Legend of the Invincibles

[dabber]

LIch king- is quite weak unit, his only advantage is that if you use Tome of liches, he can become unit with the biggest amount of weapons (mage-white mage- paladin- lich- lich king= mace, spear, sword, essence of magic, axe, staff)

I never noticed that one! Lich King adds axe to the weapon list. But it means going to a Lich King instead of an Ancient Lich, and I think the Ancient Lich is clearly better. But I valued the magic spells over the melee, because I wanted massive Explosions.

As far as I know, there are only two units that can naturally use 3 weapons - Prophet and Exterminator. I made my Ancient Lich from an Exterminator, after crafting triple The Essence of Magic. With whatever staff and Equality crafted for his touch attack, plus Koschei's Journal, he casts big explosions.

PS Technically that would be White Mage, Mage of Light, Prophet, Lich, Lich King.

[Whiskeyjack]

As far as I know, there are only two units that can naturally use 3 weapons - Prophet and Exterminator.

Prophet!?
Never noticed that one. Mace, staff and ... ?
And what weapons can Lich use? Staff and now Touch. What are the other one/two?

Can one see somewhere what weapons a unit can carry except from their attacks?

PS: Can one somehow hack the unit to change stuff like Legacy? I found pretty much everything else, but I couldnt find the Legacy.

[Dugi]

Elvish lord- has at least zeal aura, still I would suggest skill increasing defense ability (Elvian units are in my opinion more based on defenses, then resistances). It could increase defense by 15% (after spending 2AMLAS)/ or giving struggle to unit next to.

LIch king- is quite weak unit, his only advantage is that if you use Tome of liches, he can become unit with the biggest amount of weapons (mage-white mage- paladin- lich- lich king= mace, spear, sword, essence of magic, axe, staff), but still weaker than Lich. I would suggest giving him skill like Murderlust aura, aura of leeches (every unit get leech to their attack), or aura of hunger.
If you dont make one in a way I created via Tome of Lich, he s not really useful unit, and as a leader? worthless.

Does everyone concur?

I have added your description to the wiki page. Registering an account there is trivial, you could have done it too.

[Ashes]

(...) the best is equipment that provides suck.

Suck is very useful indeed (and does not appear in the detailed description of the unit).
But suck works only for blade, pierce or impact. Leech is to be preferred if you deal fire, cold, arcane or lightning damage.

Here is a patch for global_events.cfg that shows suck (and also devastating_blow and lethargy).

[dabber]

As far as I know, there are only two units that can naturally use 3 weapons - Prophet and Exterminator.

Prophet!?
Never noticed that one. Mace, staff and ... ?

Prophet is the level 4 Paladin. Cavalry / healer. Weapons are sword, spear and staff.
Lich can use staff and crafted touch. Lich King can use axe (and I think staff). So you load up three weapons on a guy, read Tome of Liches, AMLA into Necromancy, suicide him into a Lich (he still has the previous weapons equipped, but if you ever drop them you cannot put them back) and party on with bunches of extra weapons. It is totally an exploit, but I find it fun.


I agree that Lich King is pretty useless as a leader. I vaguely recall he was pretty good in melee though, and still okay at range. But I haven't used one in many months, and I only ever used one in early stages of part 1 (perhaps even chapter 1). I have not touched any undead in part 2, because vulnerability to arcane and fire looks like suicide against demons.

[Ashes]

As far as I know, there are only two units that can naturally use 3 weapons - Prophet and Exterminator.

Exterminator uses dagger, scythe, knife.
Prophet only uses sword and lance, but can carry a staff (quoting items.cfg: "exception to the rule"). He can carry a mace only if he advanced from a Mage of Light and kept it.
Lich King can use axe only and can carry a staff (exception to the rule), and if advanced from Death Knight can carry a crossbow, and if advanced from a Lich can carry otherwordly essence (touch).
Ancient Lich only uses otherwordly essence but can carry a staff (exception to the rule).
Celestial Messenger only uses a mace but can carry a staff (exception to the rule).
Dragon Rider only uses bite and lance, but can carry a sword (from Grand Knight) or sword plus crossbow (from General).
Shadow Prince only uses a staff, but can carry a mace and a sling (from Fugitive)
Elvish Overlord only uses a sword but can carry a staff (exception to the rule).
etc.

