Legend of the Invincibles

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply

Which of these crafting recipes you are using or planning to use? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

The End of All that Is
4
9%
Gloombringer
1
2%
Soul Eclipse
4
9%
Guerilla
5
11%
Scaryface
6
13%
Thundering Revenge
2
4%
Marie Byrd
4
9%
Marrowrend
11
23%
Deathblade Inheritance
0
No votes
Soul Render
10
21%
 
Total votes: 47

flyskippy1
Posts: 11
Joined: February 20th, 2013, 12:14 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by flyskippy1 » March 8th, 2013, 5:14 am

Dugi wrote:You don't have to carry all these items in the storage, because the units you lost will be brought back. I have no idea how is wesnoth played on touch-only devices. I even if I threw there like 100 items, it was not a problem to scroll through them with a normal mouse. At this point, it might not be hard to split the list into more lists, but I prefer if it is all together, because it is more comfortable to me (and, Wesnoth is primarily played on Windows, where scrolling is no problem). Adding one more menu to click through would be tedious IMO. I might move the axes and spears to the bottom of the list if you want.
Playing on the iPad's actually pretty good. The touch-only isn't really a problem, as you really only have to type if you want to rename a unit. It's really the slower graphics processor that makes the scrolling slower, I think. You can't edit any of the files, of course.

Anyways, I hadn't un-equiped the units. I've just not wanted to give items to any units that haven't hit Level 4 yet, so I accumulated a lot of them in Chapters 3 and 4, where level 2s and 3s are really just fodder. Now that I'm in Chapter 5, it's gotten better as I've handed out about 2/3rds of them. (Really enjoying Chapter 5, by the way.) Doesn't help that I never managed to level any undead or cavalry, or I'd probably have used more of those spears and axes.

Though, I still have more books then I have level 4 units... Allocating books to units is a little tough as I'm not exactly sure what they all do until I get a unit to use it several times.

For example, my first instinct is to give the "Master of Fencing" books to a Fencer, but I suppose they already know Fencing so they don't need it... And I haven't figured out the difference between Master of Fencing and Magical Swordplay yet as I haven't AMLAed with them more than once.

Book of Fireballs, if pretty obvious, though. :D It's actually my favorite and is super useful for units that don't otherwise have a ranged attack, like Destoyers.


Oh, and this probably goes back to my "scrolling" thing a bit. In Chapters 3 and 4 do we really need the ability to recruit level 1s, 2s and 3s? If the 2s and 3s are available, does anyone ever bother with the level 1s? (I'm speaking specifically of the non-loyal units in Chapter 3, and all the L1 elves and undead in Chapter 4.)

Khar
Posts: 10
Joined: March 7th, 2013, 4:07 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Khar » March 8th, 2013, 11:10 am

thanks guys.

2)i just realized why the second chapter was so easy - you mostly fight skeletons and elves (pierced and blade attack, volnurability to arcane and fire) and you have a heroes with great resistance against pierced and blade attack and massive arcane and fire damage (if you train them well). On the other hand you can recall just elves (mostly units with pierced and blade attack), which are wery week against skeletons. other chapters are completely different

3)i think i will have to play second chapter once again and level-up Efraim and Letheia more wisely

gfgtdf
Developer
Posts: 1201
Joined: February 10th, 2013, 2:25 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by gfgtdf » March 8th, 2013, 1:42 pm

hm when i endet chapter 3 i already knew that i'd get the units back in chapter 5, so i deletet all the weak unit form chapter 1/2 my recall list... , in chapter 3 the units level also faster because the have a special chapter 3 exp bonus.

givng "master of fencing" seems a good idea to me since it only give +1 melle damage + defense amlas (it gives NO new attack), also it s good for untis with a lot but weak melee attacks. Magical Swordsplay is almost the same, but it has seperate amlas for defnse and melee damage, so TFS has better but BomS has more flexible amlas.
If youre realy unsure with the description of an items aou can always take a look at the item_list config it isn't hard to understand .

I have a question about
Tome of liches: do the amlas you have already done remain if the unit dies and becomes a lich? a lot of amls will be useless after you become a lich so everything you got left is the +10% exp maulus, on the other hand some might be realy good.
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.

flyskippy1
Posts: 11
Joined: February 20th, 2013, 12:14 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by flyskippy1 » March 8th, 2013, 7:49 pm

gfgtdf wrote:If youre realy unsure with the description of an items aou can always take a look at the item_list config it isn't hard to understand .
Downloading it on a machine where I can view the configs is a slippery slope. Because I'm going to want to go through everything to see how it works and what items and abilities are available.

@Dugi: After looking through the item config, there seems to be an item #57 referenced in a couple places that doesn't actually exist. Unless it's defined somewhere I couldn't find with grep. Not sure if it used to exist and got deleted.

gfgtdf
Developer
Posts: 1201
Joined: February 10th, 2013, 2:25 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by gfgtdf » March 8th, 2013, 10:54 pm

i just tested it and the advancements don't dissapear, that means all lichs created with "Tome of liches" have shadow wave attack twice, i think you should delete the ToL1 advancement on the necromancy event.

