Legend of the Invincibles

[Khar]

hm when i endet chapter 3 i already knew that i'd get the units back in chapter 5, so i deletet all the weak unit form chapter 1/2 my recall list... , in chapter 3 the units level also faster because the have a special chapter 3 exp bonus.

what exp bonus? im in chapter 3 and units gets exp normaly?

[Dugi]

They need only 80% of the usual experience to advance. This is not significant, so you might not have noticed it.

[Khar]

They need only 80% of the usual experience to advance. This is not significant, so you might not have noticed it.

in my case they need the same amount of exp as normaly...when i move pointer at experience, it shows "experience modificator = 125%" since 0,8*1,25 = 1, we have explanation. Only question left is why do i have exp. modificator 125% in all units (both equiped and unequiped)

[Dugi]

The experience modifier was set to 125% due to balance in chapters 1-5. Units from chapter 3 used to advance faster right from the first time I published this add-on, so when I was manipulating the exp settings, I made them advance normally while other units advance slightly slower. The experience modifier is a setting of a scenario, not a setting of a unit, so I could not make it different for units recruited in chapter 3 and for units recalled from previous chapters.

[Khar]

so there is no bonus for advancing, there is just disadvantage for old units...so everything is ok, i was just confused by that post...

[gfgtdf]

n the last scenaio of chapter 7 side 4 doesn't recuit abyting (the recruit misses in the side tag)

EDIT: i noticed that the units that were made by the "new turn" event before the bad lethia, becomes visible were placed in th recall list, so when sou see lethia bad she recalls the (relertivale weak) normal lvl 4 units before she recuits the normal units.

oh and regarding the zombie brblem maybe you could make the edifferent zombies advance to different (or types of zombies/undead)?

[Silux]

The bug with two identical units to advance to was fixed some time ago, and its fix might not come instantly when you install an update. Showing too many custom abilities is also a bug that was fixed long ago, but it was fixed long before the previous one was even created, so it's weird. Do you mean the same as I think? Do they show tons of weapon specials they don't have on the recall list?

I refreshed and updated the campaign and it doesn't happen no more.
I tried to reproduce the bug but i couldn't

Soulless does not advance to level 1 skeletons, but to level 2 skeletons. This is simply because I wanted the Walking Corpses you create all the time to be able to advance into something with a good potential.

I agree that lvl2 skeletons are overall more useful than zombies, but they are weak to fire, and lose the plague touch:(
It happened for me to have a lvl2 zombie bat evolving just when fighting over a big chasm.It became an helpless 0 defence skeleton, unable to move...

Regarding the story, the first chapter is mostly about the development of characters, following ones are rather about other things. It was impossible to let you make more than a very few decisions, because the events of all following chapters depend on it, and one change might lead to a significantly different destiny (if Efraim and Lethalia weren't liches, chapter 6 would be about nothing).

Yes i understand that most of event of the story are needed.
It still seem very odd to get no choice, as you can decide even more things than normal campaigns in battlefield.
There could be mock choices to add some fake decisions.
Just like the choices between sea or land travel in "Heir to the trone" or chosing wether to ally with trolls or dwarves in "Under the burning suns"

Good luck in chapter 2.

Thanks:D

[arobinson]

Maybe Soulless should have a set of simple AMLA added?

Perhaps nothing too powerful, but allow it to have some additional advancements, but never progress beyond level 1 (or make a level 2 soulless with the same artwork as level 1?)

[Dugi]

n the last scenaio of chapter 7 side 4 doesn't recuit abyting (the recruit misses in the side tag)

Really... thanks for telling.

EDIT: i noticed that the units that were made by the "new turn" event before the bad lethia, becomes visible were placed in th recall list, so when sou see lethia bad she recalls the (relertivale weak) normal lvl 4 units before she recuits the normal units.

Enemies do never recall. There is one trick to fake it, but I never used it. These units just appear next to her, and that is primarily made to make sure she will always have a body to possess. There is no event that fires after that the AI finishes recruiting, in fact, it never happens (for example, if a unit attacks an Exterminator of yours who uses his chaos weapon special and kills an newly recruited unit, the leader will recruit one additional unit before continuing to attack). Any way to fake it would not be reliable. In that case, I would prefer to enlarge her keep to make sure there will be enough space for recruiting... if you think she does not recruit enough units.

oh and regarding the zombie brblem maybe you could make the edifferent zombies advance to different (or types of zombies/undead)?

That is possible, but which units should they advance to? There is no lizard skeleton, no drake skeleton, no fish skeleton, etc. Mounted zombies might advance to chocobones, but that is all I can think of.

Maybe Soulless should have a set of simple AMLA added?

