Legend of the Invincibles

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Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Elvish Nightprowler
6
13%
Elvish Overlord
0
No votes
Elvish Seer
8
17%
Elvish Warlord
2
4%
Exterminator
5
11%
Forester
1
2%
Goblin Ravager
0
No votes
Goblin Warbanner
0
No votes
Grim Knight
0
No votes
Faerie Incarnation
9
19%
Infernal Knight
2
4%
Lich King
3
6%
Lunatic Knight
5
11%
Monstrosity
0
No votes
Orcish Nightblade
0
No votes
Orcish Strafer
2
4%
Pilum Master
1
2%
Orcish Warmonger
2
4%
Phantom
0
No votes
Predator
1
2%
 
Total votes: 47

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Sorry for the delay, I was reading it but I was fixing it too slowly to catch up with the new and new replies. Thanks for all the feedback and help with replying. Also, my internet connection is currently terrible.
Konrad2 wrote:why does Efraim curse in german when he dies? (second scenario)
Because wesnoth is not adult only and swearwords have to be unfinished or told in foreign languages ;)
Konrad2 wrote:the orcish warlord ( SW) in "Paradise Lost" is being killed to fast, because he ventures out of his keep and thus cant recruit for all his money (he only spends 150 gold out of 300) -> difficulty hard
Fixed, his is gonna be almost unable to walk.
Konrad2 wrote:why is in "The Assasination" on 21,1 an item (the javelineer standing there still drops an item)? and could there be some hint that the item droprate per enemy in that scenario is 100%?
First question - because I placed it there. I decided that it's a good place to put an item. Second question - why should be?
Konrad2 wrote: i am able to recruit in "Shatter the Defilers" and im not sure if that is intended
Intended.
Konrad2 wrote:"antisocial" doesnt work on units who are standing next to units with leadership abilities
It's a decision of wesnoth developers to make negative leadership get overriden by positive one.
Konrad2 wrote:...when I kill Glub all orcish leaders get increased income (if they have not been attacked yet), except the orcs on side 5 who retain their income of 2 gold per turn (that might be intended because he has more villages but im not sure)...
Looks like you guessed the reason, but I cannot confirm or reject if it was the reason or not, I can't remember things I have done five years ago in such detail :doh:
Konrad2 wrote:EDIT 6: knockback didnt work on a leader. no idea why.
Sometimes, the game finds no suitable place to place a unit knocked back. To prevent it from screwing the game, nothing happens instead of the default behaviour that removes the unit from the game.
Konrad2 wrote:in the story for "Where the Sun Does not Shine" it is explained that Lethalias ability to fly posed a great threat. my problem is, I didnt level her up to a slyph, she still is an enchantress and so she cant fly
Made the line more vague to conceal it.
Konrad2 wrote:it is possible to force the bats to spawn in the walls -> easier to turn them undead (that "bug" has been present since the first time i played that map, just forgot to report it until now)
From my newest edit, it won't spawn if something is jamming the spawn hex.
Konrad2 wrote:why is the orcish warlord allied with me?
Because he is not going to kill you.
Konrad2 wrote:when i find Connor, the Scenario Objectives change into "defeat the Source of..." but when I want to look at the onjectives again the victory objectives are "Defeat Plutonius"
Fixed.
Konrad2 wrote:when Connor and his crew fall down, on 14,7 appears unreasonably a "rubble" tile
It was supposed to appear on 14,17, where it kills the unlucky skeleton.
Konrad2 wrote:got a bug where my unit when it is killed turns into a allied Soulless
Wasn't easy to find this one, but I was successful after a long period of pondering. In a previous scenario, he was attacked by a unit with infect, that would have caused it to become a Soulless after dying from its poison. However, when the scenario ended, the poison was removed but the infection was not. He was not cured from it and when he died, he became a soulless at the same side as the enemy who infected him, but that side was an allied side in that scenario. The bug was in failing to remove infection when ending the scenario.
dabber wrote:Dugi, Legacy of the Freezing North is coded slightly wrong - the bonus damage applies to "spiritual attack" instead of "iceform" (amla.cfg line 3735)
Fixed.
dabber wrote:I also think my code is better than the web version of whirlwind in a variety of ways. Hopefully you find it useful.
Thanks. I find it useful.
dabber wrote:If you like this, I will work on fixing explosive leech as well, and I'll examine into Drain/Leech with Parry.
Go on if you want. I don't mind if other people make changes like this in this project, after all it's what is open source about.
Limpun wrote:There are demons units are completely unassailable. They are those that have their long-range attacks. Okay you can not attack them during his turn to attack, but when I attacked I should be able to. Thus, they are indestructible units. It is impossible to play well.
It has been fixed and will be uploaded with the new version.
Delicius169 wrote:Legacy of Scouts/assasins/ cowards (best would be to call it by some mytological monster, Hejkal/Hýkal? )
I think that it's too much local folklore. But as I read through your proposal, I think that it might be a feasible thing. Other names that might fit:
Legacy of Escapist
Legacy of the Hunted
Legacy of Swashbucklers
Experienced Legacy
Please go on and suggest a more precise advancement line.
Delicius169 wrote:I think that rebalancion of unit was forgoten. What unit should be now discused?
We finished with undead. I have added some undead improving items and the spiritual essence, it should be taken into consideration.
Delicius169 wrote:I am not sure about armor for undead with Cancer, even my Lich is poisoned, and if he isnt with healer, he loses 8hp a turn. And he cannot be healed by my Faerie.
Same for my Elvish overlord with Legacy of undead.
Fixed that. When considering the balance of undead, please assume that Cancer does not affect them.
Sire wrote:Essentially, if a player controls only one unit and it is killed, that player is defeated and promptly kicked out of the game despite the revive at the end of each round. However, while the player is gone, its "spot" is not, and the game locks up on that player's turn.
I am using the workaround gfgtdf suggested, I hope that it will work. The next version should fix it if he's right.
gfgtdf wrote:A workaround is not to use victory_when_enemies_defeated=no in multiplayer games and to use defeat_condition=never for the enemy side instead so that it won't be defeated.
A big thanks, I would have never figured out this one.
Kymille wrote:I'm not sure if there is a bug, but I just played Tunnels of Cruelty, and I didn't understand what happened.
Fixed it, I thought I had fixed it before but I had not. Now even if she attacks something, she will never get hit.

