Legend of the Invincibles

[Dugi]

@SomeoneElse That is right - I have used the usual elder mages with a few modifications, but okay, they may use fireball (14-5 fire damage, let's say) and lightning (23-2 damage, let's say).
With the items, I have now rewritten it so that all units with an attack that is a sword-like attack (sword, longsword, greatsword, saber,...) can take swords. This should fix that problem. But the overhaul isn't finished yet.

@Fyr I was told about it too, fixed it, but not uploaded yet. After several minutes, it should start (it took about 20 seconds on my machine, so it shouln't take insanely long even on an improved calculator). But I didn't know that it will recall unwanted units.
Thanks for telling me about it.
There was no inspiration for names Efraim and Lethalia. I didn't want to give names with a meaning to the main characters. Efraim is simply an aristocratically sounding name (to me) and Efraim de Ceise sounds like 'decease'. Lethalia is simply made from the word 'lethal'.
(It's actually kinda weird that I talk to you in English when I live most of the time in Czech Republic too; so you might want to continue with PMs).

[Fyr]

Ok, tak v češtině no
Problém je-byl v
[recall]
race=elves
x,y=71,17
[/recall]

takže to přivolávalo elfí jednotky i ty neloayální až do vyčerpání maximálního počtu přivolanců.

A ještě jeden, naštěstí hodně minoritní bug, v hodně scénářích nemáš nastavený přivolávání Destroyera.

Edit: - Tak další bug no, v kole Bitter swamps jsou nejspíš špatně nastavené podmínky vítězství, po odehrání prvního kola to oznámí vítězství.

Jinak pokud sem psal anglicky nějaký blbosti, omlouvám se, umim sice bezproblémově překládat z AJ do ČJ ale s gramatickou správností překladu do AJ to už bejvá horší

Tou kalkulačkou sem nemyslel to že by byl nějakej problém s kampaní v rychlosti nebo tak, jen to že mi to naverbování asi 100 jednotek zamrzlo PC, nout mi vyhořel a tak sem zatim na záloze... co se nedá moc počítat za počítač xD

[Dugi]

Na těchto fórech by se mělo mluvit anglicky, proto jsem dodal, že by bylo ideální mi to poslat jenom v private message.
(Sorry for language, it won't happen again.)

Spoiler:

Ten problém s Destroyerem jsem dneska vyřešil, od další verze by se to stávat nemělo (ale mnoho vody přeteče, než dodělám šestou kapitolu, a teď by stejně některé části nefungovaly). Taky ten předošlej, co ti vodstavil PC (vono to také žere pořádňe RAM, ne jenom CPU, mně teď napadlo).

Ten bug v Bitter Swamp jsem vopravil také dneska. Příčinu furt nechápu, ale našel sem nějakej workaround.

A AJ právě nejlepší nemáš, ale dalo se to číst

A taky bych ti rád poslal PM vo těch věcech, co máš v sinature, no nemáš tam přirazenou e-mailovou adresu.

[Fyr]

To sorry for language.. my fault

Spoiler:

Sry, nějak sem přehlíd to PM... Překlad do AJ bych potřeboval pořádně cvičit, ale neni kde, Rozumět anglicky sem se naučil sám, opačně to je horší, ve škole stojí Angličtina za starou bačkoru, na nějaký doučování čas fakt nemam a lidi kolem mě anglicky neuměj, nebo mnohem hůř než já...

[Sagez]

Hat's off to you, Dugi! Very well made campaign, one of my favourite campaigns. Player can truly feel the power while playing it... I did not finished it yet, I'm starting part III. I have one small wish - could you please add AMLAs for Skeletal Dragon? You know, dragons are awesome and skeletal dragons are even more awesome, but at the moment this unit can't pick up any cool skils or whatever after advancing... it becomes a burden, it becomes weak when compared to other units... It think that it shouldn't!

Take care, very well done. To everybody: download it, it's really great.

[Dugi]

Not a bad idea. Never thought about it. I shall do it.

[Battlecruiser_Venca]

something about the RIPLIB which some of your unit violates: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=7205

[Dugi]

something about the RIPLIB which some of your unit violates: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=7205

Got it. Problems are units: Dragon Rider, Prophet and Destroyer, right?

[Celtic_Minstrel]

Got it. Problems are units: Dragon Rider, Prophet and Destroyer, right?

Uhh, there are quite a few more than that (based on perusal of units.wesnoth.org). In fact, nearly every single one of your additional level 4 or 5 units has problems, either in RIPLIB or in common sense and flavour. (There are three or four exceptions that are fine as-is.)

