Legend of the Invincibles

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Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Prophet
18
19%
Reaper
9
9%
Scythemaster
4
4%
Shadowalker
6
6%
Shadow Prince
11
11%
Siege Troll
4
4%
Sky Goblin
2
2%
Snow Hunter
12
13%
Soul Shooter
3
3%
Swordmaster
13
14%
Troll Boulderlobber
1
1%
Warlock
7
7%
Werewolf Rider
3
3%
Zombie Rider
3
3%
 
Total votes: 96

Spirit_of_Currents
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Spirit_of_Currents »

What I think: if new maximum suck is remarkably (over 50%) lower, it should be minimum as well.
There are very much electrical currents in my brain.
If I was a mainline unit, I would be a strong, resilient Inferno Drake.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

fdsfsfdsjkljkl wrote: My only modifications were in lines 2661 - 3032.
I'll add it. Wait, I have found an issue there. The strings were not marked as translatable. I have fixed that issue. A German translation is being finished, I don't want to make something untranslatable.
fdsfsfdsjkljkl wrote:Let me know if there are any other parts of the codebase you're thinking of looking at or reworking, since I really enjoyed tweaking this one.
Depends on what are you willing to do. I can think of more things, some are relatively easy, one is uber hard. If you picked that uber hard, I would explain you everything I you'll need, of course. How open are you to challenges?
fdsfsfdsjkljkl wrote:Side note: have you considered putting LotI on Github?
Yes. But I am the only person working on it, I merge all contributions manually, there aren't many of them. If you were doing many contributions, I might reconsider it, of course.
Spirit_of_Currents wrote:What I think: if new maximum suck is remarkably (over 50%) lower, it should be minimum as well.
I don't quite understand what did you mean with this. The minimum for suck is 1, no?
fdsfsfdsjkljkl
Posts: 14
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by fdsfsfdsjkljkl »

Dugi wrote:
fdsfsfdsjkljkl wrote: My only modifications were in lines 2661 - 3032.
I'll add it. Wait, I have found an issue there. The strings were not marked as translatable. I have fixed that issue. A German translation is being finished, I don't want to make something untranslatable.
Ah, thanks for catching that then! I'm not too familiar with Wesnoth's rules for translation.
Dugi wrote:Depends on what are you willing to do. I can think of more things, some are relatively easy, one is uber hard. If you picked that uber hard, I would explain you everything I you'll need, of course. How open are you to challenges?
I'm always open to a challenge! What's the uber hard problem you're looking at?
Dugi wrote:Yes. But I am the only person working on it, I merge all contributions manually, there aren't many of them. If you were doing many contributions, I might reconsider it, of course.
Got it -- makes sense.
noimbecile
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by noimbecile »

I was looking at the WML elements and came across this: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Preprocessorref ... ive_.7B.7D

This got me thinking, that the abilities and items could be created as individual files in utils/abilities/ and utils/items/ and then included with the directory inclusion directive. This is a very preliminary thought. I'll look into the code in more detail and put my findings here when I have something more concrete(or someone else beats me to the punch :) )
One Add-on to rule them all, and in the Darkness bind them.

LOTI: Played version 2.1.16 and 3.1.13.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Unrelated note: The new version will have one new legacy, called Legacy of the Freezing North.
____________________
fdsfsfdsjkljkl wrote:Ah, thanks for catching that then! I'm not too familiar with Wesnoth's rules for translation.
You have to write this at the beginning of any lua chunk:

Code: Select all

-- #textdomain "wesnoth-loti"
_ = wesnoth.textdomain "wesnoth-loti"
And add an underscore before the first quotation mark of each string that is to be translated. If it gives an error that it expected string and got userdata, call the function tostring() on it first.
fdsfsfdsjkljkl wrote:I'm always open to a challenge! What's the uber hard problem you're looking at?
Great. The problem is the weird advancement system used by this campaign. I think that there is no good solution for wesnoth 1.12, but 1.13 adds a new possibility to solve the issue.