I hope that nobody was forgotten in my reply.

Konrad2
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Konrad2 »

Dugi wrote:
Konrad2 wrote:why is in "The Assasination" on 21,1 an item (the javelineer standing there still drops an item)? and could there be some hint that the item droprate per enemy in that scenario is 100%?
First question - because I placed it there. I decided that it's a good place to put an item. Second question - why should be?
Konrad2 wrote:why is the orcish warlord allied with me?
Because he is not going to kill you.
regarding the info: because thats a reason to try and kill as many as possible instead of killing Redain in one turn for the early finish bonus

regarding the orcish warlord, well maybe i want to kill him?
Dugi wrote:I hope that nobody was forgotten in my reply.
you forgot from me:
Konrad2 wrote:"Ruins of Lost Empires" (though it was only one Empire but whatever :D)
when I kill Glub and only side 5 gets the gold the orcs normally get when attacked while all other leaders who were not attacked dont get any gold -> thats normally only side 7 but that means i could pretty much ignore side 7 until i dealt with all other enemies
Konrad2 wrote:EDIT 4: shroud doesnt update when i find the elves in "Ruins of Lost Empires"
Konrad2 wrote:could the ability "temptation" be disabled for undead units when they are recruited by AI? because it doesnt work anyway
i mean that undead are sexless ergo they cant "tempt" anyone not to attack them -> temptation a senseless ability on undead

EDIT: how do you explain in "Twilight" that the frozen undead dont attack the animals?

Delicius169
Posts: 179
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Delicius169 »

Scenario: Axadria (for Efraim)
Please lower my allies income. I am playing on hard and he is strong enough to defeat enemy himself. Also, it would be good if you would increase enemy leader´s damage, or make his Hit and run ability like it used to be (all movement points after attack), now he usually stays at battlefield unable to get back to his castle.

dabber
Posts: 378
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Konrad2 wrote:i mean that undead are sexless ergo they cant "tempt" anyone not to attack them -> temptation a senseless ability on undead
While I admit I cannot cite something in literature offhand, I feel like the idea of a freaky undead that deceives people into believing it is a beautiful woman is well established. Typically the "real" thing is extremely gross, not just a skeleton, but most people think it looks beautiful and alluring.

Konrad2
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Konrad2 »

dabber wrote:
Konrad2 wrote:i mean that undead are sexless ergo they cant "tempt" anyone not to attack them -> temptation a senseless ability on undead
While I admit I cannot cite something in literature offhand, I feel like the idea of a freaky undead that deceives people into believing it is a beautiful woman is well established. Typically the "real" thing is extremely gross, not just a skeleton, but most people think it looks beautiful and alluring.
that works for me as explanation :)

EDIT: why exactly are the arrows of the frozen undead dealing arcane dmg?

