Legend of the Invincibles

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Which of these crafting recipes you are using or planning to use? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

The End of All that Is
4
9%
Gloombringer
1
2%
Soul Eclipse
4
9%
Guerilla
5
11%
Scaryface
6
13%
Thundering Revenge
2
4%
Marie Byrd
4
9%
Marrowrend
11
23%
Deathblade Inheritance
0
No votes
Soul Render
10
21%
 
Total votes: 47

dabber
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber » February 22nd, 2017, 3:06 pm

nuorc wrote:
Dugi wrote:That is what you get for using debug mode. One of the two will be broken permanently, causing smaller problems until you get rid of him.
@Dugi: didn't you advice to always chose the second? And I don't think there was a way to get rid of those once you have that issue.
I have used debug mode, but not in that scenario and not related to the knight. I thought my only saved used of debug mode was adding movement and hitpoints in an early scenario, but I could be wrong. Most of my uses of debug mode are to try something absurd with units/equipment/amlas, see what happens, and then reload the saved gave from beforehand.
Spoiler:

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nuorc
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by nuorc » February 22nd, 2017, 6:29 pm

dabber wrote:debug
Certain uses are safe, others aren't (Dugi knows more). When I once debugged an orc to my side (because he was standing on loot and not moving anymore) sometime later those dreaded double leveling options appeared...

Spoiler:
I have a cunning plan.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi » February 24th, 2017, 6:05 am

dabber wrote:I thought my only saved used of debug mode was adding movement and hitpoints in an early scenario, but I could be wrong.
Btw, there is a possibility to fix the double advancement issue for some cases in 1.13. It will not always help avoid it, but sometimes it will. You will not be able to rely on it, but it could help in cases of bad luck. Do you guys want it?

More importantly, I have fixed the change advancement problems in the github version and I also managed to get the advancing working on 1.13, it is not very good yet, but it will not loop and do its work when the unit advances.

dabber
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber » February 24th, 2017, 9:11 pm

Minor bug report: Elvish Overlord is missing {AMLA_DEFAULT_BONUSES} from the weak_ambush and ambush AMLAs

Giant_Hogweed
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Joined: January 23rd, 2017, 9:58 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Giant_Hogweed » February 25th, 2017, 7:35 am

Giant_Hogweed wrote:Hello Mr. Dugi
I'm not sure if it is a bug: I was stuck in Inferno after killing Lilith (and let her go) in foul pits and entered in Pandemonium where I tried to kill the Uria's Avatar but it was invulnerable to any attack, even if I poison or incinerate it.
In the forum I asked some question about it and one guest told me about a "friend" that should have helped me, so the only one I thought was the "bad Lethalia", but I had alreday killed her at the beginning (it was the first thing I did after cleaning the trasporting facility). Nevertheless while I was waiting here (I posted the same questions here to you) for a reply I went back to the place where I killed the bad Lethalia, and she became my ally. With her I went back to Pandemonium and after 3-4 attack to the Uria's avatar appeared Lilith that allowed me to kill the avatar and, only after that, the name of the entrance up in the middle of Pandemonium appeared so I was able to enter it.
It raises a question:
1) Was it necessary for me to get the bad Lethalia as a friend to make Lilith appear in Pandemonium, or was it just a problem of how many times I attacked the avatar?

I have killed Uria, but I did it without destroing the machinary that shiftes the rooms in Uria's Den, so I think this is something strange that at least didn't allow me to visit the remaining rooms and stay with a target to do without the possibility to do it. Another strange target is to kill Yarae when it cannot happen by playing.

Kind regards.
I have just begun chapter X, I just want give you my opinion about how it begins. I do not think that is right to put all the object (weapons, armour, potion etc.) collected by Vritra in her fights in arena together with the Lethalia and Efraim group and then leave her without anything at the beginning of this chapter, and it is strange that instead all the gems are kept from Inferno's scenario. I think that the units that fought with Vritra in Arena should remain with her too as they should be loyal to her. It is very hard to fight against demons with so weak units, I have to say that by now (I've reached the Orchish) it is boring.

