Legend of the Invincibles

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply

Which of these crafting recipes you are using or planning to use? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

The End of All that Is
4
9%
Gloombringer
1
2%
Soul Eclipse
4
9%
Guerilla
5
11%
Scaryface
6
13%
Thundering Revenge
2
4%
Marie Byrd
4
9%
Marrowrend
11
23%
Deathblade Inheritance
0
No votes
Soul Render
10
21%
 
Total votes: 47

AlaskanAvenger
Posts: 156
Joined: February 23rd, 2011, 9:10 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by AlaskanAvenger » March 7th, 2019, 5:31 am

I've made two complete play throughs now, once a year or so ago, then just played it again over the last couple weeks. First thing I want to say is I absolutely love this campaign (especially after the second play through). I'd thought I'd just come one here and give my general thoughts.

The first time I played the first campaign on medium, found it to be relatively easy, then switched to hard for the second campaign for a better challenge and had my ass handed to me repeatedly. I limped through the first 3 chapters with a bit of loading, then had a very rough time of it in inferno. In the end I just gave up and debugged through the last several levels of inferno to see how it ended, then had even more trouble once I switched back to the kids story-line. I don't remember enough to make any real comment about different levels, and as I saw in my last play through tht there had been significant changes anyways so it is largely irrelevant.

My most recent play-through was far more enjoyable. I played the first campaign on hard, and for the most part just breezed through it. The meteor ability was so strong, especially with magic bonuses that I just gave Efraim and Lethalia all my strongest items, and they were almost indestructible. After defeating Baal and having my units reset, I never recruited any more units until entering the fortress for the final showdown, and as it turned out that was largely unnecessary. I went straight to Akula's place without weakening the defenses at all and defeated her without much trouble using meteors and a couple potions.

I only have two real complaints for the first campaign. The first was a minor annoyance that I was unable to recall my favorite Demilich (or any other undead) that I had equipped with a large number of strong items when I was using the greater spells upon entering Akula's fortress. The second was more a general critic of the general style. Until the very end the enemies are mostly default Wesnoth units and completely incapable of posing any real threat to my ultimate troops. Even Akula's modified troops were almost entirely helpless against my elite guard which left the campaign feeling too easy. When I go back for another play through I'll probably just skip the first entirely and go to the second where the demons really shake things up.


The second campaign felt really good. I played it on hard again, but this time knowing what I was going to be facing I started building my elite core of troops from the very beginning specifically to deal with demons in inferno. I had a few bruisers with all resists over 50%, the best of which with leadership from my Duke was capable of outputting over 2500 damage on the offense, a dwarvish protector as an ultimate tank with over 80% on all resistances, several high damage units with hit and run, a couple Celestial Messengers, a 36 HP healer, and couple other useful troops. To top it all off my units had some mix of greater illumination, slow in melee and range, and some form of sustain. By the time I got to inferno I was well prepared, and although I got bogged down in a couple scenario and was forced to take a defensive stance, I was always able to retreat or move on to the next one by triggering the exit with my 17 MP hit and run champion.

I'm not sure if it was a bug or not but for the final scenario when Efraim and Lethalia return I was unable to access any of the extra items I had had in inferno, it was also a little annoying having the AMLA on Krux and Vritra reset in the 5th chapter, especially seeing there weren't that many scenarios left. Regardless, I really just wanted to say how much I enjoyed this campaign and thank you for all the work you've put into it. I'll almost certainly be back for another play through at some point, especially seeing that you are still working on various improvements.

Whiskeyjack
Posts: 427
Joined: February 7th, 2015, 1:27 am
Location: Germany

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Whiskeyjack » March 7th, 2019, 11:40 am

dabber wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 8:12 pm
I had the idea of taking a bunch of random item drops and making them specific set items. This has the virtue of being easy. I also wanted to add extra story flavor to each drop, but I haven't managed to do that. I'll go ahead and post this now without the attempts at extra story text.
I have to confess that I shied away from the idea of having specific item drops. I think that (as Dugi mentioned recently) it hurts the replay value und fun of building up your squad if you know that you will get certain items at certain points (and it might also be frustratingif you just need a certain item and know that it's the last one placed in a scenario, while you always have the chance to get it now if the drops are random). However, I can also see the problem that you still might not be able to finish some sets (especially Eidolons), if the drops are randomized to the item set pool. I would be really interested to hear more of your reasoning on this! :)

Edit: I just took a closer look at your specific suggestions. I'd be a little worried that you might skew the power curve with so many set items in chapter 7 (perhaps have some more in chapter 8 or even 9?). Also: Aren't set item drops in chapter 10 basically useless for this endeavour because they are cut off from previous items?

