Legend of the Invincibles

[GodlyDragon]

Hi Dugi, I've found 2 bugs in your last version:

1) In the first and second scenario of chapter 6 the enemies who were suposed not to move (until a unit get in range) goes staight to Lethalia and Efraim and overpower them quickly. I've been able to proceed only by importing some units from my previous games (brilliant work with this new add-on by the way).

2) Crafted metal claws don't have any attack bonus when equiped.

PS: Nice item descriptions, continue your great work

[Dugi]

1a) I have done something that looks like a fix, but I am not sure if I did it completely right. Try the attached file, when testing it, it worked, but I might have done it badly, I am not very skilled with AI.
1b) But please use that add-on with care, it can reduce difficulty greatly.
2) Found that one too, I will upload a quick fix if when I become sure that the AI is fixed right.

EDIT: I have released version 3.1.10, it contains fixes for those serious bugs, please download it instead.

[Aevyn]

A couple of bugs that I encountered:

1). I'm getting a notification about despair following a deprecated WML format.

2) I'm unable to progress into Chapter 9; the first scenario causes wesnoth to crash entirely after the dialogue has finished. I'm attaching a save file.

[Dugi]

1) Are you sure you aren't using a save file from 1.10? I can't find any leftovers in my code.
2) When I was testing it, it crashed once and behaved strangely a few times. Looks like undefined behaviour, a hard-to-debug error in C++ code (according to the devs, WML or lua code should not crash the program - that way, a skilled hacker might make an add-on containing a virus). I will have to investigate more. For now, try to use the save file I attached.

[Aevyn]

Well I believe the campaign was started during 1.10. I've updated wesnoth and LotI several times since. If that's the issue then I apologize.

As for the second issue, I'm glad you could reproduce it. Thanks for the new save.

EDIT: Found another bug.

"Teleport enemy units to leader" is still available after the scenario "Artic Wasteland" in Efraim's menu. The option is still there in the new save you provided as well.

[Dugi]

I was not completely capable of replicating that error, it crashed only once and never again. However, I found that, for unknown reasons, the code of the Mysterious Invasion was modified (on my PC and thus everywhere). I don't know when and I don't know why (well, logically it should be me, but I can't remember doing anything). I tried to remove the changes, maybe it will work for you, try the file I attached. Can you please remember what was the last dialogue line before crash about?

It seems to me like if you didn't end the Arctic Wastelands properly (via debug mode or so), causing the option to persist.

[dabber]

A few more Inferno comments...
Stronghold of Tears and Twilit Fortress have magically sealed areas. I believe both are opened after you break all 4 seals. But there is really no clue of the link in the text, either in those locations or when breaking the 4th seal.
I get the optional objective to kill Abaddon in Verminous Sewers, but Verminous Sewers does not appear on the map. This might be intentional - it is the sewers. Other things showed up on the map when I got an objective to go there, even if I didn't otherwise know the location.


I may sound like a broken record here, but I've been looking at Demon Lords (the level 20 ones) and I think their damage output on hard is not high enough compared to lower level demons, at least on HARD.
Demon Lord melee damage is fixed at max 200. Despots start at 152, and one trait makes them 232 or another 176 (or both!), and they can get Berserk (3) on top of that. With the right single trait, even a level 12 is doing nearly as much melee as the level 20.
Demon Lord ranged damage is 138, or he can get a storm attack at 160. A level 12 can hit 150 ranged damage just on the fireball. Most importantly, the big nasty traits produce far more ranged damage - a level 16 with chilling has a 124-3 slow attack!
I think there is a simple bug in the coding of Demon Lords. The hitpoint quantity that goes DOWN as difficulty goes up.

PS I probably won't be posting for a while after today. My second child is due to be born Wednesday.

[Dugi]

There are actually three fortresses and they all open if you break the four seals. I have now added a hint that you should open the seals first (but it does not display if you don't know about the seals yet). You get noticed that the path to Pandemonium is open when you kill the fourth seal guardian.
When you learn the name of the location where something is, it should be shown on the map with a blue tint (except Abaddon's sewers, which aren't on the map).

Yeah, you're right they don't get random increases in damage from traits and you'll most likely meet stronger normal demons. So I increased their damage (by about a third) and significantly reduced the experience they need to level up (which makes them stronger in mid- combat and heals them a bit).

Have a good time with your family and its new member.

[Aevyn]

It seems to me like if you didn't end the Arctic Wastelands properly (via debug mode or so), causing the option to persist.

You're right; False alarm. Accidently deleted my most current save and so skipped to get back to it.

Can you please remember what was the last dialogue line before crash about?

I know two things for sure:
1) Wesnoth crashes if I click my mouse really fast to quicken dialogue in the beginning of "Mysterious Invasion"
2) Wesnoth does not crash if I take my time and read all the dialogue

I have a theory. There is a pause in the dialogue were Efraim goes to fight the Demon White Mage. The sequence ends with "Darn, she's too powerful" or something similar. If you click with your mouse to skip that pause when they're fighting, Wesnoth crashes.

Yeah, you're right they don't get random increases in damage from traits and you'll most likely meet stronger normal demons. So I increased their damage (by about a third) and significantly reduced the experience they need to level up (which makes them stronger in mid- combat and heals them a bit).

Love it! Can't wait to get to Inferno with my new team. Chapter 8 and 9 are definitely favorites. It's intense moments like this that keeps me addicted:

[dabber]

Aevyn, it looks like you have 3 Elvish leader types (forget the exact unit name). What is their virtue? Except for Gryphon Riders and a Faerie Incarnation, I have quit using other elves.
What scenario is that?

[Aevyn]

That's "The Desert" in Chapter 8. One of those long adventurous scenarios. However the real scenario I look forward to is "Jungle Hell".