I agree that lvl2 skeletons are overall more useful than zombies, but they are weak to fire, and lose the plague touch:(

Level 1 units are in this campaign useful only for advancing and being used as cannon fodder. If they won't advance, they'll be cannon fodder forever. I would prefer altering the things they advance to, maybe some skeletons with lowered damage and added plague. Their fire resistance drop is not so bad, because when their maximum health increases, they'll be still able to sustain more fire damage than they could before anyway.

It happened for me to have a lvl2 zombie bat evolving just when fighting over a big chasm.It became an helpless 0 defence skeleton, unable to move...

I did not think of this possibility. I'll have to figure something out.

About storyline choices, you have some, but they are not in the first nor second chapter. In chapter 5 and chapter 9 (once I finish it), you will have enough choices. You have also some choices in chapters 3, 4 and 6. I might add something to chapters 1 and 2, but I would prefer to finish the base story (till its end in chapter 10) before adding something that is not very important and lengthy to do. In Heir to the Throne, the different paths mean many additional scenarios, and in Under the Burning Suns, it means that you have to choose between having a useful troll in your party and continuation of events into the Soujournings of Grog campaign, or the less useful drawf in your campaign and continuation of events into the Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm campaigns (and later parts of Legend of the Invincibles are loosely based on some events in Invasion from the Unkown, although it does not mention neither of the possible decisions in Under the Burning Suns).

(or make a level 2 soulless with the same artwork as level 1?)

That is not the way I do things.

Update: 12 scenarios from chapter 9 are written.

[gfgtdf]

Enemies do never recall. There is one trick to fake it, but I never used it. These units just appear next to her, and that is primarily made to make sure she will always have a body to possess. There is no event that fires after that the AI finishes recruiting, in fact, it never happens (for example, if a unit attacks an Exterminator of yours who uses his chaos weapon special and kills an newly recruited unit, the leader will recruit one additional unit before continuing to attack). Any way to fake it would not be reliable. In that case, I would prefer to enlarge her keep to make sure there will be enough space for recruiting... if you think she does not recruit enough units.

im quite sure they do (because there is no other wexplanition they get a lot of lvl 4 units they cannot recruit, and the event gives also only one unit. ). they just don't do it normaly because they don't have any units in the recall nomraly list i think. here is a quote from the replay of side 2 turn

Code: Select all

	[command]
		[init_side]
		[/init_side]
	[/command]
	[command]
		[recall]
			value="Elvish Sylph-18078"
			x=35
			y=19
			[from]
				x=36
				y=19
			[/from]
		[/recall]
	[/command]
	[command]
		[recall]
			value="Elvish Sylph-18073"
			x=36
			y=18
			[from]
				x=36
				y=19
			[/from]
		[/recall]
	[/command]
	[command]
		[recall]
			value="Elvish Sylph-18043"
			x=35
			y=18
			[from]
				x=36
				y=19
			[/from]
		[/recall]
	[/command]
	[command]
		[attack]
			attacker_lvl=25
			attacker_type="Lethalia_evil"
			defender_lvl=3
			defender_type="Lunatic Knight"
			defender_weapon=-1
			seed=29024
			tod="underground"
			turn=49
			weapon=1
			[source]
				x=36
				y=19
			[/source]
			[destination]
				x=36
				y=20
			[/destination]
		[/attack]
		[random]
			value=13051
			[results]
				chance=70
				damage=21
				dies=no
				hits=yes
				unit_hit="defender"
			[/results]
		[/random]
		[random]
			value=5886
			[results]
				chance=70
				damage=0
				dies=no
				hits=no
				unit_hit="defender"
			[/results]
		[/random]
	[/command]
	[command]
		[end_turn]
		[/end_turn]
	[/command]

[Dugi]

Correct, the event gives only one unit. She creates two units only if she dies and prepares to possess somebody else. An AI-played side can have a recall list, but I did not add anything to it ever (and I never thought that the AI can recall). It seems from that save file that she did recall something, but I have no idea how. The only possibility to accidentally put something on the recall list is to place it on coordinates that are out of the map's boundaries. I will have to investigate this.

Update: 15 scenarios of chapter 9 are written.

[xhh2a]

I have a bug with units being duplicated on advancement (AMA) on Wesnoth 1.11.1 and LotI 2.4.14. It seems to affect the unit on every other advancement and tied to a bug with advancement itself.

Unit A Advances past Level 4 (Max)
Pick an AMA. (Side note:) On occasion the AMA doesn't take effect (that is to say, you select the advancement, but it doesn't actually get applied!). This generally occurs if the experience required to level up does not goes up. If said unit gets leveled up again (a second time, any number of turns after while the unit is still bugged (see below)), the experience required to level up does actually go up, and the selected advancement does get applied.