I might also be able to help with writing some flavour text, although I'd have to look some more at the items story lines first, because I didn't pay much attention until now :lol:
(if you want the support would you be willing to send me an example of what you intended per PM?)
Under blood-red skies - an old man sits -
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.

dabber
Posts: 365
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber » March 7th, 2019, 2:57 pm

I have the same power curve concern, but any effort to make sets easier skews the curve, doesn't it? My method maybe skews it worse because it mainly adds rings, amulets and cloaks, which are hard to find at all. The replay value concern is one that I didn't think of, although you are correct to consider it a drawback.

I selected the items and locations with some intent. For example, the Un-set has some early drops, but that set isn't that good, especially early. I put two Pyromancer items in the volcano scenario. Two Gloomy items are available in shops in chapters 6 and 8, so I put the third as a drop in chapter 7. I intentionally put the Dark set early so you could create a character with hidden Dark Sword (like Dragon Rider).
The chapter 10 drops were not so much to create a set as to give something more useful. Like Rherraents armour I would never use ... except at the start of chapter 10 where anything is good. With no leaders having natural Penetrate, Legion Slayer is a capability that is hard to find (I get tired of mass crafting Murderlust).

StellarStar
Posts: 21
Joined: July 12th, 2018, 3:52 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by StellarStar » March 9th, 2019, 4:21 pm

Under what category of weapon does the Dragon Knights bite attack fall? Also why doesnt Efraim get the skirmisher trait after he is reborn, he had it before he became a lich. The cold trait for high level demons is so overpowerd cause a Man'O War has 58*5, Demon despots have 75*5 and Arch Demons have 103*7.

Whiskeyjack
Posts: 427
Joined: February 7th, 2015, 1:27 am
Location: Germany

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Whiskeyjack » March 9th, 2019, 5:33 pm

StellarStar wrote:
March 9th, 2019, 4:21 pm
Under what category of weapon does the Dragon Knights bite attack fall? Also why doesnt Efraim get the skirmisher trait after he is reborn, he had it before he became a lich. The cold trait for high level demons is so overpowerd cause a Man'O War has 58*5, Demon despots have 75*5 and Arch Demons have 103*7.
Bite is one of the few attacks that have no weapon type (another is chaos riders stomp). I can't remember the full reason behind this, but when this gap was closed for some units (touch attacks of the faerie units, the specters attack, and anything else that is covered by the otherworldly essence crafts) there where intentionally left some without item options. This is supposedly balanced through stronger AMLAs.

Some demons really become extremely powerful. I had one in my first Inferno map with something like 86 - 6 and conviction that could basically oneshot any of my units by itself. However, those are rare and I like the challenge of certain units you have to obliterate before they have any chance to attack. Although I reload a turn occasionally because I couldn't be bothered to check every demon for this...
Under blood-red skies - an old man sits -
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.

StellarStar
Posts: 21
Joined: July 12th, 2018, 3:52 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by StellarStar » March 10th, 2019, 6:47 pm

I need help with "Another Orchis Invasion". If I try and head straight for the enemy leader the orcs get destroyed and if I try to help them only Krux and Vritra survive.

AlaskanAvenger
Posts: 156
Joined: February 23rd, 2011, 9:10 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by AlaskanAvenger » March 10th, 2019, 11:01 pm

StellarStar wrote:
March 9th, 2019, 4:21 pm
The cold trait for high level demons is so overpowerd cause a Man'O War has 58*5, Demon despots have 75*5 and Arch Demons have 103*7.
Just to take the Man'O War as they are the most common high power demon to run into, with a hefty 290 max damage. IMO your front line troops should have 50% or very close to that resist to cold and arcane, if you then back that up with a legacy of kings unit to add another 20, you've cut that 290 damage down to 90 max, still painful but not near as bad. Greater illumination is relatively easy to obtain which can it down by another 40% to a max of 52 damage. At that point any serious front line troop should be able to eat that without too much issue, especially as that is max damage, however, if you throw in a first strike aura and slow ranged attacks, both of which are relatively easy to obtain, you can cut the max realistic damage down to as low as 26, at which point any front-line troop could eat that and not even have to retreat for healing. If in the worst case scenario you are hit with a conviction penalty, you are still seeing a max realistic damage of around 45, and that is not counting any other debuffs you could throw at them such as despair.