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Konrad2 wrote:regarding the info: because thats a reason to try and kill as many as possible instead of killing Redain in one turn for the early finish bonus
Okay, I have reduced the drop chance. Efraim was not supposed to pillage the castle.
Konrad2 wrote:regarding the orcish warlord, well maybe i want to kill him?
You can't reach him anyway. I did not want the players to try.
Konrad2 wrote:when I kill Glub and only side 5 gets the gold the orcs normally get when attacked while all other leaders who were not attacked dont get any gold -> thats normally only side 7 but that means i could pretty much ignore side 7 until i dealt with all other enemies
They do not get gold, but they get a decent income, will capture villages and increase it even more. If all of them recruited a load of soldiers in a few turns, it might become hard to handle.
Konrad2 wrote:shroud doesnt update when i find the elves in "Ruins of Lost Empires"
Fixed.
Konrad2 wrote:i mean that undead are sexless ergo they cant "tempt" anyone not to attack them -> temptation a senseless ability on undead
Why? Undead are considered always male and as far as I know, women are not as attracted by pretty faces as men. Talks matter more. So suppose that the undead gives very good poetic romantic talks that are combined with black magic (that makes them sound like verses from a great poet like Charles Baudelaire) and maybe some hallucinations.
Konrad2 wrote:how do you explain in "Twilight" that the frozen undead dont attack the animals?
Because they are driven by the warlocks from the next scenario and know who is their enemy.
Delicius169 wrote:Please lower my allies income. I am playing on hard and he is strong enough to defeat enemy himself. Also, it would be good if you would increase enemy leader´s damage, or make his Hit and run ability like it used to be (all movement points after attack), now he usually stays at battlefield unable to get back to his castle.
Okay.

Konrad2
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Konrad2 »

Dugi wrote:
Konrad2 wrote:regarding the orcish warlord, well maybe i want to kill him?
You can't reach him anyway. I did not want the players to try.
the undead bats can reach and could theoretically kill him

and why does the ranged attack of the ice undead in "Twilight" deal arcane dmg?

EDIT: the enemy necromancers in the next sceanrio ask why they dont attack the Valley of Cold Harmony which means for me that they didnt attack it -> they are not responsible for the attack of ice undeads
so pls add some lines that makes it clear that they are resposible, maybe something like discussing with Zorox if the undead destroyed the Valley of Cold harmony yet

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

the undead bats can reach and could theoretically kill him
That's why he's unnattackable and you won't delay yourself trying.
and why does the ranged attack of the ice undead in "Twilight" deal arcane dmg?
I thought that piercing damage would make it easy when you can recruit a lot of skeletons.
so pls add some lines that makes it clear that they are resposible, maybe something like discussing with Zorox if the undead destroyed the Valley of Cold harmony yet
Okay, I added an explanation that they think that a proper invasion is more useful than some boring black magic.

Derth
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Derth »

Dugi wrote:
Konrad2 wrote:i mean that undead are sexless ergo they cant "tempt" anyone not to attack them -> temptation a senseless ability on undead
Why? Undead are considered always male and as far as I know, women are not as attracted by pretty faces as men. Talks matter more. So suppose that the undead gives very good poetic romantic talks that are combined with black magic (that makes them sound like verses from a great poet like Charles Baudelaire) and maybe some hallucinations.
Actually, there's no reason for the undead to be considered male. Lethalia didn't suddenly become a guy when she became a lich, and female necromancers have been shown to become liches as well. Also, women are about as vulnerable as men when it comes to a pretty face. Plus, a pretty face being able to stop someone from attacking, especially if that individual is a married demigod of immense power or a raging berserker, is most likely a supernatural ability. So temptation makes as much sense on the undead as anyone else, and there's no reason to consider the undead as all being one gender unless that gender is "sexless".

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firefox
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by firefox »

but even if you don't consider the undead male, the game sets their gender to male, if they are not specified as female.
so by default, all undead with the charm ability will only affect female units.

in this case the female gender should be added to the undead race, but then we need something to see the difference between male and female undead.
the problem is that undead don't have names. so a possible solution would be to give the female skeletons "skeleton lady" as their unit name.
may the source be with you
=(^.^)= nyan~

Delicius169
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Delicius169 »

There is not many undead units with trait Temptation. I would leave it alone. It is not really serious thing.
Acording to legacy, I would call it
Legacy of Bakunin (according to one Anarchist heroe, who organized many revolution, took part in one, or two (on barikades), was sentenced to death in many countries (Russi, Habsburk monarchy, Germany). was in first Internacional, but after fight with Marx left,... and had a cool beard. )
1.Amla: makes unit alignment Neutral +1MP
2.Amla: +1MP, +1 range damange
3.Amla: +1MP, +1 range damage
4. Amla: + nimble
5. Amla: Lesser hit and run (after attack you get 1/4 of all Movement points back)

Question: Did you make demons weaker? Recently? Because I am playing again on high difficulty, I am in 7.chapter and no big problems yet. (I played first 3 scenario of 6.chapter on easy, I was afraid of demons so much...)

