Legend of the Invincibles

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Elvish Nightprowler
5
14%
Elvish Overlord
0
No votes
Elvish Seer
7
19%
Elvish Warlord
1
3%
Exterminator
5
14%
Forester
0
No votes
Goblin Ravager
0
No votes
Goblin Warbanner
0
No votes
Grim Knight
0
No votes
Faerie Incarnation
8
22%
Infernal Knight
1
3%
Lich King
3
8%
Lunatic Knight
4
11%
Monstrosity
0
No votes
Orcish Nightblade
0
No votes
Orcish Strafer
1
3%
Pilum Master
0
No votes
Orcish Warmonger
1
3%
Phantom
0
No votes
Predator
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 36

Serane
Posts: 6
Joined: June 16th, 2013, 1:39 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Serane »

Regarding temptation, wouldn't it be logical to make at least the undead units immune to it? Also maybe Lethalia/Efraim after they've turned undead, or perhaps a bit before it, after their relationship has started to deepen into more than just companions.

That wasn't what I wanted to write about, though. Just something I picked up while reading the last forum page, people talking about tempation resistance and such. What I wanted to suggest, was about legacy. After you decide to pick legacy instead of a different upgrade, shouldn't it be possible to see what your legacy is, instead of waiting until your unit levels up the next time, or try to remember all your units' legacies out of memory?

Thanks in advance if you decide to do something about these, just my thoughts on improving some aspects of the game.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

@Raijer
A lot of corrections was made with the preparation of the German translation. The translation team is currently dysfunctional and you have to generate the po yourself or begin with the German one or I can ask Chewan the German translator to make one for you.

@Serane
Undead should be immune to it, maybe the last uploaded version does not have undead immune but my version has and the next one will have.

It is intentional that you don't see instantly what the legacy is because if it would be easy to reload an older save file and choose some other advancement instead. Once you have selected one legacy advancement, you can see which legacy you have on the list of advancements taken.

Ashes
Posts: 95
Joined: July 8th, 2015, 8:59 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Ashes »

Ashes wrote:Chapter 3 again. 08 Lost.
(...)
Btw, I am trying to see if having unlimited turns in that scenario gives the player the possibility of massively levelling all units.
It is possible, but lengthy. It is difficult to avoid killing at least a Lich (one will probably kill the other). Drakes and Trolls are ok for levelling, they recruit level 1 or level 2 units, one per turn if you let them take enough villages. Bat and goblins recruit more, but lower level, which is very good when using a Foul Potion. If I have the patience of playing hundreds of turns, my Efraim will have hundreds of HP!
I'd suggest to limit this level to 150 or 200 turns.

By the way, there is a small mistake in the description of ABILITY_UNHOLY_HUNGER (abilities.cfg) which does not reflect the actual behaviour of the Foul Potion: it is written "it will heal 8 hp and its maximum hp will increase by 2" but the actual values are 10 and 3.
Last edited by Ashes on August 31st, 2015, 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Serane
Posts: 6
Joined: June 16th, 2013, 1:39 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Serane »

@Dugi
Ah, I see. Has it been like that since the beginning, since it doesn't show up in the changelogs? Also, what about Lethalia/Efraim? Are they immune to it when they're undead, or not at all?

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

@Ashes
I have changed the max turn limit to 150, I think.
Foul potion is not as cool as it may seem. When its user advances, its effect goes off together with the change to max HP. Its purpose is help units who are about to kill large amounts of enemies. Fixed the difference in numbers.

@Serane
Legacies have been like that since the time they were added.
Efraim and Lethalia are immune to temptation when they are undead. If they are not, they are not immune. This however does not apply to any version before the one I am working on because of a bug (if I remember correctly).

Malical
Posts: 2
Joined: August 30th, 2015, 11:34 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Malical »

Anyone got any tips? I'm on medium and I got stalled sometime in chapter 2 because my units kept being killed 1 or 2 a turn. I feel like it's because I didn't put enough into defense or that my tier two units were so far behind Efraim/Lethalia due to me putting a lot of experience onto them. Going to try again with more even distribution of EXP and better defenses.

I also felt like I barely got any drops in the second chapter. Is this intentional or just really [censored] luck for me?

MelficeBelmont
Posts: 3
Joined: September 1st, 2015, 11:03 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by MelficeBelmont »

I am still having issues with army of darkness ending with victory after the first turn.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

@Malical
If you are in the scenario Endless Legion, know that you don't have to defeat all those enemies. You only have to carve a path through them. If you are in another scenario, tell me which one, you are too unspecific.