It certainly requires a degree of strategic planning and execution to build and deploy your army in such a way to take advantage of all these buffs but at least for me it really adds to the overall enjoyment of the campaign.

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4931
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi » March 13th, 2019, 10:06 pm

white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 10:39 pm
Dugi wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 9:18 pm
I have already mentioned that there should be less enemies and more items at the start of chapter 10. So you support this idea, I assume?
Possibly. I don't know what the "right" answer would be, but at least some of the junior units should be allowed to live long enough to advance.
I was quite able to defeat them by rushing at individual demons, slowing them and striking them until they died. But that might not work after all the rebalances that took place since then. Reducing their quantity should make it possible to attack them one by one again.
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 10:39 pm
After a couple dozen turns with all portals seen (not necessarily visited, I didn't track it on paper or anything), I gave one unit 1000 MP and just ran around randomly. I never found the way out.
I think you were doing it wrong. I could explore it quite fast. If I recall correctly, I left one unit in every visited room and stormed newly discovered areas with several units, always checking all portals.

white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 10:39 pm
For me, replayability is about trying new strategies, such as distributing XP and items widely vs building up a core team of superheroes. If there's a lot of randomness, it's not really possible to determine whether an better/worse outcome is due to a superior/inferior strategy or just luck.
You cannot check which strategy is better. That that does not matter. What matters is that you try a new one.

white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 10:39 pm
I'm not sure if those are obvious or not to people who have some familiarity with the GR mythology. I would have guessed they were references to Clint Eastwood westerns (something I'm also not familiar with).
You don't listen to rock music?
Whiskeyjack wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 1:59 pm
See attached file - Lethalia already has Staff of Crelanu. Now move her south-west so she gets into range of her staff. Had 100% reproducibility for me.
Edit: I just realized you might mean the loyal thing - I have no save for that one, could only look for a replay if that helps?
The code for unequipping her old staff was never written. It lay there unnoticed for SIX YEARS. Because inventory manipulation is currently subject to change, I have created an issue and left it parked on github until it can be solved in a way that won't have to be rewritten soon.

Whiskeyjack wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 1:59 pm
Set bonuses, e.g. for completing (2) or (4) items or the like sound really nice and would be an improvement IMHO. I think two things should be kept in mind for a redesign though: [...]
The effects are still properties of items, they just no longer have to depend on having specific items but on having a certain number of a given group. So the Armour of the Kings may have the extra attack as its property that requires the other two items.

This can certainly allow alternative weapons for the sets without making units capable of picking more of these weapons too strong.

Whiskeyjack wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 1:59 pm
About acquiring sets: My thoughts went more in a deterministic direction: Currently (on hard, so more enemies = more drops, to be transparent) I get so many item drops that items hidden on the map are a drop in the ocean (except very early on) and don't matter much. The only reason I actually bother to pick the out-of-the-way ones up is that I'm playing LotI too completionistic. Changing some of them to forced set drops would help in a big way and also make looking for hidden items meaningful again.
There are two unique items hidden in a cave that you don't even have to find if you go straight towards the target and in an obviously dead end road. Maybe I could create a few unique items and make them randomly spawn only in some of the hidden locations.

I am not intending to make the drops deterministic in any way. If you don't complete one set, you can complete another set. The traders' stock is deterministic because I was lazy to make them sell random items. It will be easier to implement in near future, so my plan is to give them a large random collection of items so that there would be a good chance that you can buy at least one of the items you need a lot.
Whiskeyjack wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 1:59 pm
Also: When Beelzebub was first implemented I pretty much always got 2-4 set items from him and I feel like the impact of the increased item number can be felt especially heavy here - I reloaded my last kill on him >10 times and usually got 1 set drop (which is especially annoying if it's yet another Eidolons Armour :lol: ). This might again be due to statistical differences, so take it with a grain of salt, but killing him certainly felt way less impactful than in the last versions I played. So I'd also suggest having him drop ~2 items from the set item pool automatically.
Another edit: Though I just realized that might also have been part one, where I got a lot more drops of, e.g., the Wisdom set - IIRC there are items only available in part II, which might further influence the % of set item drops!?
Some items are disabled in part I, so the chances to get set items are different.
I could make item sets more powerful while I'm rewriting them to make collecting them more rewarding, even if the set isn't complete.
Whiskeyjack wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 1:59 pm
If I ever get the time I'll also look through the list of items and take a look at item identities. One example where I think item changes (or even removal of one) might be necessitated would be with the amulets Black Widow and Demon Core which are pretty much the same [useless filler, I might add] items (at least on hard) after the suck nerfs, while one of them (Demon Core, I think) was a very strong item beforehand.
It's possible some of them have become too similar and I had not noticed. I have altered both of them to make them more different, Black Widow now gives more resistances but not arcane resistance, Demon Core now doesn't give the poison weapon special but its suck is available at all difficulties and it also has spell suck on easy.