Kind regards

MarcinBX
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by MarcinBX » February 25th, 2017, 9:32 pm

MarcinBX wrote:
playing normally You can earn 8000-9000 in this mission
How?
Scenario has 150 turns. Each turns gives 86 gold. 100% of gold goes to next scenario.
If You will be able to beat this scenario in less than 60 turns You will have 8000+ gold for next scenario.

Oppopnents:
Orc general
Undead general
random 0 and 1 lvl undead (without general)
troll general

where is the problem? You can move one of liches forward and leave the army and second lich to beat orc general and then undead general
i played this scenario and ended it in less than 25 turns but i ignored trolls and some random undeads

Giant_Hogweed
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Giant_Hogweed » February 26th, 2017, 7:43 am

Giant_Hogweed wrote:Hello Mr. Dugi
I'm not sure if it is a bug: I was stuck in Inferno after killing Lilith (and let her go) in foul pits and entered in Pandemonium where I tried to kill the Uria's Avatar but it was invulnerable to any attack, even if I poison or incinerate it.
In the forum I asked some question about it and one guest told me about a "friend" that should have helped me, so the only one I thought was the "bad Lethalia", but I had alreday killed her at the beginning (it was the first thing I did after cleaning the trasporting facility). Nevertheless while I was waiting here (I posted the same questions here to you) for a reply I went back to the place where I killed the bad Lethalia, and she became my ally. With her I went back to Pandemonium and after 3-4 attack to the Uria's avatar appeared Lilith that allowed me to kill the avatar and, only after that, the name of the entrance up in the middle of Pandemonium appeared so I was able to enter it.
It raises a question:
1) Was it necessary for me to get the bad Lethalia as a friend to make Lilith appear in Pandemonium, or was it just a problem of how many times I attacked the avatar?

I have killed Uria, but I did it without destroing the machinary that shiftes the rooms in Uria's Den, so I think this is something strange that at least didn't allow me to visit the remaining rooms and stay with a target to do without the possibility to do it. Another strange target is to kill Yarae when it cannot happen by playing.

Kind regards.
I have just begun chapter X, I want to give you my opinion about it: I think that it is not right that all the object (Armour, Weapons, potions,) collected by Vritra while she fought in Arena was put together to the one belonging to Efraim and Lethalia and then leave her without anything at the beginning of this chapter; Moreover for me it is not right that the units that were fighting with her in arena do not remain with her. On the other hand it is strange that instead all the gems collected by Efraim and Lethalia remains in this chapter. This situation cause a lot of difficulty to let the units fight and advance, so the only units that are really able to fight are Vritra and his brother, all the other units aven if I craft all the possible armours and weapons for them are always too weak to fight against demons. This is really boring.

Kind regards

Delicius169
Posts: 178
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Delicius169 » February 26th, 2017, 9:30 am

I find the begining of the 10th chapter most awesome part of game, that feeling that you are guerilla fighter and you are trying to survive, but no matter how much you try, you know, that all of you wont survive... I dont like, that it later changes, and you are only (mostly) fighting with humans-who are too weak, but still gives you enough exp to be stronger and stronger, so it becomes easier and easier...
And it is nice change to have some orcish units, though I was never able to enjoy all of them...

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi » February 26th, 2017, 7:10 pm

dabber wrote:Minor bug report: Elvish Overlord is missing {AMLA_DEFAULT_BONUSES} from the weak_ambush and ambush AMLAs
Fixed.
MarcinBX wrote:Scenario has 150 turns. Each turns gives 86 gold. 100% of gold goes to next scenario.
Yes, but the village gold of side 1 is set to 0. Do you have a very, very obsolete version or something?

#Chapter X
I wanted a change in playstyle into a guerilla fight. It appears that I failed to please everyone.

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nuorc
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by nuorc » February 26th, 2017, 7:40 pm

Dugi wrote:Yes, but the village gold of side 1 is set to 0. Do you have a very, very obsolete version or something?
Are we talking about the trader in Bitter Swamp? I had nearly 11k when I reached him, and I did it with the version on the add-on server.
I have a cunning plan.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi » February 27th, 2017, 6:42 am

nuorc wrote:
Dugi wrote:Yes, but the village gold of side 1 is set to 0. Do you have a very, very obsolete version or something?
Are we talking about the trader in Bitter Swamp? I had nearly 11k when I reached him, and I did it with the version on the add-on server.
:augh: Where the hell do you get the gold from with 0 village gold?