I am not aware of a place where all of this has been listed.

[Delicius169]

thank you Dugi.
to dabber: You can create LIch king, give him Tome of lich dome, kill him and make him Ancient lich...

[Dugi]

Can one somehow hack the unit to change stuff like Legacy?

Yes.

Here is a patch for global_events.cfg that shows suck (and also devastating_blow and lethargy).

Cool. Wow, I didn't know you had this skill.

I am not aware of a place where all of this has been listed.

Look into items.cfg to see the rules. Units typically can use the weapons they have plus staff if they have spells plus essence if they have a touch attack.

to dabber: You can create LIch king, give him Tome of lich dome, kill him and make him Ancient lich...

I know this was not meant for me, so forgive me, but I think that the ability from Tome of Liches does not work on undead.

[SethMk3]

I have encountered a propblem with LotI. I can not start the campaign anymore. The error message:
Game_error: unknown unit type: Shadowalker
I don´t know why this happened. I played the Lilith scenario today, quit and now all the LotI saves are not loadable (Other campaign save cause no problems). Maybe I should reinstall the campaign.

Some more problems I found:
The scenario “Darkness closing in” (mermen and shadows) is autowin after the first round. Sorry, I can not give more detail, but I can´t start it anymore. If I remember correct, some of the recruted shadows appeared in other castles as the recruiting eaders were in (or there were invisible shadows in the castle field with the towers).

The scenario Lilith: She kills me without problems. Should that prophet Stormrider help me? He moves around, tries to heal, but is never fighting, as all of the “green” troops. No Knight, no Thief attacks her, they just stand around. When I defeated the last evil elvish defender, except Lilith, all other armies stopped moving.

Wesnoth 1.12.4 (German language) and LotI3.1.14 (difficulty easy)

Thanks for that great campaign! It is my favourite campaign, because of that rpg parts (items, upgrades) and the epic and dark storyline (like UbS and IftU).

[Dugi]

Game_error: unknown unit type: Shadowalker

I have no idea what could have produced this. Did it show some other error message before that one (a longer one)? This definitely is an error in the add-on, not saves, but how could it suddenly start occurring, that is beyond my knowledge. Did you experiment with something? Did a disk failure change a symbol? Reinstalling could help in any case.

The scenario “Darkness closing in” (mermen and shadows) is autowin after the first round.

This one is known, the next update will have it fixed.

The scenario Lilith: She kills me without problems.

He would most likely attack her wrongly, take a lot of damage and die without helping much, so he focuses on other enemies instead. Never heard of anybody having too large issues to kill that one, on easy, you should have some strong weapons available.

[Ashes]

Here is a patch for global_events.cfg that shows suck (and also devastating_blow and lethargy).

Cool. Wow, I didn't know you had this skill.

Patching a software may be easier than writing it.
That's my first attempt at writing lua

[SethMk3]

Thanks for the quick reply. I reinstalled LotI and now it is loading the saves again.

Does the difficulity setting in this campaign change the turn available for a scenario, like in some official campaigns? Or just the gold and the units the enemy can recruit?

When I kill the last enemy leader on the field the scenario ends. Sometimes he drops an item. Is this collected at the end or lost because I did not pick it up?

Lilith: I have absolutely no weapons to harm her, so I will look at the crafting menu more closely to find usefull tools. (my liches really get hurt by arcane damage und I have no way to pierce the resistance of the deamon). Ok, I´m on it.

[Dugi]

That's my first attempt at writing lua

Congrats.