If you find more problems like this, please report it.
dabber wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 8:12 pm
I had the idea of taking a bunch of random item drops and making them specific set items. This has the virtue of being easy. I also wanted to add extra story flavor to each drop, but I haven't managed to do that. I'll go ahead and post this now without the attempts at extra story text.
Deterministic drops limit replayability. I would prefer to go the opposite way:
  • Create several special rare items that would appear only in hidden places, rather than have their places fixed
  • Have the traders offer much more items, but made available at random, in order to get at least some of the items you desperately need
  • Make item sets better even if they are not completed
AlaskanAvenger wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 5:31 am
I only have two real complaints for the first campaign. The first was a minor annoyance that I was unable to recall my favorite Demilich (or any other undead) that I had equipped with a large number of strong items when I was using the greater spells upon entering Akula's fortress.
It should recall units from chapters 1-3, then units from chapter 4, then random units. The ordering is not determined in any way. You were probably just unlucky.
AlaskanAvenger wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 5:31 am
The second was more a general critic of the general style. Until the very end the enemies are mostly default Wesnoth units and completely incapable of posing any real threat to my ultimate troops. Even Akula's modified troops were almost entirely helpless against my elite guard which left the campaign feeling too easy. When I go back for another play through I'll probably just skip the first entirely and go to the second where the demons really shake things up.
Maybe the difficulty was set too low. Higher difficulty doesn't only give more gold to enemies, it also reduces the power of your items. You can make far more powerful units on easy than on hard.
AlaskanAvenger wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 5:31 am
I'm not sure if it was a bug or not but for the final scenario when Efraim and Lethalia return I was unable to access any of the extra items I had had in inferno, it was also a little annoying having the AMLA on Krux and Vritra reset in the 5th chapter, especially seeing there weren't that many scenarios left. Regardless, I really just wanted to say how much I enjoyed this campaign and thank you for all the work you've put into it. I'll almost certainly be back for another play through at some point, especially seeing that you are still working on various improvements.
The storing and unstoring of items is currently being altered, so the buggy part will be rewritten anyway.
StellarStar wrote:
March 9th, 2019, 4:21 pm
Also why doesnt Efraim get the skirmisher trait after he is reborn, he had it before he became a lich.
Efraim the Lich with skirmisher would be too powerful.
StellarStar wrote:
March 9th, 2019, 4:21 pm
The cold trait for high level demons is so overpowerd cause a Man'O War has 58*5, Demon despots have 75*5 and Arch Demons have 103*7.
In addition to the other stuff people have written, their damage depends on difficulty.
StellarStar wrote:
March 10th, 2019, 6:47 pm
I need help with "Another Orchis Invasion". If I try and head straight for the enemy leader the orcs get destroyed and if I try to help them only Krux and Vritra survive.
My strategy was to attack demons that are fighting with orcs with all force and have the orcs protect my units. They were not taking too much damage because my army kept restricting the number of demons they faced.

AlaskanAvenger
Posts: 156
Joined: February 23rd, 2011, 9:10 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by AlaskanAvenger » March 13th, 2019, 11:13 pm

Dugi wrote:
March 13th, 2019, 10:06 pm
AlaskanAvenger wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 5:31 am
The second was more a general critic of the general style. Until the very end the enemies are mostly default Wesnoth units and completely incapable of posing any real threat to my ultimate troops. Even Akula's modified troops were almost entirely helpless against my elite guard which left the campaign feeling too easy. When I go back for another play through I'll probably just skip the first entirely and go to the second where the demons really shake things up.
Maybe the difficulty was set too low. Higher difficulty doesn't only give more gold to enemies, it also reduces the power of your items. You can make far more powerful units on easy than on hard.
I was playing on hard difficulty. If I play through again I'll make a more careful note of which scenarios in particular felt too easy, but my general impression of the first campaign, particularly the later half was that the hard difficulty was too easy, primarily because with careful mixing of damage, sustain, and resist you can make units that are almost invulnerable. Sorry I can't offer anything more concrete.