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ZIM
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by ZIM » February 27th, 2017, 9:34 am

Dugi wrote::augh: Where the hell do you get the gold from with 0 village gold?
I even manage to get ~18000 gold at the later scenarios of chapter 3. And I'm playing it with the github version of the Loti about a month ago.
Only hope and faith can save us.

MarcinBX
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by MarcinBX » February 27th, 2017, 12:26 pm

Dugi wrote:
dabber wrote:Minor bug report: Elvish Overlord is missing {AMLA_DEFAULT_BONUSES} from the weak_ambush and ambush AMLAs
Fixed.
MarcinBX wrote:Scenario has 150 turns. Each turns gives 86 gold. 100% of gold goes to next scenario.
Yes, but the village gold of side 1 is set to 0. Do you have a very, very obsolete version or something?
I don't think so because i downloaded Lotl one month ago
Village gold in chapter 3? set to 0
I gained 82(sorry mistake - not 86) gold per turn because i won fast. Villages doesn't change anything.

there is a picture
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32384&start=6105
first post on this page
early finish bonus: 82 per turn
turns finished early 135 (of course that was second try where is was rushing as much as i can)
:augh: Where the hell do you get the gold from with 0 village gold?
early finish bonus:
Chapter 3:
we have loyal units and liches
we gain gold if we end scenario fast plus from enemies right?
it is very easy to earn a lot of gold and have more than 10 000 gold during this chapter. Some people had 18 000. I "only" 15 000. Other 11 000.

Thanks to that i bought many gems and game was very, very easy. My Seer was able to solo kill Akula and her army.
Akula had 20-10 arcane and 50-8 fire attacks
Seer had 70% arcane resist, 90% fire resist, absorb 3 and despair 40%
fire attack was reduced by 90% and later by 40%... which means that Akula was hitting my Seer for 3 and Seer had absorb 3
arcane - 6 damage reduced by 40% and then absorb 3

dabber
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber » February 27th, 2017, 8:31 pm

I've read almost a year's worth of forum posts in the last couple weeks, focusing on discussion of AoE (Area of Affect) attacks, especially on Efraim and Lethalia. When I played extensively in 2015, I essentially never used the big AoE attacks with the main characters. When I came back to it this month, I use them even less. The basic reason is a statement I made back then - the general power of a unit is determined by how they do when defending on the enemy turn, not what happens when the unit attacks. A powerful Efraim or Lethalia can kill a dozen enemies on a single enemy turn, and the AoEs are not designed for that scale of destruction (nor should they be). Since using the AoE hurts damage output when defending, using the AoE is bad. The recently posted idea about reducing damage for each kill when defending, but returning to normal damage at the beginning of your turn, is a big game changer and probably for the better.

The other problem with the current AoE lethargy is the penalty is absolute not relative. It drops everything by 10 or 12 points without regard to the attack power. A weaker character launches a fireball and then cannot hurt anything next turn. A more powerful character can launch a few fireballs in a row, each one really big. That means when Efraim/Lethalia first get access to an AoE, it is especially poor - their damage when defending drops to near 0. Later on, their damage when defending can still be relevant so they can, maybe, afford the AoE. My Duelist Wizard, who has put most of his AMLAs into his explosive fireball, can launch it almost every turn - dropping the 100+ point attack by 12 doesn't much matter, and he doesn't do squat in melee anyway so the defensive penalty doesn't matter. The lethargy penalty would work better if it was a percentage of damage, not an absolute. The percentage could vary with the type of AoE attack, but it would be a percentage. And special AoE affects like slow would provide an adder.

As another alternative, I think a recharge time on each AoE would work. Yes, the powerful character could acquire multiple AoEs and use them constantly, but at least it forces variety. Or make penalty apply to all AoEs equally, when any AoE is launched. If use AoE, all AoEs get the penalty, but not other attacks.

And now I'm going to try coding one of my ideas ... but this will take a while.

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matsjoyce
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by matsjoyce » February 27th, 2017, 8:33 pm

@dabber If you get the timeout version working, do share your results / code, as I am curious how it would compare to vanilla LotI.

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