Dragon Rider is indeed one of them — if you ask me, it should advance only from the Grand Marshal and not from the Grand Knight or Cavalier, partly because that makes them skip a level and partly because this is homogenizing your army with three distinct advancement paths terminating in the same unit. (In fact, I'd go further and say it should not be a standard advancement but only a scripted one.)

There's nothing whatsoever wrong with the Paladin->Prophet with respect to RIPLIB. Its existing attacks are upgraded in damage and remain the same in strikes, it gets a third new attack, and it gains improved abilities (you could even say it might be a bit too much). On the other hand, Mage of Light->Prophet is nonsensical, although I'm not sure I can argue against it based on RIPLIB. Still — again here you have converging advancement lines, which is reducing the variety of your army over time. Furthermore, if you didn't have this advancement line, it would become acceptable to significantly reduce the Prophet's light beam power without worrying about RIPLIB, though whether that's something you may actually want to do, I don't know.

The destroyer, gryphon rider, overlord, and shadowwalker are travesties resulting from taking two (or in some cases, three!) very different units and trying to combine them into one all-purpose unit. (This actually applies to the prophet as well.) Don't do that — make distinct units for each advancement line.

The Royal Guard->Destroyer is okay, I'd say, but the Iron Mauler should be advancing to something with an impact attack that's stronger than their existing attack. It shouldn't be arbitrarily changing damage type for no reason.

The Elvish Gryphon Rider is just completely out of left field, much like the Dragon Rider. I could maybe see it advancing from the Outrider, but it doesn't make much sense for it to advance from the Sharpshooter.

The Elvish Nightprowler looks okay as an upgrade for the Avenger, though it's a little odd and has a minor potential RIPLIB violation in its ranged damage which is slight enough that it may be made up for by the addition of nightstalk.

The Overlord... uhh... what is this monster... Okay, so there are two distinct Elvish Overlords which are identical except... one of them... has both attacks worse? So uh, why would anyone choose the 9-5/6-5 Overlord over the 10-5/7-5 Overlord? The Overlord is also clearly a merger of the Elvish Lord line and the Elvish Fighter line, which is a bad thing. As I keep saying, the converging advancement lines are bad. Why bother specializing in different directions if they're just going to end up the same in the end anyway?

The Elvish Seer should not advance from Elvish Shyde... unless you make it a level 4 and then it doesn't advance from Elvish Sylph.

Necromancer should not advance to Ancient Lich. Create some kind of level four human necromancer instead. If the player wanted to become undead, they would've chosen to advance to Lich instead of Necromancer.

Remove the Shadowwalker. It's not redeemable. Seriously, five attacks stolen from two almost completely different units? The only think in common between the Master at Arms and the Assassin is the humanrace and (I think?) the elusivefoot movetype. It's absolutely nonsensical for them to advance to the same unit. Most of the other advancements are almost acceptable, but not this one. (The name is good though; take away a couple of its attacks and it might be a good advancement for the Assassin.)

The Deathlord is fine as an advancement for Death Knight. I don't think it should be an advancement for Draug. It's a minor RIPLIB violation with respect to Death Knight (possibly acceptable considering the addition of submerge), but a rather greater one with respect to Draug.

The Grim Knight is a nice unit on its own merits, but it's nonsensical as an upgrade for Deathblade or Chocobone. If you want an advancement line for it, why not import the skeleton rider line from another campaign? I think Liberty (mainline) has one and possibly also Invasion from the Unknown; I don't know how different they are. (All that said, it's semi-acceptable as an advancement from Chocobone, since that is technically a mounted unit even though it's not mounted on a horse.)

The Elder Mage is a violation of RIPLIB, I think. Apart from that I think it's okay; giving it teleport is an interesting touch.

The Scythemaster is nonsensical but I suppose it's kinda "cool". At least it doesn't violate RIPLIB. It shouldn't have the magical special though due to flavour reasons; if you want a chance-to-hit special, why not just go with marksman?

The Reaper is a nice idea, but again you've gone and merged two units into one. Remove the skirmisher and the backstab weapon, and I think it'd be a good advancement for the Spectre. Then you can think of something else for the Nightgaunt. (As an aside... perhaps when you upgrade this to 1.11, with its new Spectre graphic, you could use the old Spectre graphics for the Reaper with the addition of that black shroud behind it, rather than a modified Wraith.