Robert_A_Booey
Posts: 3
Joined: January 16th, 2012, 5:16 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Robert_A_Booey » March 14th, 2019, 9:32 am

Hello,

First, thank you for all the time and effort you've put into creating this campaign. I'm having a lot of fun playing through it, and I like how you've tied the story into Wesnoth's canon lore.

I'm having a small problem with the scenario "Escape" (the one...
Spoiler:
).

As soon as the map loads, it immediately ends in defeat after showing the following LUA error:

lua/wml-tags.lua:403: bad argument #1 to '__index' (unknown unit)
stack traceback:
[C]: in metamethod '__index'
lua/wml-tags.lua:403: in local 'cmd'
lua/wml-utils.lua:145: in field 'handle_event_commands'
lua/wml-flow.lua:6 in function <lua/wml-flow.lua:5>


I've tried to enable debug mode to skip past it using both "next_level" and "choose_level" but they both just return me to the main screen after using them.

Is there some way I can use the LUA console to get past this?

I'd really like to be able to play this through to the end.

Thank you! :D

Whiskeyjack
Posts: 427
Joined: February 7th, 2015, 1:27 am
Location: Germany

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Whiskeyjack » March 14th, 2019, 12:09 pm

Dugi wrote:
March 13th, 2019, 10:06 pm
The effects are still properties of items, they just no longer have to depend on having specific items but on having a certain number of a given group. So the Armour of the Kings may have the extra attack as its property that requires the other two items.

This can certainly allow alternative weapons for the sets without making units capable of picking more of these weapons too strong.
Ah, alright! That sounds like a good solution - looking forward to the rework! :-)

An idea that just came to me: instead of dropping different weapons for one set, there could be a crafting option to transform the item type of a set weapon - e.g., bow to crossbow/thunderstick (although there isn't any bow set, is there? :D ), sword to dagger/scythe/spear, and vice versa with a gem price attached. No idea if this is feasible to implement, but it might be cooler than having even more different items drop.
Dugi wrote:
March 13th, 2019, 10:06 pm
There are two unique items hidden in a cave that you don't even have to find if you go straight towards the target and in an obviously dead end road. Maybe I could create a few unique items and make them randomly spawn only in some of the hidden locations.
The Orb of Wrath and... ? Is the second one the item in part one or did I just never find it? :D
Dugi wrote:
March 13th, 2019, 10:06 pm
I am not intending to make the drops deterministic in any way. If you don't complete one set, you can complete another set. The traders' stock is deterministic because I was lazy to make them sell random items. It will be easier to implement in near future, so my plan is to give them a large random collection of items so that there would be a good chance that you can buy at least one of the items you need a lot.
Hm, I don't think more unique items are necessary (although certainly cool) and especially items that do not take a slot are very powerful - possibilities of stacking them would have to be carefully considered.
My suggestion wasn't meant to be fully deterministic, I thought of it like this: You have a pool that contains all set items. Some of the hidden items now draw from that pool directly instead of the overall item pool. This way, the drop would still be random, the only determinism would be in the fact that some set item will be lying there. If that is still too deterministic, you can always include the normal item pool with a certain probability (e.g., 50% normal item, 50% item from the item set pool).
Dugi wrote:
March 13th, 2019, 10:06 pm
I could make item sets more powerful while I'm rewriting them to make collecting them more rewarding, even if the set isn't complete.
That might be helpful for some of the sets - I will sit down and take notes for the sets sometime in the coming days.


Is it intentional that Eidolon's Coat only has 6 effects (no effect for the boots)?