@SethMk3
Difficulty affects the enemy gold and usually also the turn count as usual, but higher difficulty also makes items add less damage, makes units need more experience for after AMLA and in some cases, it also makes enemies stronger.

Items dropped by leaders in the last turn are automatically picked. Also any items in scenario Jungle Hell.

To beat Lilith, try to use something with slow or despair (lower her damage), conviction (lower her resistances), lightning damage (ignores resistances), mayhem (decreases her damage for some time), trickery (decreases her defence for some time) or devastating blow (chance to remove a percentage of her hitpoints).
She will be much nastier when you meet her later, but you will be stronger too.

[Ashes]

The damage decrease is related to the reduction in suck I have done.

Oh, I did not realize that was still ongoing. That changes the whole campaign a lot.

Would it be possible to give (read) access to the git/mercurial/other that you are using, to share the current development version of LotI?
We could report bugs wrt this version instead of the last release.
For example, Elvish_Nightprowler.cfg has a description "shooting better when in shooting frenzy" which should be "shooting faster when in shooting frenzy". Or Seer.cg has an advancement with max_times=10 instead of max_times=1. I don't know if it is already corrected.

(...) higher difficulty also makes items add less damage (...)

I'm not sure it is a good idea. For example the Juggernaut with Doombringer, Stormforce and the Gloomy set which I described on the wiki is good only because I played this unit on the easy level. And it is difficult to understand why (for example) Silver Axe always adds 35% damage, and Axe of Perun add 55/35/15% damage depending on the difficulty.

Another remark: it seems that if by using mind raid a unit gains a level, then no AMLA is proposed. I will try to make sure that it is the root cause of the bug, and find a patch.

[Dugi]

Did you know that you can edit your posts? If the post has not been replied to, you have a button on its bottom 'edit', and it allows you to add new things to posts without making new ones. This topic is horribly long and new consecutive posts are making it even worse.

Would it be possible to give (read) access to the git/mercurial/other that you are using, to share the current development version of LotI?

No. I am using ext4 and it does not allow it.

For example, Elvish_Nightprowler.cfg has a description "shooting better when in shooting frenzy" which should be "shooting faster when in shooting frenzy". Or Seer.cg has an advancement with max_times=10 instead of max_times=1. I don't know if it is already corrected.

The first bug is known to me. The other one was already fixed. I think that it would be better if I uploaded more often.

I'm not sure it is a good idea.

It has been like that for over two years. It's because seasoned players make creative combinations of items and their units are horribly powerful. The items themselves are okay unless somebody makes crazy combinations of them. So I chose to solve the problem by having the experts play with weaker items. I can't just add loads of additional enemies because they would grant tons of extra experience and units would kill them just in retaliation without taking much damage themselves. I can't increase the enemy life significantly because it would need additional balancing between all enemies. Weaker items are a perfect solution.

And it is difficult to understand why (for example) Silver Axe always adds 35% damage, and Axe of Perun add 55/35/15% damage depending on the difficulty.

Axe of Perun is meant to be a rare and powerful item. On hard, however, it becomes important because of other useful properties, not just damage - it has slow. When used properly, a single unit with slow can influence the battle quite significantly as it can slow a leader and is not a squishy shaman. So I felt that the slowing property itself is good enough and it does not need huge damage. On the contrary, Silver Axe has no properties, just extra damage and thus does not have much extra value in the hands of an expert.

nother remark: it seems that if by using mind raid a unit gains a level, then no AMLA is proposed. I will try to make sure that it is the root cause of the bug, and find a patch.

It is possible. The advancement system is a bit buggy. But it broke horribly whenever I tried to make some changes in it. All errors should be gone if you add DISABLE_AMLA_WORKAROUND into campaign defines (can be in the save file), but the resulting performance is horrible. Wesnoth 1.13 has some nice changes that should allow fixing the weird parts, but the guy who almost finished it left and I never got myself into finishing it, sorry (don't consider me lazy though, I am just working on something else). If you have the motivation, it's around here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... start=4326 .