Legend of the Invincibles

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Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Prophet
20
20%
Reaper
9
9%
Scythemaster
5
5%
Shadowalker
6
6%
Shadow Prince
12
12%
Siege Troll
4
4%
Sky Goblin
2
2%
Snow Hunter
12
12%
Soul Shooter
3
3%
Swordmaster
13
13%
Troll Boulderlobber
1
1%
Warlock
8
8%
Werewolf Rider
3
3%
Zombie Rider
3
3%
 
Total votes: 101

Konrad2
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Konrad2 »

@dugi
I think everyone here agrees on this with me. You are a great programmer. We love you for your fast bug fixes and new releases :D
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Thanks :D
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dabber
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

I'm sorry about the attacks question. I have no idea what I was thinking yesterday.
Dugi wrote:Charging x3 on Widowmaker. Thinking whether I should change it to normal charge or change the name.
If you do that, you'll have to get rid of the -20% damage. Otherwise it would just be net +60% damage, offense only, with enemies hitting back double.
After using it a bit, I would leave it at charging 3, because I'm not finding it to be that awesome. Yes, it is impressive on offense, but I'm getting attacked a lot, and it is pretty terrible on defense. Just edit the text in abilities.cfg for WEAPON_SPECIAL_CHARGING POWER to put the multiplier into the description.

Other comment: Stormrend, which has Trickery, does not seem ever worthwhile to me. The value of Trickery is against an enemy that is hard to hit, but Stormrend has no extra ability to hit such an enemy. Since Stormrend does nothing else, there is no reason to ever use it. Admittedly, it is a low-end item.
xuanquang
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by xuanquang »

@dabber: How about the champion? I've never given him a stormrend, but I guest that it will work well because of his parry attack.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

dabber wrote:If you do that, you'll have to get rid of the -20% damage. Otherwise it would just be net +60% damage, offense only, with enemies hitting back double.
I reduced it to -10% when I reduced the multiplier. I have added that damage penalty when I realised that giving that item on units like Dwarves with heavy resistances was allowing them to deal huge amounts of damage without being much endangered (they also did a one-hit-KO frequently), and units with leech (huge life recovery) or whirlwind (no retaliation) could get it into extremes. Also, the -X% damage penalty is NOT multiplicative, so if you equip a non-weapon item with +20% damage, the negative effect is nullified (and that means more than 20% additional damage; the recipe Deathblade Inheritance absolutely depends on this possibility).
dabber wrote:Stormrend, which has Trickery, does not seem ever worthwhile to me.
Don't forget that it deals lightning damage. Nothing has resistances against lightning, not even those bosses with 60% resistance to everything. And trickery always helps to deal more damage to hard to kill enemies.
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dabber
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

I did not look closely and did not realize you had made Lightning a real damage type. Other attacks labeled "Lightning" are actually fire (Dwarf Hero AMLA) or arcane (Elder Mage).

Players, grant me your opinions!
Who should I give the Fencer's Study book to? It seems overkill on my Champion, since he pretty much rocks without it. If he needed anything more, it would be healing and resistance instead of damage and defense.
Have people found the Mind Raid ability useful? Is it worth crafting the item? I feel like many enemies have no experience, and thus Mind Raid won't do anything. Or I should grab a more damaging weapon and just kill them for x8 experience.
dffou
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dffou »

Bug with "Mask of insanity" : the berserk effect is marked "melee only", but if you give it to a Pilum Master, a Dwarvish Hero or a Dwavish protector, the berserk effect will also work on their ranged attacks.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

@dabber
It's quite usual in wesnoth to make lightning attacks deal fire damage. When I added lightning as a new campaign-specific damage type, I saw that setting resistances to it would be buggy (the user interface doesn't show it), so I decided to make it super-rare.

You may use Mind Raid on units that are very defensive and a lot of enemies will attack them and survive the retaliation. Then they'll have a lot of units with experience around.

@dffou
The problem is the way some effects are considered. Ranged javelin and hatchet attacks are influenced by bonuses to spear and axe attacks (respectively) and these are obtained from melee weapons. I know it's quite odd, but these attacks are mostly about throwing melee weapons. I might change it, but it I am thinking how would I do change (because it would be also quite weird if both melee and ranged attacks were affected by the same things, but with a few exceptions).
marktempe
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by marktempe »

Hi all! :D This is my first post so first of all I wanted to greet everyone. At least the readers.
Then of course thanks for this GREAT campaign.

