Legend of the Invincibles

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Elvish Nightprowler
3
12%
Elvish Overlord
0
No votes
Elvish Seer
5
20%
Elvish Warlord
0
No votes
Exterminator
3
12%
Forester
0
No votes
Goblin Ravager
0
No votes
Goblin Warbanner
0
No votes
Grim Knight
0
No votes
Faerie Incarnation
5
20%
Infernal Knight
1
4%
Lich King
3
12%
Lunatic Knight
3
12%
Monstrosity
0
No votes
Orcish Nightblade
0
No votes
Orcish Strafer
1
4%
Pilum Master
0
No votes
Orcish Warmonger
1
4%
Phantom
0
No votes
Predator
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 25

dabber
Posts: 378
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Dugi,
I mentioned I always diff'd your updates with my own version in order to keep a few changes, and you asked what I had changed. Here are a couple sets. The first one is really just relabeling AMLAs on units to be more precise, although it includes a couple minor bug fixes previously mentioned here. I think it should be in the official version.

The second is my latest version of demons, which I have posted about here previously. I think these demons are better in that you don't hit a godly powerful demon because of traits stacking into a super attack (see cold+chilling). You also don't get scary Conviction 25 on a level 5 demon (although maybe you should?). The biggest flaw is that "distant attack" is by far the most dangerous normal demon trait. The second biggest flaw is maybe they should be harder in general, as perhaps I undid too much of the difficulty raising you did recently.
Attachments
dabber demon changes.zip
(13.97 KiB) Downloaded 58 times
dabber unit comment changes.zip
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Last edited by dabber on July 27th, 2015, 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Delicius169
Posts: 179
Joined: February 16th, 2015, 5:02 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Delicius169 »

I am sorry for confusing Nimble with Skirmirsher. I have a half of the game in czech (the thinks that are translated in official version), and half in english.
Truth is that I think, that I dint want to make legacy too strong, and giving them normal hit and run ability is too strong. I can imagine Dwarvish technocrat with Thundering revenge and with skirmisher ability running in midle of the enemy army shooting and then running back to rest of my soldiers.
Neutral alingment was meant as disadvantage. (and Anarchist cant be lawfull, and I think about Chaotic alingment as something to do with black magic...even though when I think about it, there are bandit units... It could be probably Guerilla legacy (First I though about civil war in Spain, about Hemingway, anarchists, then about Bakunin- who is some kind of Father of anarchist, and I think he is fat because photos of him are just from times he is old, there was a nice article about him on website of czech anarchist federation, but since police canceled their web it isnt available...), but I didnt like this name because there is already a weapon Guerilla...)
Also I though about this legacy as based on movement. It can be great skill for slow unit - dwarfs, or unit with helmet False paradise (-5MP).
It is possible that Lesser Hit and run wit just 1/4 of MP is too weak, maybe 1/3?

So maybe:

1. AMla: +1MP, +1 ranged damage
2. Amla: +1 Mp +1 ranged damage
3. Amla: +1 MP, +1 ranged damage
4.Amla: Skirmisher
5. Amla: Lesser hit and run (1/3 of MP after attack), or normal Hit and Run.




I use almost every legacy. Just on legacy of exil I dont use the last AMLA, which gives negative leadership. There is a great skill Zeal, which doubles resistances in attack. And dragon legacies I use only for resistances. And of course legacy of exil is cool for unit with Hit and run like Lancer or Gryphon rider.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

@dabber
Can you please send me diffs next time? Doing it this way means more work for both of us. I don't want to replace files because I am not certain which ones I have edited since the last upload and which ones I haven't and I have to create a diff anyway and apply it as patches. If there were larger conflicts, I would see pretty well what have you done in diffs rather than in the files themselves.

Anyway, I have performed almost all of these changes. For the case of the distant attack, I have replaced it with a the zeal ability that doubles resistances when attacking, so the effect the trait has means more resistances when attacking and more resistances when defending.

Btw, there were two files, Reaper.cfg and Seer.cfg that contained no changes.

@Delicius169
How about simply call it Legacy of the Free?

I prefer not naming things after whatever from modern era unless they would perfectly fit into the old past (such as Alastair Crowley the warlock or Hu Wanlin the false healer). The philosophy of anarchism and the modern extreme left freedom fighters are something that did not exist in medieval times.