I actually kinda like the look of the Renegade and the Marauder. Keep those! But please add special notes to the description so that I can see what on earth "quickstrike" does.

The Forester is nice, but he should only advance from Ranger, not from Huntsman.

In general, I'd say that you shouldn't fundamentally change the role of a unit in an advancement (unless there's an alternate choice that doesn't do so), and you should never make forced converging advancement lines where two or more units advance to the same unit as their only choice. Khalifate does have a converging line in its horsemen, but it's optional; you have a choice between the converging line and a separate line.

(Addendum: I haven't played your campaigns and have no idea if/when I'll get around to doing so, since I'm kinda slow with campaigns and kinda want to finish several more mainline ones before trying user-made ones. It's reasonably probable that I'll get to yours sometime... uh... maybe in 2014? <_< )

[Dugi]

It's not uploaded yet, but Destroyer now uses morning stars and has less attacks (22-3, I think), and advances only from Iron Mauler. Royal Guard advances into Blademaster, that is a two-bladed sword user with 9-6 damage (I think), with similar resistances to Royal Guard. There should be no RIPLIB issues with these guys.

Scythemaster has magical because of the whirlwind weapon special, that hits all adjacent units - and the player would choose to attack the unit with the lowest defence to hit all units with the highest chance to hit (aims at a heavy infantryman in water, damages heavily a master-at-arms in a village) - so I decided that it would be the best if all targets had the same chance to be hit.

Marauder and Renegade are quite uninteresting units, simple improvements of existing ones, so I am thinking about replacing them with something more interesting. Now making Shadow Prince to replace Renegade.

The reason why many advancement lines are merged is that I would didn't have more ideas what should these units advance into. Thug advances into Bandit, Bandit advances into Highwayman, Highwayman advances into Marauder (same with Soul Shooter, Champion Bowman or Renegade (btw, quickstrike means that if he attacks before he moves, he can move after attacking)), but it isn't interesting at all! - he gains damage and hitpoints, but that is all, so he should advance into something that is more than a mere improvement of existing stats. Like when Elvish Archer advances - marksman or ambush? Or when Spearman advances - sword, pike, or javelins?

I had some ideas, I put them into the campaign. When I will get more ideas, I will create more units, and possibly separate the advancement lines, but it would be crappy if Outrider could advance into Gryphon Rider, while Sharpshooter had no advancement, because I had no ideas what should he become (well, maybe Sharpshooter could advance into Gryphon Rider and have less movement, the description that he has gained enough marksmanship skill to fire precisely from any mount, and Outrider will become a Giant Cobra Rider instead who will get melee poison, commenting that horses were too boring for him). Anyway, the main purpose of these units is that unlike the regular max level units, their AMLA is useful. They can choose improvements that improve damage or other things in addition to +3 hitpoints and full heal.
Also, you can gear up each unit differently (that you will have to, as you will not find the same things many times), so two Deathlords will differ more than a Draug would differ from a Death Knight. Also, you play for various factions, so instead of having top level recalls like Elvish Sharpshooter,Avenger,Marshal,Champion,Shyde,Sylph,Outrider, you can have Elvish Gryphon Rider,Elvish Seer,Elvish Sprite (not published yet),Elvish Nightprowler,Elvish Overlord, Grim Knight, Deathlord, Ancient Lich, Soul Shooter, Reaper, Prophet, Elder Mage, Scythemaster, Blademaster, Destroyer and Dragon Rider (in chapter 2). There is no such thing as uniformity.

So, the problem you saw is not so significant if you play it. Please, next time, don't judge things after that you read about a part of it generated by a mindless program. After several hours of gameplay, you would see what it is truly about, and that the uniformity you saw there is something that you really won't see there.
If you will play it once, tell me if you had changed your mind after some 20 scenarios.

P.S. You also haven't seen there that my units are animated. Therefore, I could not use the old sprite of Spectre for Reaper, because it lacks any animations and it was uneasy to put them together (and it also kinda sucked).

[Celtic_Minstrel]

Scythemaster has magical because of the whirlwind weapon special, that hits all adjacent units - and the player would choose to attack the unit with the lowest defence to hit all units with the highest chance to hit (aims at a heavy infantryman in water, damages heavily a master-at-arms in a village) - so I decided that it would be the best if all targets had the same chance to be hit.

Ah, I suppose that's reasonable.

Marauder and Renegade are quite uninteresting units, simple improvements of existing ones, so I am thinking about replacing them with something more interesting. Now making Shadow Prince to replace Renegade.