@MelficeBelmont
I have not published the update with the fix yet.

dabber
Posts: 378
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Malical wrote:Anyone got any tips? I'm on medium and I got stalled sometime in chapter 2 because my units kept being killed 1 or 2 a turn. I feel like it's because I didn't put enough into defense or that my tier two units were so far behind Efraim/Lethalia due to me putting a lot of experience onto them. Going to try again with more even distribution of EXP and better defenses.
I also felt like I barely got any drops in the second chapter. Is this intentional or just really [censored] luck for me?
Except for when you can AMLA often and stack with Fencer's Study or Book of Magical Swordplay, I don't recommend spending much effort on defense. Resistances are better. But the best is equipment that provides suck.
Did you strip your army at the end of chapter 1, or did you start chapter 2 with just Efraim and Lethalia having stuff? I really should play chapter 2 starting with naked troops, but I was in the habit of stripping my limited equipment at the end of most scenarios in order to reallocate it.
When things get tough, make a point to use leadership type effects, especially Legacy of Kings and Tome of Bards volume I/II. A couple guys with maxed out Legacy of Kings, surrounded by combat troops, should be EXTREMELY effective for most of chapter 2. The later stages have some super scary enemies where that is almost required.



Dugi,
Error in chapter 9 Last Crusade. The event to give them bonus income is wrong - you left off the $ in front of side_number. Fixing that makes the scenario MUCH harder.
As I've been playing through it, I'd say it was taking me about 30 turns to have crushed the demon numbers, and another 10-15 to clean up and finish each leader. Now at turn 30 I'm facing a huge clog of enemy troops, including about one Demon Lord per turn! I have taken out 4 leaders, but I'm advancing slowly and have used multiple healing potions.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

@dabber
I have fixed it. Because totally clogged area and bottleneck usage is not exactly what I want, I have reduced the increase in income, gold and damage (halved) and increased the increase in hitpoints to counter it (five times). The demons will be slightly less numerous and slightly less damaging, but more resilient.

Ashes
Posts: 95
Joined: July 8th, 2015, 8:59 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Ashes »

dabber wrote:(...) the best is equipment that provides suck.
Suck is very useful indeed (and does not appear in the detailed description of the unit).
But suck works only for blade, pierce or impact. Leech is to be preferred if you deal fire, cold, arcane or lightning damage.
dabber wrote: When things get tough, make a point to use leadership type effects, especially Legacy of Kings and Tome of Bards volume I/II. A couple guys with maxed out Legacy of Kings, surrounded by combat troops, should be EXTREMELY effective for most of chapter 2. The later stages have some super scary enemies where that is almost required.
I played it quite differently. I had no Legacy of Kings nor Tome of Bards. But I had really strong Efraim and Lethalia.
For example, when playing Infinite Legion, I tried to sneak out Lethalia like the first time I played LotI, but it failed (embuscade was not sufficient to avoid all enemies). So she found herself alone surrounded by enemies, and they all died...
Her staff was Ashes of Dead Suns (suck 2, drain, focused) and her axe Bringer of Fragility (suck 4, and able to whirlwind). Plus Tears of the Dead (suck 2). Faerie Fire is sufficient to prevent undead to use distant attacks, and Woodland Cloak has the nice effect of reducing the chances to be hit.

dabber
Posts: 378
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Dugi wrote:@dabber
I have fixed it. Because totally clogged area and bottleneck usage is not exactly what I want, I have reduced the increase in income, gold and damage (halved) and increased the increase in hitpoints to counter it (five times). The demons will be slightly less numerous and slightly less damaging, but more resilient.
My statement should not be sufficient to make that change. For one thing, I have done other things to make the Crusade harder. For another, the shock value of seeing the bug fix immediately change the scenario is significant. I could tell that Demon Lords (the only enemy that is really countable) roughly doubled in number because the initial wave was followed by regular reinforcements (every other turn?), instead of Demon Lord recruitment being relatively rare.