I think that the first three advantages are somewhat boring, how about replacing the second +1 ranged damage with something that increases terrain defences?

Konrad2
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Konrad2 »

"Shadow Empire" -> missing space in scenario objectives: "...carried over to the next scenario.Note: ..."

Delicius169
Posts: 179
Joined: February 16th, 2015, 5:02 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Delicius169 »

Ok Legacy of the free(dom). No problemo :-)
If you want to change it, no problem. Terain defense is always nice... or Mockery?
Last edited by Delicius169 on July 27th, 2015, 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Derth
Posts: 6
Joined: July 26th, 2015, 10:11 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Derth »

Dugi wrote:As it has been told, the game considers all undead as male. Liches born from female necromancers are female, that is the only exception. It is indeed true that male skeletons look different from female skeletons, but only experts can do that, accessories, face and chest shape, the usual way to determine gender, is irrelevant. When it comes to voice, I imagine skeletons speaking with a guttural voice, such as this one, that makes the gender unidentifiable. In that case, it is also quite irrelevant if the skeleton is male or female. Because gay people have no issues with hormones, gender preference is a matter of mind, not body, so undead who cannot remember their past life should be quite sexless. And with a scary appearance and scary voice, most people would identify them as male and they might be themselves unaware of their gender.
Or we could just say that female skeletons and other undead are just not sent out into battle to combat, either because male skeletons have typically harder bones or because (mostly male) necromancers have developed a weird affection towards the undead.
I would agree with this, but there are a few issues with that argument. If it's a matter of needing to go out of your way to add female undead, I completely accept that as a legitimate reason to not do so. Needing to make a variant of every single undead type wouldn't be worthwhile, and I think everyone would prefer it if you continued making the campaigns more awesome instead.

That said, here are my objections: We see female units raised as undead fairly often, including as walking corpses. Lesser undead don't, to my knowledge, speak at all. Liches and wraiths are the exceptions, as well as a few other higher level undead. Gender preference has been proven over and over again to be a matter of differences in the brain and hormones, but that doesn't matter when dealing with something that is literally brainless and has no functional organs, as you said. The temptation ability, which is the root of this argument, is based on the gender of the unit that has it. Given that a unit can have Temptation regardless of physical appearance, it seems odd that it would default to male for something that was a female before death, especially given that higher level undead are sometimes described as having memories of life.

dabber
Posts: 378
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Dugi wrote:Can you please send me diffs next time?
I've never sent anyone a diff before, so I'm not entirely sure what you mean. I've attached two examples of what I can easily produce, using options I've only just discovered.
Dugi wrote:Btw, there were two files, Reaper.cfg and Seer.cfg that contained no changes.
I think you already made those changes, but the official download hasn't changed since then.
Attachments
diff_demons_race.txt
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diff_Seer_Seer.txt
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

@Konrad2
What a perfectionist you are... Corrected.

@Delicius169
Mockery could be there too. So guys, what do you say about:
Legacy of the Free:
1. +1 MP, mockery
2. +1 MP, +1 ranged damage
3. +1 MP, -5% chance to get hit
4. skirmisher
5. lesser hit and run

@Derth
If you are so upset about it, I can make some undead female (it would not have any effect on appearance) so that temptation would differ (maybe the temptation colouration could depend on gender).

@dabber
Yeah, that's it. Just that it's usually named blablablah.diff and not dif_blahblahblah.txt, but that's unimportant.
Yes, I had made those changes already.

Konrad2
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Konrad2 »

Dugi wrote:@Konrad2
What a perfectionist you are... Corrected.
Thank you :lol:

Whiskeyjack
Posts: 454
Joined: February 7th, 2015, 1:27 am
Location: Germany

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Whiskeyjack »

Dugi wrote:@Whiskeyjack
I don't get that joke with Stannis, have you fixed a grammar error in that edit or what?
Exactly, I fixed The Grammar Error (less instead of fewer). That´s the one he does at least twice in the show.
Under blood-red skies - an old man sits -
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.

dabber
Posts: 378
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Dugi wrote:Mockery could be there too. So guys, what do you say about:
Legacy of the Free:
1. +1 MP, mockery
2. +1 MP, +1 ranged damage
3. +1 MP, -5% chance to get hit
4. skirmisher
5. lesser hit and run
Is there a point in coding a lesser hit-and-run? At move/4, you need move 8 to be better than penetrate. This legacy would probably hit move 12, so run away 3. Why not just go to real hit-and-run? That would sure make it attractive to me.
I'm not sure about including Skirmisher, just because Skirmisher is really really useful. More properly, I'm not sure about including both Skirmisher and a significant hit-and-run. You can get Skirmisher from a dropped item and a crafted armour, but hit-and-run can only come from a crafted weapon, so putting hit-and-run in the legacy is a lot more valuable.