The basic problem is that units with many advancements available bloat save files (they can grow even 50 megabytes large, needing a relatively long time to autosave) and cause FPS drops. If you want to see it, open a save file's insides and add DISABLE_AMLA_WORKAROUND to the defines line at the beginning. I am using a trick to overcome it, but it's not a very good solution. There are two unit types for every unit, one of them has only one AMLA available and the other one has all the AMLAs. You play all the time with the one with just one AMLA, but when it's about to advance in your turn, the unit type changes, it advances as the second unit type and then reverts back. However, it has many drawbacks. The advancement window opens before the unit advances. The advancement can be activated only with unstore_unit, but it also fires all advancement events anew. And the greatest problem is that unstore_unit discards all changes to the AMLA list the unit has on versions before 1.13.
the change's description in the 1.13.0 changelog:
So the thing I would really like is if it could be rewritten to efficiently use the 1.13 functionality. When the unit is about to advance, on 1.13 it can simply be added all its advancements and unstored. I think that it's better to keep all the advancements in a unit_type, because that way, it's all stored outside of save files and isn't accessed much, but the units holding it don't have to be based on the original unit, can be just a typical dummy unit.

If I haven't explained myself clearly enough, feel free to ask.
noimbecile wrote:This got me thinking, that the abilities and items could be created as individual files in utils/abilities/ and utils/items/ and then included with the directory inclusion directive.
Yes, they could, but it's not something I want. It's annoying to work with many files, the computer needs more time to read it and working with a hundred files can be annoying, something like Ctrl+F becomes far harder to use. The developers were even planning to merge the sprites into bigger pictures to be cropped during the game to reduce the problems with large number of files, but the project was abandoned,
Spirit_of_Currents
Posts: 88
Joined: April 26th, 2014, 4:44 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Spirit_of_Currents »

Dugi wrote:
Spirit_of_Currents wrote:What I think: if new maximum suck is remarkably (over 50%) lower, it should be minimum as well.
I don't quite understand what did you mean with this. The minimum for suck is 1, no?
You are right. I was talking about the future. I saw discussion about nerfing suck and I decided to tell my opinion. Currently the minimum suck is 1 and the maximum suck is 100% of total damage done by the sucker. I meant that if maximum suck will be less than 50% of total damage, the minimum suck should then be the same as the maximum suck.
There are very much electrical currents in my brain.
If I was a mainline unit, I would be a strong, resilient Inferno Drake.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

What :augh: ? I can't understand that. How can be minimum suck the same as the maximum suck? The suck value depends on the total of the its attributes from items, it can be less if the unit does little damage. There's no minimum and no maximum, technically there's just one value that has a cap.
Delicius169
Posts: 179
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Delicius169 »

So if I have suck ability 6, and I hit enemy for 5damage, my unit heals only 5 hp?
I wanted to ask, if you will implement legacy of dragons on dragon rider in a special way, as you said. I have one dragon rider, and I am still keeping his legacy unknow, just in case.
Sometimes happen, that my unit dont get advancement if it levels up during enemies turn. It happened to Efraim, who lvled up because of inicernate and of course I can live with that, but it is lost 1500xp for me.
The way how to solve it- there is an addon for multiplayer scenarions, which alows me to choose advancement I wiil take (elvish fighter- to captain or heroe) before I lvl up.

Also I have a feeling, that when my unit kills enemy and makes zombie form him, there is a bigger chance, that there will be dropped item. Am I correct?
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