In actuality, only one of those elvish marshals you see is valuable and equipped. I'd been trying for a long time to get Legacy of the Kings on one so I'd train a bunch and scrap those with useless legacies. In that scenario, finally found one that's (quick, highlander). Elvish Marshals have leadership and the ability that gives quick reactions to neighboring units. Nothing exciting on it's own, but the one in the picture has:

1) Aura of universal annihilation
2) Leadership
3) Damage aura
4) Warlord's Rule
5) Legacy of the Kings
6) Hit and Run
7) Darkness Aura
8 ) Quick Reactions

It's basically a highly mobile massive damage multiplier (and +30% resistance) unit that can make low level units damage high levels; A true army General and leader. I like putting Elvish NIghtprowlers next to it (Darkness Aura) so they're invisible. Even so, it's still not the best and key unit in that group.

[Dugi]

@Aevyn
Thanks for your input. Now, I am quite certain that it crashes if you click during an animation if the animation is skipped because the game screen is not shown yet. You need to click very fast to have it crashed, though.

[dabber]

Thanks for the answer. What do you see as the best units, generally against demons? Particularly alone? My current choice is Celestial Messenger, and I similarly leveled several until getting a pair with Legacy of Kings. My general "I win" button is a Prophet with Legacy of Kings, Tome of Bards and Royal Diadem. Effectively anything adjacent to him laughs at all enemies.

Why do you like Jungle Hell? For me, it was just too big, and fighting enemies in impassable terrain was annoying.

I've been meaning to make some sort of post about whether the elven units are properly balanced. I only use Gryphon and a Faerie, but I haven't spent the time on numbers to see if my dropping the others is justified. Aevyn, what is your gut reaction?

[Aevyn]

Thanks for the answer. What do you see as the best units, generally against demons? Particularly alone? My current choice is Celestial Messenger, and I similarly leveled several until getting a pair with Legacy of Kings. My general "I win" button is a Prophet with Legacy of Kings, Tome of Bards and Royal Diadem. Effectively anything adjacent to him laughs at all enemies.

Your question is extremely difficult to answer. Correct strategy with items/legacies can turn almost any unit into something amazing; but I'd be willing to bet most players don't invest time into designing units to perfection.

Without items/legacies I'd say the best units against demons are Duelist Wizards. Celestial Messengers are great, yea, but Duelist Wizards have amazing resistances, can absorb/reflect damage, can slow, can cause massive area damage. Also, their melee damage isn't horrible and lets not forget about teleportation.

Why do you like Jungle Hell? For me, it was just too big, and fighting enemies in impassable terrain was annoying.

I love any scenario that presents a challenge throwing a massive amount of units at my characters. Those scenarios truly put skill and item strategy to the test.

I've been meaning to make some sort of post about whether the elven units are properly balanced. I only use Gryphon and a Faerie, but I haven't spent the time on numbers to see if my dropping the others is justified. Aevyn, what is your gut reaction?

Elvish units are my favorite. As a describe in my last post, an Elvish Warlord can be devestating. Elvish Seer is an amazing raw damage unit (perhaps it needs 1 more AMLA ability, but no more). When you learn faerie sword ability, it even uses it when defending (Most units don't defend with learned skills). Incarnation is great, no explanation needed. Elvish Juggernaut is the only unit that's dull to me, but even it makes a good soldier unit.

My general "I win" button is a Prophet with Legacy of Kings, Tome of Bards and Royal Diadem. Effectively anything adjacent to him laughs at all enemies.

Spoiler:

I love this campaign because the more items and abilities Dugi adds, the more I'm free to use my imagination and creativity. I find myself compiling a list of devastating setups and combinations that are devastating. Since we're discussing Elves, here's a project similar to yours that's in my current team:

Goddess Setup
Faerie Incarnation (quick highlander)
1) Medium Healing
2) Resistance Decrease
2) Shield (20)
3) Royalty
4) Tome of the Bards
5) Tome of the Bards Part 2
6) Art of War (Damage Aura)
7) Skirmisher (!!!)
8 ) Illuminating
9) Convert undead to humans (!!!)
10) Despair

This unit IS a god; it's low on defense and attack, but it's self sustaining and can create and raise it's own army when fighting undead. Skirmisher allows me to reduce the resistances and damage of demons, while ally damage and resistance modifiers allow level 2-3 units to damage demons. All I need now is the book "how to be an overlord" and this unit will be complete.

***It's important to state that the above is not a balance issue in general or with Incarnations; I have many other setups for other units. This is just a result of item hunting / hoarding, legacy breeding, and careful AMLA selections. The average player does not invest so much time into this.

[dabber]

Without items/legacies I'd say the best units against demons are Duelist Wizards. Celestial Messengers are great, yea, but Duelist Wizards have amazing resistances, can absorb/reflect damage, can slow, can cause massive area damage. Also, their melee damage isn't horrible and lets not forget about teleportation.

I certainly agree that Duelists are great (I like them better than the level 5 Mage), but I've always considered their melee damage to be horrible. The Demons attack them in melee and even if the Duelist wizard takes only minor damage, he doesn't hurt the Demon. But I have never spent an AMLA on their melee, nor equiped them to improve melee damage, so you've pointed out a large gap in my thinking.

Why do you like Jungle Hell?
I love any scenario that presents a challenge throwing a massive amount of units at my characters. Those scenarios truly put skill and item strategy to the test.

I felt the terrain in Jungle Hell usually slowed them down enough to prevent my being truly swarmed. When I get concerned (rare since chapter 7), I form some sort of battle line. When they engage my battle line and stack up behind the front line, then I actually worry. That sort of density is really really rare though.


Do you find Damage Aura to be useful? I look at it as too few hitpoints to matter (about 10 against units that have 100+).