Risk, Low Tide and was very weak. This was anticlimatic, so I moved Ravyan's defeat to separate scenario and added new scenarios to introduce a new villain (Sosarix) that would replace Ravyan in High Risk, Low Tide. When I actually got to making the final battle, I was probably too exhausted and impatient to make it hard.
could it possible do give MSH an extra level, which would be very of course very hard to reach? You know, smth like "Old One of the Sea", "Legend of the Oceans", "Water Patriarch" or anything like that? It could get more slow but with extra-life and some funny power.
Master Sea Head was meant to be aquatic version of Delfador from HttT - starts powerful, gives lectures to the main character, but cannot level up. He is also needed for the various "terramorphing" scenarios, as the rest of your units can move on the dry land (albeit slowly). As for getting more power, he gets some ssmagic in the final scenario, but it might not be enough. However, I don't want him to be extra powerful, as you have him from the beginning of the campaign and I don't want him to overshadow Inky too much (that's why Inky is the only one able to reach level 4.)
Units I didn't like: Fire Squids. I don't have any ideas for the moment, but if you wish so, I could think about and suggest some alternatives?
Yeah, this is a silly unit, but I choose it for two reasons: 1) easy to make with my lack of artistic talent 2) the fire damage enables the use of Mudcrawlers in Blinded by the Mists (as they are highly resistant to impact attacks of tentacles, but also highly vulnerable to fire).
Globsters: this one was not so usefull actually and kind of weird, but afterall, I think it's not a bad idea.
This unit exists mostly because I wanted to add more variety to the cuttlefish line. I agree that I mostly go for the Kraken.
Ok, I think you have enough to read for this time
I gladly read positive feedback. :D I was more disturbed that nobody replied since version 1.2 was released.

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Enmerkar
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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Enmerkar » June 25th, 2012, 12:21 am

Mmmh... Your answers make sense, so I won't say anything on the topics I agree.

* Designs vs new units (or "I do what I can") Have you tried the Naga campaign "Return of the Monster"? I played it just after finishing IQ and, whether you find yourself interested in some designs/creatures, maybe the author would let you use them?

* Regarding the translation: I never translated a campaign, but I'm a freelance writer & translator so don't worry about the quality. So I guess I should wait for a more "ultimate" version? No problem, you let me know!

*Blinded by the Mists: I don't think the map needs to be made easier, this scenario is challenging, but beatable. Actually, I was kind of proud of myself when I managed to solve my problem which was 1) I have to reach the Mudcrawler with my most powerful units 2) to go there, the narrowed passage needs to be clear and troopers are coming from east and west. So I blocked men from east and I sized the donjeon of the nephew! No more recruiting then!
I guess I'm bad at making challenging final scenarios. Originally, Ravyan was fought in High Risk, Low Tide and was very weak. This was anticlimatic, so I moved Ravyan's defeat to separate scenario and added new scenarios to introduce a new villain (Sosarix) that would replace Ravyan in High Risk, Low Tide. When I actually got to making the final battle, I was probably too exhausted and impatient to make it hard.
Ok, so basically we just wait for the great idea!! :mrgreen:

Thanks again for this funny campaign!

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Telchin
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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Telchin » June 25th, 2012, 12:52 pm

Designs vs new units (or "I do what I can") Have you tried the Naga campaign "Return of the Monster"? I played it just after finishing IQ and, whether you find yourself interested in some designs/creatures, maybe the author would let you use them?
I haven't played that campaign. To be honest I didn't have much time for Wesnoth lately because of school. Therefore don't expect some changes to the campaign in close future.
I never translated a campaign, but I'm a freelance writer & translator so don't worry about the quality. So I guess I should wait for a more "ultimate" version? No problem, you let me know!
I wasn't concerned about your translation's quality, but more about that I don't know how exactly make the translation work. There are instructions on the wiki, but I'm afraid that they're more focused on translating mainline Wesnoth than UMC campaigns. It may also require some special software (or maybe I'm just reading it wrong).
As for the campagn not being "ultimate version". Well, I intended it to have six scenarios (+epilogue) as it was my first (and so far only) atempt at making a campaign. This was the first version released (under BfW 1.8.4) and it already had a "finished" storyline. Later two more scenarios were added based on player's feedback. The latest version added three (!) more (and heavy rewrite of High Risk, Low Tide as it was moved from last to penultimate position). Therefore I can't say that I won't add something in the future (I've even mentioned some ideas in my previous post), so it's possible that if you translate it now, some things may be moved, changed or removed later. On the other hand, I don't know if and when such changes happen (I've mentioned my current lack of time) and the campaign's storyline has a begining and an end (and something between). So if you want to translate it (despite the abovementioned risks), go for it! I'll be happy that somebody wants to colaborate with this project :D
Here are the translation notes I've promised in my last post:
Spoiler:
Last edited by Telchin on June 29th, 2012, 12:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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