And now the rest:

- In Gladiatrix - The path to glory at the beginning of turn 3, when the units are supposed to get into the arena and start fighting, they actually "pile up" and replace one another. If it's not enough, since Vritra disappears, you lose immediately.

- In The desert (the previous scenario) there most southern chest is already in the area that finishes the scenario. Meant to be?

- I couldn't really find it posted already, hence I apologize in advance, in case: if two units level up and are already at the "purple" levels, only one AMLA dialog shows up. The next one will show up in the next turn. Is it on purpose? And what if yes, what if in the next one, another unit advances?

- What I would really really really really love to have, is a summary of the final resistances of a unit in the "unit information" screen.. Jokes apart, my personal opinion is that it is dramatically needed. Also, I think it should be reformatted, but that is a minor issue.

- I have just noticed that checking the effects of the different attacks of an enemy unit shows -[a lot]% versus "demigod". On the other hand, the informations about demigods show that they have no particular resistences. How can it happen?

Finally:
dabber wrote:[...]

Players, grant me your opinions!
Who should I give the Fencer's Study book to? [...]
I usually give it to units using swords (and that already have some distance attack), since it gives advancements granting +damage and +resistances at once. But not to units with only melee attacks: to them I give some necromancy stuff or so (after checking the legacies) in order to provide them also a distance attack
Raijer
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Raijer »

marktempe wrote:- In Gladiatrix - The path to glory at the beginning of turn 3, when the units are supposed to get into the arena and start fighting, they actually "pile up" and replace one another. If it's not enough, since Vritra disappears, you lose immediately.
That's a bug in 1.11.17, i think it was fixed in 1.11.18.
marktempe wrote:- I couldn't really find it posted already, hence I apologize in advance, in case: if two units level up and are already at the "purple" levels, only one AMLA dialog shows up. The next one will show up in the next turn. Is it on purpose? And what if yes, what if in the next one, another unit advances?
From what i remember (it was reported something like 40-50 pages ago, i think), it was done to avoid having tons of AMLAs at the beginning of the turn. I doubt you're losing any AMLAs if another unit advances next turn. Just that this unit will have its AMLA shifted to the next turn.
Or it's a minor bug that Dugi never really bothered to fix.
marktempe wrote:- What I would really really really really love to have, is a summary of the final resistances of a unit in the "unit information" screen.. Jokes apart, my personal opinion is that it is dramatically needed. Also, I think it should be reformatted, but that is a minor issue.
Which "unit information screen" are you talking about ? The one you have when you choose AMLAs, the one Dugi created because we couldn't see all attacks or the basic one on the right of the screen ?
marktempe wrote:- I have just noticed that checking the effects of the different attacks of an enemy unit shows -[a lot]% versus "demigod". On the other hand, the informations about demigods show that they have no particular resistences. How can it happen?
Probably because the information given in the help is the basic one, for when your units have no items, no AMLAs. So your demigods, who are probably fully equipped, with at least one or two AMLAs that changes resistances, got quite special resistances.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

William Ernest Henley
marktempe
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by marktempe »

Raijer wrote:
marktempe wrote:- In Gladiatrix - The path to glory at the beginning of turn 3, when the units are supposed to get into the arena and start fighting, they actually "pile up" and replace one another. If it's not enough, since Vritra disappears, you lose immediately.
That's a bug in 1.11.17, i think it was fixed in 1.11.18.
my bad.. I was sure I had updated it, but I didn't.. it works now, I confirm.
Raijer wrote:
marktempe wrote:- What I would really really really really love to have, is a summary of the final resistances of a unit in the "unit information" screen.. Jokes apart, my personal opinion is that it is dramatically needed. Also, I think it should be reformatted, but that is a minor issue.
Which "unit information screen" are you talking about ? The one you have when you choose AMLAs, the one Dugi created because we couldn't see all attacks or the basic one on the right of the screen ?
Exactly that one. Since for some units, with all the advancements and the items, it can get long and tricky (and also one should check both the default info panel and the items), it would be of great help the possibility of checking it already computed in one single place.
Raijer wrote:
marktempe wrote:- I have just noticed that checking the effects of the different attacks of an enemy unit shows -[a lot]% versus "demigod". On the other hand, the informations about demigods show that they have no particular resistences. How can it happen?
Probably because the information given in the help is the basic one, for when your units have no items, no AMLAs. So your demigods, who are probably fully equipped, with at least one or two AMLAs that changes resistances, got quite special resistances.
And here I apologize again... I read 'demigod' and then I went checking Krux. Still, in my case Krux has no extra modifier whatsoever for cold damage, the standard info panel declares 10% resistance for it, but the info that shows up moving the cursor over the attacks informations of an enemy unit says it is 12%. I am also a bit surprised to notice that this last panel is actually updated according to what the defender(s) is using. But how is it done? In case of a lesser demigod, there is only one (Krux, again), but there are already two demigods and in general any kind of unit is modified by the items and advancements. In the specific case I checked, if I unequip everything from Efraim, the computation is updated; if I do the same with Lethalia, it's not. How should we look at those informations? Or in the case of a campaing like this one, with AMLAs and items I mean, those are not anymore consistent? (and again, that is why I was suggesting that summary in the "unit information".)
Raijer
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Raijer »

