Legend of the Invincibles

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Elvish Nightprowler
14
15%
Elvish Overlord
5
5%
Elvish Seer
14
15%
Elvish Warlord
4
4%
Exterminator
10
11%
Forester
2
2%
Goblin Ravager
0
No votes
Goblin Warbanner
0
No votes
Grim Knight
0
No votes
Faerie Incarnation
13
14%
Infernal Knight
5
5%
Lich King
5
5%
Lunatic Knight
8
9%
Monstrosity
0
No votes
Orcish Nightblade
0
No votes
Orcish Strafer
3
3%
Pilum Master
4
4%
Orcish Warmonger
3
3%
Phantom
1
1%
Predator
1
1%
 
Total votes: 92

Whiskeyjack
Posts: 464
Joined: February 7th, 2015, 1:27 am
Location: Germany

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Whiskeyjack »

This add-on will surely suit your needs.
Yes I have seen your addon a few days after you released it and I plan to try it out, but again, not before I finish my current run on your campaign. I´m not insane enough to risk having to replay 9 chapters because I made one stupid mistake :P
If a unit can handle Abaddon with four supports, a stack of elite items and tons of experience, I think that the unit is not overpowered. Aevyn had an Elvish Marshal who could kill bosses if he had good supports. But the idea to support the default 30 repetitions berserk with a 2 repetitions' berserk might be reasonable...
Today I took down a level 16 boss with him solo just to try. Had to redo it because it left him to low and I had no units in reach to protect him, but its not like he needs that support to kill the bosses, only to survive the aftermath. And usually I get the mentioned buffs with one or 2 units (one Faerie Incarnation with one or two buffitems/Legacy of Kings). That one unit + the Berserker should be able to deal with Abbadon, the Berserker alone would not be able to. But yes, its true that he is currently at 20 AMLAs (including Book of Lycantrophy) so its more the work invested than the Berserker unit in itself. Kinda didn´t think about that.
There is a way to get any normal unit (not demons, black souls, corrupted beings and other stuff that would be totally overpowered with AMLA and items).
I´m aware of that fact but some of those units don´t stay with you long enough (because - for example - you lose your army ;) ) or you went the wrong path (e.g. I always took Dragon Rider instead of Duke, now I have no option to try building a Duke without cheating or starting anew (which I will probably do if not in the near future). Now I have all those level 10 enemies and its easy to really test out some of those AMLAs and combinations at a scale thats just not possible in earlier scenarios (a lot of my units are over 2000 EP per levelup already and almost all over 1000. You would never get this far with a lot of units in part 1). Still, I think one should beat the campaign first before trying out stuff like that in a fun run, so I will refrain from it ;)
Under blood-red skies, an old man sits
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.

Xargon
Posts: 86
Joined: January 19th, 2008, 2:27 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Xargon »

I think I stumbled upon a bug:
When you use the option "alter advancement", and your unit was very close to leveling up, and you change to something which requires less XP for the next level, unexpected things happen: I had 973/975 XP, and after changing it was 60/913. So apparently it calculated that I am 60 XP over the threshold for the next level, but this levelup does not happen, so the XP is simply lost.

HolyDiver
Posts: 5
Joined: December 17th, 2013, 7:36 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by HolyDiver »

Hi, Dugi. I have recently started new walkthrough of the second part of this campaign. And I think that it's too easy, even on hard and I am now only in the beginning without any OP item combinations. Could you, probably, create another difficulty level?

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Dugi
Posts: 4955
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Whiskeyjack wrote:I´m not insane enough to risk having to replay 9 chapters because I made one stupid mistake
I see.
Whiskeyjack wrote:Today I took down a level 16 boss with him solo just to try.
Generic fortress bosses are not too hard (well, twice as hard as regular enemies), they are partially relying on their underlings.
Whiskeyjack wrote:now I have no option to try building a Duke without cheating or starting anew
Duke is so hard to obtain because he is very strong. He's pretty much the hardest to obtain from all generic units. My claim was not so correct for Duke, right.
Xargon wrote:When you use the option "alter advancement", and your unit was very close to leveling up, and you change to something which requires less XP for the next level, unexpected things happen: I had 973/975 XP, and after changing it was 60/913. So apparently it calculated that I am 60 XP over the threshold for the next level, but this levelup does not happen, so the XP is simply lost.
Interesting. It might not happen very often, I did not think about that possibility. I will fix it.
HolyDiver wrote:Hi, Dugi. I have recently started new walkthrough of the second part of this campaign. And I think that it's too easy, even on hard and I am now only in the beginning without any OP item combinations. Could you, probably, create another difficulty level?
Install the Unforgiving Hardcode Mod and see if you'll still want it.

Xargon
Posts: 86
Joined: January 19th, 2008, 2:27 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Xargon »

@Dugi: Yes, I realize it is a rather exotic situation. I used this opportunity (being very close to levelup and having an enemy nearby) to explore some advancement options for Efraim.

One thing I was wondering about: Is there any way to extend the amount of text that Wesnoth can display, or have a scrollable display? This applies to various situations, like the attacks of a unit in the panel to the right or similarly the display at levelup. Another point I noticed this is the day/night cycle in Arctic Wasteland. Since it has 60 phases, only about a third are displayed (also depending on resolution or size of the window). I wanted to see if a snow storm is somewhere in there...
I fear that the answer is no and this is hardcoded, but maybe you know more.