That said, reducing the gold increase, but raising the hitpoint increase makes sense to me. However, I definitely disagree with halving the damage increase. This is a scenario you SHOULD lose after it iterates several times. I'm at stage 30, I have to use leadership effects almost all the time, I have be careful even with Efraim and Lethalia, and I've still saved loaded a few times. It's great!
My only possible complaint about damage is burning soul damage is huge. So are their hitpoints. Iron Mauler with 319 hps, attack 162-3. Dwarf Lord 392 hps, 143-5 battle axe, Elvish Champion 340 hps, 133-8 sword. Nothing on the map compares to Burning Soul sheer damage numbers, although things like Demon Lords have other advantages besides raw damage. Usually I manage to trap the Burning Souls with an Ancient Lich backed by guy to buff him, but when they get out, they are typically a bigger problem than anything else.


Can you look into putting something about active potion effects on the unit information screen? Such as under "Books Read and other non-Removable Items". I tried digging into the code to do it myself, but I failed.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

@dabber
You were running it for the 30th time?

The damage decrease is related to the reduction in suck I have done. Many items were removed the suck property, even more on normal difficulty and a large majority of them on hard. Furthermore, the suck values were reduced in many cases. Items that had a good suck value had other properties improved, in one case added the leech weapon special. The effectiveness of drain from drain leadership was halved.

Burning souls make so much damage because the usual multiplicative damage increase they get is applied after the increase in damage from this scenario. This could be changed somehow.

I might increase the damage of units that do fewer attacks more. I also might increase the damage multiplicatively, so that they would gain 10% more damage per iteration (this would also help the burning soul problem).

Yes, I might list potions there too.

dabber
Posts: 378
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Dugi wrote:The damage decrease is related to the reduction in suck I have done.
Oh, I did not realize that was still ongoing. That changes the whole campaign a lot.

Delicius169
Posts: 179
Joined: February 16th, 2015, 5:02 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Delicius169 »

Lately I ve been experimenting with Lich King, and with leaders.
I think, leaders should be more balanced. Current stats are:

Duke- zeal aura, push, leadership of 6lvl, healing, warlords rule
Paladin -Shield, Ilumination
Elvish warlord -Zeal aura, ability to be better leader (improves skill Leadership)
Lich king-how to be better leader (improves skill leadership)
Orcish warmonger- leadership of 4 lvl (after spending 3AMLAs), warlord rule
Goblin warbanner- leadership of 3lvl (i guess, it is written To be better leader)

Duke- it is greatest of leaders, and it is good as he is- you can get just one for whole campaing, and need a lot of experience.

Paladin- I think is fine how he is.

Elvish lord- has at least zeal aura, still I would suggest skill increasing defense ability (Elvian units are in my opinion more based on defenses, then resistances). It could increase defense by 15% (after spending 2AMLAS)/ or giving struggle to unit next to.

LIch king- is quite weak unit, his only advantage is that if you use Tome of liches, he can become unit with the biggest amount of weapons (mage-white mage- paladin- lich- lich king= mace, spear, sword, essence of magic, axe, staff), but still weaker than Lich. I would suggest giving him skill like Murderlust aura, aura of leeches (every unit get leech to their attack), or aura of hunger.
If you dont make one in a way I created via Tome of Lich, he s not really useful unit, and as a leader? worthless.

Ocish Warmonger- he isnt really great leader, but he is awesome in fight (mayhem), so he is good as he is.

Goblin Warbanner- fine as he is.

-----------------------------------------
I dont have an account on wesnoth wikipedia, so I will show off my unit here (and maybe one of you could copy it into wiki?)

LIch king Sec Sec Sec (name)- Evil healer
35-6 meele, blade
22-4 ice wave
16-4 shadow wave
30-4 doom, meele, blade

resistance: 58/61/16/60/90/45
Items:
Books: Book of courage, Magical swordplay, How to be an overlord (hasnt finished reading yet)
Blackened cloak, intoxicator (boots), Mask of insanity, Mystic armour of Carparitia, dark gloves of destruction, Demon core (amulet), sparkling ring
Weapons: 2x Dominion (Mace, Essence of magic), Deathwhirl (sword), Staff of Crelanu, Corpsegrinder (spear, gives Eviscreation), Morrigans Slasher (axe, gives murderlust)

He is the one, who stands in front line, he is the most usefull healer I have. He can kill almost every unit in one round (thanks to mask of insanity), he cant be affected by temptation, he weakens strong leaders with doom attack.
Of course, he could be stronger, I was too lazy to try more unit to get Legacy of kings/ sorrow/ dark dragon, so I got just legacy of Titans. Also I dint get Mace with Hate speech skill.

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