marktempe wrote:Exactly that one. Since for some units, with all the advancements and the items, it can get long and tricky (and also one should check both the default info panel and the items), it would be of great help the possibility of checking it already computed in one single place.
I assume you're speaking about the one on the right of the screen. Try hovering over the hps of the unit with your mouse, it should show the current resistances. I doubt there's any way to have it in the AMLA window.
marktemple wrote:I am also a bit surprised to notice that this last panel is actually updated according to what the defender(s) is using. But how is it done?
About that, i'm not the add-on coder, so you're gonna have to wait for Dugi's answer. It might be automatic though.
marktemple wrote:Or in the case of a campaign like this one, with AMLAs and items I mean, those are not anymore consistent?
Well, the unit description in the Wesnoth help surely aren't consistent anymore, as they do not take in account items and AMLAs.
But the attacking window is ok, Dugi's "unit information" (in the item menu) is ok, and the one on the right of the screen is also good.


To Dugi: i just noticed, but the resistances aren't included in your "unit information", that might be the problem. It would also be quite useful as it would finally assemble all possible information in one place.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

William Ernest Henley
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Thanks for replying, guys. Replying only to things that weren't properly replied to.

The Desert, oddly placed chest - moved it.

Resistances - the unit description is the description of the basic unit type, not of the unit itself. The right panel describes the unit (and as it was already told, you can see the resistances by hovering your mouse over the unit's health). I will add the resistances to the unit panel.

Double advancement - this thing all revolves around a workaround I needed to prevent the save files from being insanely huge. I barely made it work, so if there are some lesser problems, I prefer to keep them there because I may screw up many other things accidentally. I will fix this when wesnoth 1.12 officially comes out, the workaround isn't necessary on the latest versions.
Naron
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Naron »

Dugi, after some time, I decided to replay your campaign. Now I'm in the second part - Into the Light. I found a typo in the description of the demonologist unit: "nothing will grow for a hunred years ..." Should be hundred?
And in the scenario Doomsday Omens, Darken Volk is written Darken Folk - in the first sentence, in the rest of the sentences, the name is spelled correctly.

I have an idea about a weapon that could be added. I call it the Shocking Sword. Its properties: set damage type to lightning, set alignment to neutral, 40% more attacks, increase magical resistances with 20% (but decrease physical resistances with 20%) and weapon special: shock. A shocked enemy deals 30% less damage with weapons (melee and ranged), 40% less damage with magical attacks, its resistances (both physical and magical) are temporary decreased with 20% and its movement points are reduced with 3.
These effects lasts one turn, with one exception: the decrease of movement points lasts 2 turns. A graphic effect of the shock could be something like a red pulsating aura around the shocked unit.
The cost of the weapon should be quite high. What do you think?
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Fixed the demonologist typo.

Darken Volk's name is written badly on purpose, because it was an old story at that time and they couldn't remember the details correctly after all the years.

I think that the Shocking Sword would be badly overpowered. Lightning is already very good at ignoring the bosses' resistance (some have like 60% resist everything, lightning ignores it and deals more than twice as much damage). With 40% extra attacks, it would be a pretty strong weapon by itself. The weapon special is pretty tough too, it would allow you to keep one enemy badly crippled by a unit attacking him every turn. Reduced resistances and damage are pretty nasty, if you combine it with slow on some boss you'd make the boss totally harmless. It would be pretty overpowered, especially on weapon that is already a boss-killer.
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