Legacy of the Free:
1. +1 MP, mockery
2. +1 MP, +1 ranged damage x2
3. -2% chance to get hit, +1 ranged damage x3
4. Penetrate
5. Ranged struggle (I really like Struggle, so maybe this a bad idea, but I have not been impressed with mockery and this would help)
6. remove Penetrate, add full Hit and Run

Hmmm, maybe it really does need Skirmisher.
1. +1 MP, mockery
2. +1 MP, +1 ranged damage x3
3. Penetrate
4a. melee Struggle
4b. ranged Struggle
5. Skirmish
6. remove Penetrate, add full Hit and Run

Delicius169
Posts: 179
Joined: February 16th, 2015, 5:02 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Delicius169 »

Normal unit when created has about 6 Movement points. After these AMLAs 9, and of course every unit can take AMLA on movement points (+3 I think), so you can get 12 MP on almost every unit without big problems. Therefore with Lesser hit and run (1/3 of MP). you will get 3-4 MP. You have enough MP to hide your unit behind your tank units, but still enough MP to make a little attacks.
I didnt want to make this Legacy too strong, I didnt want to make army that can Hit and completly run away without any danger of counterattack (there is a weapon Guerilla which allows it, but it doesnt increase damage or strikes of weapon really much), this would be somehow better version of penetrate.
The reason of this Legacy is to give new possibility how to play, not to make unbeatable (unreachable) unit.

Also, I noticed, that Elvish Seer cannot wear Otherworldy essence weapon. Is it meant to be like that? (I think Seer doesnt need weapon to be awesome, but I have same feeling for Ancient Lich)

I am just playing Arctic wastelands (the scenario I really like), and I would like to say, that I like improvement of Black souls, but still I would like to make them more dangerous. They couldnt hurt me really bad and I couldnt hurt them really bad (but then Efraim runned away, got stronger and killed them all.)
So I would like to suggerst little improvement of Lethargy skill on High dificulty. Now it temporaly decrease my attack by 2. It could decrease temporaly also resistances (by 2 points a hit).

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

I am also quite inclined to put there the weaker version of hit and run, full hit and run is quite strong, especially in combination with such a strong unit. I think I'll code a slightly edited version of dabber's variant 2, but I am not sure if that skirmisher would not be too strong.

@Delicius169
I have found the cause why she can't use them and fixed it. Wait for the next version and it'll work.

Lethargy might remove more damage on hard, but I would prefer not to lower the resistances. Units with a high chance to be hit and high resistances are affected more and if their resistances were reduced in the process too, it would have an even greater effect on them.

Limpun
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Limpun »

Dugi wrote: @Limpun
The unattackable enemies can be killed with whirlwind, explosive damage, cleave and other tricks, they are just more tricky to kill than intended. The issue with that scenario with the siren has been fixed (siren, not Sirenia, Sirenia is a rock band from USA). If you think that you still can't beat it with the tricks I told you about, tell me, I will give you a quick fix file.
These are attacks that I have used so far. But they require that there be a next enemy to be eliminated ... and that protection against these attacks is lower in having "distant-atack" in which you attack.
In this scenario the demons that come with that feature, besides being many, are more protected than others ... and are level 7. indirect attacks all I've gotten is a little damage. On the other hand, I can not just ignore them because the disaster that would cause me would be important. In addition, the stage starts with little money ... or what is the same, with few troops; therefore they must be chosen and any damage would be difficult to bear.

As for that scenario of the merfolk, the only interest he had in him was because he was a merchant. Moreover forgive my English: is the google translator.
Cheers

dabber
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Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Dugi wrote:I am also quite inclined to put there the weaker version of hit and run, full hit and run is quite strong, especially in combination with such a strong unit. I think I'll code a slightly edited version of dabber's variant 2, but I am not sure if that skirmisher would not be too strong.
Can you easily make a lesser version of skirmisher that makes each hex adjacent to an enemy cost an extra movement point? That would still be super useful without being so powerful.

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