Fair enough.

it would be crappy if Outrider could advance into Gryphon Rider, while Sharpshooter had no advancement, because I had no ideas what should he become

I kinda disagree; not all advancement lines need to be the same length. I do see the logic behind it, I guess.

So, the problem you saw is not so significant if you play it. Please, next time, don't judge things after that you read about a part of it generated by a mindless program. After several hours of gameplay, you would see what it is truly about, and that the uniformity you saw there is something that you really won't see there.

My comments were based largely on the website but also partly on discussions with someone who has played the scenario, so while some parts of my arguments (eg uniformity) may be unfounded, I do have a little (indirect) experience of the actual scenario.

If you will play it once, tell me if you had changed your mind after some 20 scenarios.

I don't think I'd ever change my mind on the converging lines and certain arguments about individual units (eg shadowwalker), but I wouldn't be surprised to find some of my arguments voided.

P.S. You also haven't seen there that my units are animated. Therefore, I could not use the old sprite of Spectre for Reaper, because it lacks any animations and it was uneasy to put them together (and it also kinda sucked).

Ah, fair enough. The current one is nice nevertheless.

[Dugi]

...has played the scenario...

The scenario? It is a long campaign, the scenario, you probably meant its multiplayer scenario, is simply a multiplayer to the campaign, and does not have too much in common with the campaign (storyline setting, mechanics, units).

I kinda disagree; not all advancement lines need to be the same length.

If units on max-levels have AMLA, it matters a LOT. Experience on other units is a complete waste then. The advancement line would not converge if I had more ideas. But for now, it is better as it is. If anyone have a suggestion to make a unit that advances from something and is not a completely boring numerical improvement of an existing unit, don't hesitate and write about it.

Secondly, I have finished an overhaul of the campaign, chapter 6 is partially written (hidden the that version), and I would need somebody to test it, and mostly help me to balance it (I mean feedback of the kind more enemy gold, less enemy gold, more enemies, less villages, less drops, etc, for every scenario that seems to be unbalanced). Changelog is inside the archive.
Many older nuissances and problems are fixed in that version, but new issues might be present there, although they should not be.

[Celtic_Minstrel]

...has played the scenario...

The scenario? It is a long campaign, the scenario, you probably meant its multiplayer scenario, is simply a multiplayer to the campaign, and does not have too much in common with the campaign (storyline setting, mechanics, units).

Um, sorry, I keep saying "scenario" when I mean "campaign".

If units on max-levels have AMLA, it matters a LOT. Experience on other units is a complete waste then.

I suppose you mean when some units have AMLAs and others don't, in which case I see your point, but replacing existing level 3 units with identical copies that have AMLAs is also an option (though a more complicated one).

If anyone have a suggestion to make a unit that advances from something and is not a completely boring numerical improvement of an existing unit, don't hesitate and write about it.

Fair enough. I'll do that if I think of something.

[Kanzil]

Secondly, I have finished an overhaul of the campaign, chapter 6 is partially written (hidden the that version), and I would need somebody to test it, and mostly help me to balance it (I mean feedback of the kind more enemy gold, less enemy gold, more enemies, less villages, less drops, etc, for every scenario that seems to be unbalanced). Changelog is inside the archive.
Many older nuissances and problems are fixed in that version, but new issues might be present there, although they should not be.

I will get to work...

[Faerie_Storm]

...has played the scenario...

The scenario? It is a long campaign, the scenario, you probably meant its multiplayer scenario, is simply a multiplayer to the campaign, and does not have too much in common with the campaign (storyline setting, mechanics, units).

I'm the person Celtic Minstrel was talking to who has played your campaign.

I kinda disagree; not all advancement lines need to be the same length.

If units on max-levels have AMLA, it matters a LOT. Experience on other units is a complete waste then. The advancement line would not converge if I had more ideas. But for now, it is better as it is. If anyone have a suggestion to make a unit that advances from something and is not a completely boring numerical improvement of an existing unit, don't hesitate and write about it.

Having played the campaign I have to say I dislike the converging lines. After levelling one sharpshooter to a gryphon rider, I was rather disappointed that he became mounted and his ranged attack did not improve, but he got a improvement on his melee attack instead. For an outrider it is also a very huge jump on the damage output. For the sharpshooter, the ranged damage did not increase. If the sharpshooter upgraded to maybe a master sharpshooter instead, that would improve this line. Also I remember levelling up a mage to a silver mage and not getting teleport until the first AMLA. I can post some more ideas as i think of them.