Units can be moved again after the first advancement. This unit is some "advance"/nonexistent version of the unit (I guess used by the script, it's in the name if you go to the menu and click alter advancement option, it'll pop up an error message saying that it isn't valid for nonexistent unit type, alternatively you know it is the non-normal version of the unit if the alter advancement option is not available in the menu). Note there is no normal unit that is selectable.
Move the advance unit to a different location (important!)
Advance a different unit B (can be in 1 turn later)
The normal unit of A is recreated at the location it was before. This duplicate copy is the actual unit (non advance prefix on unit type) with the selected advancement from the first time applied.
On occasion in ~3 turns, the advance/nonexistent unit gets converted to a normal proper unit, leading to 2 duplicate functioning advancement units.

Normally this is manageable for recruited units (just dismiss the duplicated unit on next recall), but when it happens to the main characters/heroes, I don't really have a way to prevent it from occurring except to NOT move the unit and wait around 3 turns (after the 3 turns the bug seems to go away) or enabling debug mode and manually forcing another advancement. And once the bug happens, I'm basically forced to reload cause there's no way to get rid of the duplicate main unit without triggering the defeat (since said unit can't die).

--------------
Different bugs:
-On experimental theme, if a unit has > 3 attacks, they are cut off on the sidebar. Works on default.
--------------
Can the profile page for a unit be updated to show proper unit info, or is that not possible? I seem to remember Invasion from the Unknown has items that adds effects such as drain or poison, and that shows up on the profile page of the unit.
--------------
Souless bats upgrade to Level 1 Skeleton units. Not helpful
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Would be nice if the item inventory could show you only items equip-able by the selected unit instead of trial+error.
--------------

[Dugi]

The advancement bug was created by a change in the way some things in core wesnoth worked between wesnoth 1.11.0 (and 1.10) and 1.11.1. I have added there a version controller, that fixes it if the version is 1.11.1 or higher. I have added it in LotI version 2.4.12, and I am quite sure that this bug did not show up when I tested it. I know very well how this bug manifests, but atm, I would like to see a save file with the bug, to see what happened to the version control.

It is not my fault that the experimental theme sidebar causes problems with showing attacks of a unit, the guys who made the experimental theme should make it compatible with WML. If you wish to use it, use the right-click menu -> Items -> Unit Information to see the things it does not want to tell.

The profile page cannot be updated with unit info because it shows the the properties of that unit type, not of the unit. There are ways to work it around, but they are too impractical and I seriously don't think it is used in Invasion from the Unknown. If you pick the Void armour in Heir to the Throne, the unit does not get an update to the unit info. If you take the Sceptre of Fire with Konrad or Li'sar, it changes their appearance, but does not change the description there. All the information you need is found on the sidebar (you might need to hover your mouse over health to see the resistances) or in right-click menu -> Items -> Unit Information.

I realised only recently that soulless bats advance into skeletons (level 2 skeletons, btw) that might cause a problem. I promised to fix this.

The items a unit can equip are almost purely based on the attacks the unit has. If it has a sword, saber, longsword, short sword or something like that, it can use swords, if it has an axe attack or battle axe attack, it can use axes, etc. It is not so intuitive with less usual attacks (metal claws for gryphons...) and with staves (that usually can be used also by mages who don't wield staves), but this is not a frequent case. Therefore, there is no list of items that can be equipped, it is just derived from its attacks.

[xhh2a]

Here's a savegame, first scenario, done via unit advances = 11, move 1 tile, then unit advances = 1 on the main character.

Wesnoth 1.11.1 and 2.4.14 Campaign.

----------------
Feedback about the difficulty: Turn limits could be higher on maps with Shroud for Medium/Normal, I failed quite a few of them cause I was exploring (ex the first Forest one where you follow the path and then cross the bridge to fight enemies).

At the same time, some maps could do with a turn limit, such as when you are escaping the prison because you can farm almost infinite gold from that.

The dreamscape where you fight the spirits has weird impassable terrain, I couldn't get my enslaved ghosts （which I sent off to fight some other ghosts) to help kill the dragon's spirit (level 3 ghost?) because they couldn't reach the area, so I failed it on my first try (it WAS attacking me, and I got it to around half health at turn 10, basically I sat on top of a village and fought there).

[Dugi]

I am having serious technical difficulties with using that save file. The bug was elsewhere than I expected, so I could not just read it manually. When I tried to install Wesnoth 1.11 (I tried three ways to do it!), it crashed due to a segmentation fault. When I installed it on Wine (a.k.a. emulating Windows), I somehow could not use keyboard while in game, so I could not activate the debug mode (and by the way, debug commands can cause this error even on 1.10). Can you please give me a save file where I can replicate it with a few mouse clicks?