So if I have suck ability 6, and I hit enemy for 5damage, my unit heals only 5 hp?
Yes.
I wanted to ask, if you will implement legacy of dragons on dragon rider in a special way, as you said. I have one dragon rider, and I am still keeping his legacy unknow, just in case.
I haven't decided yet. I think that it does not matter in your case, because normally the legacy is chosen when the unit is created and I can't foresee if you will choose to advance the unit into a dragon rider or something else. If I choose to give him mandatorily on of the dragon legacies, it will have to change if there is a dragon rider and he has an incorrect legacy anyway.
Sometimes happen, that my unit dont get advancement if it levels up during enemies turn. It happened to Efraim, who lvled up because of inicernate and of course I can live with that, but it is lost 1500xp for me.
The way how to solve it- there is an addon for multiplayer scenarions, which alows me to choose advancement I wiil take (elvish fighter- to captain or heroe) before I lvl up.
It should open when your turn starts. It used to have a bug, but it should be okay on the latest version. If it is not, it might be a separate bug, in that case, give me a save file where it can be replicated so that I could fix it.
That add-on will not help me, this is a very delicate case, there is a lot of black magic happening when units are advancing because without it, the game would have very low FPS.
Also I have a feeling, that when my unit kills enemy and makes zombie form him, there is a bigger chance, that there will be dropped item. Am I correct?
No. If you are very convinced that you are right, you can write down some statistics, but be careful that the drop chance may depend on scenario.
Delicius169
Posts: 179
Joined: February 16th, 2015, 5:02 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Delicius169 »

Unfortunately, I dont have a save file. It was month ago, and I forgot about it until now.
And I still think, that whirlwind attack is too strong. Especialy when enemy has berseker ability. Whirlwind attack has 2 strong abilities:
1.-enemy wont hit you back
2. you hit everyone around you
I would suggest, that primary target will hit you back.
I know that there is disadvantage that when I kill 5 guys in one turn by it, i will get experince only for my primary target, but it s not problem to avoid it.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Unfortunately, I dont have a save file. It was month ago, and I forgot about it until now.
Most likely because I have already fixed it.
And I still think, that whirlwind attack is too strong.
If the enemy could hit back, it would not become much harder, you'd just aim for the one who can't hit back too hard.
Spirit_of_Currents
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Spirit_of_Currents »

The main thing I try to say is "don't nerf suck too much". If minimum suck would be the same as maximum suck, then suck would be like leech. Wait! I just came to think that suck would in fact be less leech-like than it currently is.
How to do it: remove the cap from suck and compensate that by reducing items' suck value. Some items would even suck less than 1 HP. After counting the sum of every equipped item's suck, the suck total is rounded down.

Please don't make counterattack for whirlwind!
I think whirlwind needs a change: fine-tuning XP gained when using it. The XP would be the sum of XP from every adjacent enemy, divided by the number of adjacent enemies, rounded down.
There are very much electrical currents in my brain.
If I was a mainline unit, I would be a strong, resilient Inferno Drake.
fdsfsfdsjkljkl
Posts: 14
Joined: April 23rd, 2015, 5:43 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by fdsfsfdsjkljkl »

Dugi wrote:Great. The problem is the weird advancement system used by this campaign. I think that there is no good solution for wesnoth 1.12, but 1.13 adds a new possibility to solve the issue.
This sounds like a really interesting problem. I've started looking into it, and I wanted to mention a minor bug which I ran into while digging into the LotI AMLA system. There seems to be an extra debug message being printed to the screen when you advance a Blackguard with AMLA. Steps to repro:
1) Start the first scenartio
2) Recruit a Heavy Infantryman
3) Give him 5 advances, choose Blackguard and any AMLA.

You'll get an extra message ("has_charging backstab true") from what looks like debugging code in utils/stats.cfg line 3840.
Last edited by fdsfsfdsjkljkl on April 26th, 2015, 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

@Spirit_of_Currents
Now I understand it. It could be done, but it's somewhat counter-intuitive to give decimal values to suck. I was quite recently decreasing the effectiveness of most sources of suck, maybe I could reduce them all even further?

@fdsfsfdsjkljkl
I have fixed that bug already. If the problem is a forgotten debug message, I don't need such a detailed description usually, just what it says.
Thanks for looking at that.
fdsfsfdsjkljkl
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by fdsfsfdsjkljkl »

@Dugi
Sounds good. Another quick typo fix: units/Elvish_Assassin.cfg line 436:

Code: Select all

            description= _ "able to shoot a storm on arrows without giving the enemy a chance to counterattack"
Should be "a storm of arrows" instead of "a storm on arrows"
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