Whiskeyjack
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Whiskeyjack »

Playing on easy means less enemies which equals less experience gained for your units, which results in fewer high level units. In this campaign this point is probably amplified by having less items so I guess it could be possible, that your army is just way better equipped, no? I can only speculate at this point as I have always played at medium difficulty, but the thought crossed my mind a couple of times while playing.

Edit: Did a true Stannis on this one.
Under blood-red skies - an old man sits -
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.

Limpun
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Limpun »

Dugi wrote:
Limpun wrote:There are demons units are completely unassailable. They are those that have their long-range attacks. Okay you can not attack them during his turn to attack, but when I attacked I should be able to. Thus, they are indestructible units. It is impossible to play well.
It has been fixed and will be uploaded with the new version.
It will be long before the new version be available? I've been bogged down on scenario "The desert". I just have not covered a quarter of the scenario and already have 4 demons "distant-atack"; two of them are together and two are taking steps to prevent me from advancing on scenario. In short: I can not keep playing; and I wish I could because the campaign is exciting.
Now I remember, in Lotl1, on scenario at the merchant (the name I do not remember but it's a lake with Sirenia in which you have to fight with ghosts), after finishing the second round gave me the victory. I could not play. Although I guess since they have told you.
Cheers

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Derth wrote: Lethalia didn't suddenly become a guy when she became a lich, and female necromancers have been shown to become liches as well.
As it has been told, the game considers all undead as male. Liches born from female necromancers are female, that is the only exception. It is indeed true that male skeletons look different from female skeletons, but only experts can do that, accessories, face and chest shape, the usual way to determine gender, is irrelevant. When it comes to voice, I imagine skeletons speaking with a guttural voice, such as this one, that makes the gender unidentifiable. In that case, it is also quite irrelevant if the skeleton is male or female. Because gay people have no issues with hormones, gender preference is a matter of mind, not body, so undead who cannot remember their past life should be quite sexless. And with a scary appearance and scary voice, most people would identify them as male and they might be themselves unaware of their gender.
Or we could just say that female skeletons and other undead are just not sent out into battle to combat, either because male skeletons have typically harder bones or because (mostly male) necromancers have developed a weird affection towards the undead.

@Delicius169
I don't think that Bakunin is the right person to call this legacy after. He lived after medieval times when no more legends were told, he was quite fat and did not look like a fugitive, I don't find his beard badass and he was known also for hate speech against the Jews (not only that it's currently quite a forbidden topic, I have no ill thought against Jews except for a few individuals). The only of his ideas I agree with is atheism.

I rather agree with the specific advancements, but I think that the +1 ranged damage might be worth replacing with reduced chance to get hit or something.

@Whiskeyjack
I don't get that joke with Stannis, have you fixed a grammar error in that edit or what?

On easy, you do get less items, but they are more powerful. You do get more experience, but after reaching the maximum level, the experience needed to get an AMLA and all following AMLAs is increased. So you get fewer units of intermediate strength, but the number of enemies is equivalent, you have more powerful items and you still have the leaders who are quite a significant force.

@Limpun
The unattackable enemies can be killed with whirlwind, explosive damage, cleave and other tricks, they are just more tricky to kill than intended. The issue with that scenario with the siren has been fixed (siren, not Sirenia, Sirenia is a rock band from USA). If you think that you still can't beat it with the tricks I told you about, tell me, I will give you a quick fix file.

dabber
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Delicius169 wrote:1.Amla: makes unit alignment Neutral +1MP
2.Amla: +1MP, +1 range damange
3.Amla: +1MP, +1 range damage
4. Amla: + nimble
5. Amla: Lesser hit and run (after attack you get 1/4 of all Movement points back)
To me, the only thing that would that set of powers worthwhile for a legacy would be full hit-and-run, and I don't think that would be enough. An extra +1 damage is very weak compared to other legacies, reduced chance to be hit is worth very little especially in part 2 (demons), and getting good movement is pretty easy.
Neutral alignment would be absolutely a disadvantage for units that have illuminate/darkness, and arguably is a disadvantage for any unit because of illumination/darkness from friends or equipment. I operate a tight group of lawful units, including two Celestial Messengers, that always have bonus damage from lawful alignment.
Skirmish, Struggle, Horrid, Penetrate and Hit-and-Run are awesome abilities, but I think the legacy would have to include a few of those along with bonus movement to be worthwhile.

At the moment, I use pretty much only Legacy of Kings, Legacy of Sorrow, and Dark Dragon Legacy. I have one guy in use with Legacy of Fire, but he's an Ancient Lich that liked the fire resistance. Once I have a few serious units to help out the leaders, I usually get picky about legacies, dropping troops with legacies that don't fit them.

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