Edit: Since it seems this gets reworked anyway: a quality of life change to traders would be that buying an item returns me to the buy screen instead of closing it - whenever I want to dump useless gold reserves into gems I have to run circles around the trader for a lot of turns :lol:
Under blood-red skies - an old man sits -
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.

white_haired_uncle
Posts: 569
Joined: August 26th, 2018, 11:46 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by white_haired_uncle » March 14th, 2019, 9:06 pm

Dugi wrote:
March 13th, 2019, 10:06 pm
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 10:39 pm
Dugi wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 9:18 pm
I have already mentioned that there should be less enemies and more items at the start of chapter 10. So you support this idea, I assume?
Possibly. I don't know what the "right" answer would be, but at least some of the junior units should be allowed to live long enough to advance.
I was quite able to defeat them by rushing at individual demons, slowing them and striking them until they died. But that might not work after all the rebalances that took place since then. Reducing their quantity should make it possible to attack them one by one again.
IIRC, the first scenario has individual demons, but shortly after that your barely advanced units are taking on packs of over a dozen. And of course quite often when I would surround a singleton it would end up with ~1HP and then kill my unit closest to levelling up.
Dugi wrote:
March 13th, 2019, 10:06 pm
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 10:39 pm
After a couple dozen turns with all portals seen (not necessarily visited, I didn't track it on paper or anything), I gave one unit 1000 MP and just ran around randomly. I never found the way out.
I think you were doing it wrong. I could explore it quite fast. If I recall correctly, I left one unit in every visited room and stormed newly discovered areas with several units, always checking all portals.


Could have been dumb luck. We'll see if anyone else gets stuck there.
Dugi wrote:
March 13th, 2019, 10:06 pm
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 10:39 pm
For me, replayability is about trying new strategies, such as distributing XP and items widely vs building up a core team of superheroes. If there's a lot of randomness, it's not really possible to determine whether an better/worse outcome is due to a superior/inferior strategy or just luck.
You cannot check which strategy is better. That that does not matter. What matters is that you try a new one.


In that case, why would I try a new one? It's like a being presented a puzzle and being told there's no solution.
Dugi wrote:
March 13th, 2019, 10:06 pm
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 10:39 pm
I'm not sure if those are obvious or not to people who have some familiarity with the GR mythology. I would have guessed they were references to Clint Eastwood westerns (something I'm also not familiar with).
You don't listen to rock music?
I used to, but then everyone wanted to sound like Nickelback. Even the local alternative rock station folded up when there was no alternative anymore.

StellarStar
Posts: 21
Joined: July 12th, 2018, 3:52 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by StellarStar » March 14th, 2019, 9:32 pm

Sorry I just cant. The orc AI suicided 11 units to deal 10 damage to a demon. I've crafted gear for the whole squad, I've killed every demon in the first scenario and I am just stuck

white_haired_uncle
Posts: 569
Joined: August 26th, 2018, 11:46 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by white_haired_uncle » March 14th, 2019, 9:36 pm

AlaskanAvenger wrote:
March 13th, 2019, 11:13 pm
Dugi wrote:
March 13th, 2019, 10:06 pm
AlaskanAvenger wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 5:31 am
The second was more a general critic of the general style. Until the very end the enemies are mostly default Wesnoth units and completely incapable of posing any real threat to my ultimate troops. Even Akula's modified troops were almost entirely helpless against my elite guard which left the campaign feeling too easy. When I go back for another play through I'll probably just skip the first entirely and go to the second where the demons really shake things up.
Maybe the difficulty was set too low. Higher difficulty doesn't only give more gold to enemies, it also reduces the power of your items. You can make far more powerful units on easy than on hard.
I was playing on hard difficulty. If I play through again I'll make a more careful note of which scenarios in particular felt too easy, but my general impression of the first campaign, particularly the later half was that the hard difficulty was too easy, primarily because with careful mixing of damage, sustain, and resist you can make units that are almost invulnerable. Sorry I can't offer anything more concrete.
I agree. Some units get so powerful they take virtually no damage, and the AI seems to throw all its forces at them. There are some scenarios where I'd send one unit to attack half the enemy, while the rest of my army went another direction to take on the other half.

You might want to check out Affably Evil if you haven't already.

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4931
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi » March 14th, 2019, 10:55 pm

AlaskanAvenger wrote:
March 13th, 2019, 11:13 pm
I was playing on hard difficulty. If I play through again I'll make a more careful note of which scenarios in particular felt too easy, but my general impression of the first campaign, particularly the later half was that the hard difficulty was too easy, primarily because with careful mixing of damage, sustain, and resist you can make units that are almost invulnerable. Sorry I can't offer anything more concrete.
Okay, a specific listing what could be made harder should be handy. I'll try to make up a better solution than just more enemies.
Robert_A_Booey wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 9:32 am
First, thank you for all the time and effort you've put into creating this campaign. I'm having a lot of fun playing through it, and I like how you've tied the story into Wesnoth's canon lore.
Thanks.
Robert_A_Booey wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 9:32 am
I'm having a small problem with the scenario "Escape" (the one...
Spoiler:
).