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Dugi
Posts: 4955
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

I think that it can be done, but it would be a very difficult task. The advancement window can be added a scrollbar, but it would require reimplementing it with all its functions in lua (therefore it needs really a lot of work, since the window is not coded in lua). Maybe I will give this a try, it should solve a lot of other problems as well. The way stuff is displayed can be changed, but I am not sure how many changes can an add-on do there and I have no idea how to do that. The custom status icons are done by changing the right panel's behaviour, but it was just a block I copied from an example and I don't know how to do other things with it.

dabber
Posts: 383
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Grammer in 8_07 Unimportant Revolution
story= _ "Their journey was this times even sadder than before. The enemies had their daughter in possession, and could threaten them about killing her whenever it will suit them. Having to decide between the life of their daughter and the destruction of the world was something that had to be avoided all costs."
replace with
story= _ "Their journey was this time even sadder than before. Their enemies had possession of their daughter, and could use threats to kill her against them. Having to decide between the life of their daughter and the destruction of the world was something that had to be avoided all costs."

message= _ "I need to know the paths south from here. If you promise to explain me how to get to the town of Krapul, I will help you."
replace with
message= _ "I need to know the paths south from here. If you promise to explain to me how to get to the town of Krapul, I will help you."

message= _ "Krapul is the capital of Karhaba. I should know how to get from these mountains, but I do not know the way through the desert that is between these mountains and Karhaba. Deal?"
replace with
message= _ "Krapul is the capital of Karhaba. I should know how to get out of these mountains, but I do not know the way through the desert that is between these mountains and Karhaba. Deal?"

message= _ "Thank you a lot. You have helped us greatly. I will will explain you how to navigate through the desert and tell some of my men to join you."
replace with
message= _ "Thank you a lot. You have helped us greatly. I will explain how to reach the desert and tell some of my men to join you."
Last edited by dabber on March 27th, 2015, 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Raijer
Posts: 425
Joined: April 25th, 2013, 9:00 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Raijer »

Dabber wrote:Their enemies had possession of their daughter, and could use threads to kill her against them.
I'm not sure about this. Wouldn't it be better with "Their enemies held their daughter, and could threaten to kill her any time" ? Cause i'm quite sure threads isn't exactly relevant, and IMHO, "use threats to kill her" sounds bad.
Dabber wrote:I will explain how to reach the desert and tell some of my men to join you.
I think you misinterpreted it, he should teach them how to go through the desert, not how to get to it. Maybe it's better to say: "I will explain how to travel through the desert, and ask some of my men to join you"
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

William Ernest Henley

Xargon
Posts: 86
Joined: January 19th, 2008, 2:27 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Xargon »

By the way, is there a chart with the possible advancements for all units somewhere? I enojy trying things and finding out myself, but I don't think I will see everything, and it would be nice to get a big overview of things.

Raijer
Posts: 425
Joined: April 25th, 2013, 9:00 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Raijer »

I found one at page 26 of this topic, which is quite complete, but i'm quite sure there's a better one around pages 100-150. Maybe putting it in the huge spoiler in the first post ?
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

William Ernest Henley

dabber
Posts: 383
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

@Raijer
You are certainly right about "threads". Didn't proofread my own writing enough. I agree that even my version of the sentence has room for improvement. The idea is that the demons could use threats against Vritra to control Efraim and Lethalia.

Earlier the guy says he does not know the way through the desert, so he shouldn't be providing that knowledge at the end.

Raijer
Posts: 425
Joined: April 25th, 2013, 9:00 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Raijer »

Oh yeah, sorry about the desert part, i haven't played this one since a lot of time, so i just tried to re-phrase the original. Though, in the original, he actually says "how to navigate through the desert", and i think that it implies he knows the way, or has some kind of advices about it.


@Xargon: About the advance tree, i found a more complete on at page 46 of the topic, the swashbuckler and master hunter do exist, but they have different names. And no, there's no record of every possible AMLA after those advancements (sorry, i misunderstood your question in my first post, though you were just asking for all possible units).
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

William Ernest Henley

Xargon
Posts: 86
Joined: January 19th, 2008, 2:27 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Xargon »

Thanks anyway! I was actually interested in both, but the units I think I more or less know by now - so yes, AMLAs would interest me even more. I also understand that it's a huge effort to compile, I just asked since it might be buried somewhere in 275 pages...

Xargon
Posts: 86
Joined: January 19th, 2008, 2:27 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Xargon »

The redeem ability gets a bit weaker vs certain level enemies when increasing it from 8 to 9:
vs lvl 6: 100% -> 90%
vs lvl 7: 75% -> 60%
vs lvl 8: 50% -> 40%

Is this intentional?

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Dugi
Posts: 4955
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

#grammar
Fixed that one.

#advancement tree chart
I can't find it on my disk, it seems that I lost it with many other files during my accidental disk wipeout in november 2013. The only copies in existence are on these forums.
For AMLA, the amount of work needed to costruct it is just too huge. Also, the slow discovery of the possibilities is something that we're not gonna spoil.

#redeem getting a bit weaker
There are some special cases when the change of formula makes it slightly worse against some enemy levels, yes.

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