As soon as the map loads, it immediately ends in defeat after showing the following LUA error:

lua/wml-tags.lua:403: bad argument #1 to '__index' (unknown unit)
stack traceback:
[C]: in metamethod '__index'
lua/wml-tags.lua:403: in local 'cmd'
lua/wml-utils.lua:145: in field 'handle_event_commands'
lua/wml-flow.lua:6 in function <lua/wml-flow.lua:5>
Can you please provide a save file named LotI1-Escape.gz (without anything about autosaves in the generated name?). The error message means just that there is a broken unit somewhere.

Also, can you please try LotI beta from the server? I think that this was fixed some time after the latest release.
Whiskeyjack wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 12:09 pm
An idea that just came to me: instead of dropping different weapons for one set, there could be a crafting option to transform the item type of a set weapon - e.g., bow to crossbow/thunderstick (although there isn't any bow set, is there? :D ), sword to dagger/scythe/spear, and vice versa with a gem price attached. No idea if this is feasible to implement, but it might be cooler than having even more different items drop.
I'll think of it. I have not pondered this idea before.
Whiskeyjack wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 12:09 pm
The Orb of Wrath and... ? Is the second one the item in part one or did I just never find it? :D
Ring of Wisdom. Hidden early in Chapter 3.
Whiskeyjack wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 12:09 pm
Hm, I don't think more unique items are necessary (although certainly cool) and especially items that do not take a slot are very powerful - possibilities of stacking them would have to be carefully considered.
I don't intend to make them take no inventory slots. Those that take no inventory slots are only two in the whole campaign, in chapters 3 and 8 and I found the power issue acceptable because their supply is so limited.
Whiskeyjack wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 12:09 pm
My suggestion wasn't meant to be fully deterministic, I thought of it like this: You have a pool that contains all set items. Some of the hidden items now draw from that pool directly instead of the overall item pool. This way, the drop would still be random, the only determinism would be in the fact that some set item will be lying there. If that is still too deterministic, you can always include the normal item pool with a certain probability (e.g., 50% normal item, 50% item from the item set pool).
That's pretty much the same as adjusting the drop probabilities.

Whiskeyjack wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 12:09 pm
Is it intentional that Eidolon's Coat only has 6 effects (no effect for the boots)?
I don't think I was trying to make every Eidolon's item benefit from all other Eidolon's items. There are probably more synergies missing.
Whiskeyjack wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 12:09 pm
Edit: Since it seems this gets reworked anyway: a quality of life change to traders would be that buying an item returns me to the buy screen instead of closing it - whenever I want to dump useless gold reserves into gems I have to run circles around the trader for a lot of turns :lol:
I was thinking about making a window that opens and lets you buy stuff. Something similar to the new crafting UI.
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 9:06 pm
IIRC, the first scenario has individual demons, but shortly after that your barely advanced units are taking on packs of over a dozen. And of course quite often when I would surround a singleton it would end up with ~1HP and then kill my unit closest to levelling up.
In which scenario does it get too bad?
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 9:06 pm
Could have been dumb luck. We'll see if anyone else gets stuck there.
I did it more than once.
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 9:06 pm
In that case, why would I try a new one? It's like a being presented a puzzle and being told there's no solution.
It's not a puzzle requiring you to find a best solution. It's a set of puzzles where you have to find a solution for each. The fun is in finding solutions.

white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 9:06 pm
I used to, but then everyone wanted to sound like Nickelback. Even the local alternative rock station folded up when there was no alternative anymore.
Rock music is so vast with so many subgenres that you have probably only scratched the surface if you tell that. Grim Reaper is pretty common across all of them. It's also where much of my inspiration to write campaigns came from.

StellarStar wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 9:32 pm
Sorry I just cant. The orc AI suicided 11 units to deal 10 damage to a demon. I've crafted gear for the whole squad, I've killed every demon in the first scenario and I am just stuck
That's not what I meant. You kill. The orcs stand in their way.

Post Reply