@flyskippy1
hm in my config item 57 is defindet, it's "Tormentor of Light"
Edit: it was "Tormentor of Light" befire the update.
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.

flyskippy1
Posts: 11
Joined: February 20th, 2013, 12:14 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by flyskippy1 » March 8th, 2013, 11:57 pm

gfgtdf wrote:@flyskippy1
hm in my config item 57 is defindet, it's "Tormentor of Light"
Edit: it was "Tormentor of Light" befire the update.
Yeah, it's got a new number now, but '57' still listed in the low_item drop list for maces (and possibly elsewhere). And the non-low_item list has 157, which is actually the Dark Helm of Destuction.

gfgtdf
Developer
Posts: 1201
Joined: February 10th, 2013, 2:25 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by gfgtdf » March 9th, 2013, 2:08 pm

some bug:
1) the lich advancement "melee3" needs "melee3" as requirememnt
2) if you attack evil lethia in The_Last_enemy with a unit that has inmmune to fire , the ranged attack numbers of lethia remains 0 after the attack
3) the Dragonrider has a too large image on the recall list
4) the impact resoictance amla has the id "resist_fire1"
5) I cant find a amls that should have been unkocked by Thunderstorm reedem
6) some advancements of Anicent Lich improve "Chill Wave" but the actual name of the attack is "Chill Tempest"
7) Elvish assasins attack "execution" is bugged (at least if if was supposed ot be a bonus_attack ???) it has only 27-1 attack on me (the normal attack has 28-10 attack and focused, slowing), i suppose thats because the Elvis assasin has a "execution" attack in its config file so its copying from that attack not from the longbow attack.. , if i delete the attack or add "temporary=yes", execution has 170-1 and focused
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.

manurong
Posts: 4
Joined: January 22nd, 2013, 2:18 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by manurong » March 10th, 2013, 2:43 pm

Hi Dugi,

Thanks for this great campaign, can't wait for the next chapter...

I'd like to point out a little thought I've had about traits: they are balanced for mainstream wesnoth but in LotI, "quick" sucks: if I take a "faster" advancement, it'll be just the same but without the HP lost. On the other hand "intelligent" seems really overpowered.

Of course this is IMO, but maybe you could give it a thought.

EDIT: and I forgot to ask: it make things easier for me, but is it normal that bersek (and lesser bersek) is activated when defending against a whirlwind attack?

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4931
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi » March 10th, 2013, 8:52 pm

Elendil wrote:Chap 6, scenario 8 "Misguiding Lives", Charles the Counsellor is repeating twice ""A messenger recently came to him. Maybe it was her."
Oops, seems I was copying the [message] form to insert a text and forgot to write the text there.
Elendil wrote:Scenario 9 "Across the Barren Lands" has a turn limit of 200, and we keep 100% of the gold at the end, making us start the next scenario with 15K gold.
Really thanks for reporting this. This error is repeated in like 5 more scenarios. It was easy to fix, though.
Elendil wrote:Chap 7, scenario 1, there is a typo in the mayor's speech. He's saying magicain instead of magician.
At that time, I thought it writes magicain and not magician. Strange that I haven't noticed the spellcheck's bashing.
SchDerGrosse wrote:My question is, how extensively (if at all) was this series of scenarios tested?
I have tested it and balanced it, but many changes have been done from then, it should be relatively balanced (except the last parts), see the rest of the discussion for more information.
flyskippy1 wrote:Oh, and this probably goes back to my "scrolling" thing a bit. In Chapters 3 and 4 do we really need the ability to recruit level 1s, 2s and 3s? If the 2s and 3s are available, does anyone ever bother with the level 1s? (I'm speaking specifically of the non-loyal units in Chapter 3, and all the L1 elves and undead in Chapter 4.)
A level 3 unit cannot soak as much damage as three level 1 units. It will retaliate more, but if you just need to earn time until your main offensive force arrives, more level 1 cannon fodder is better. There are sometimes reasons to recruit lower level units. Also, traditionally, like in Age of Heroes era, if you can recruit level 2 units, you can also recruit level 1 units. Does it bug you really bad?
gfgtdf wrote:hm when i endet chapter 3 i already knew that i'd get the units back in chapter 5, so i deletet all the weak unit form chapter 1/2 my recall list... , in chapter 3 the units level also faster because the have a special chapter 3 exp bonus.
Deleting weak units, especially Walking Corpses, is really good to diminish the size of save files and the overall performance. I think that I might make it delete ungeared Walking Corpses from the recall list automatically, I wonder what is your opinion about it.
gfgtdf wrote:I have a question about
Tome of liches: do the amlas you have already done remain if the unit dies and becomes a lich? a lot of amls will be useless after you become a lich so everything you got left is the +10% exp maulus, on the other hand some might be realy good.
I intended to wipe all AMLAs taken on undead rebirth, I thought I had done it, but it seems that I forgot. From the next version, they will be wiped. Gear will remain untouched.
flyskippy1 wrote:@Dugi: After looking through the item config, there seems to be an item #57 referenced in a couple places that doesn't actually exist. Unless it's defined somewhere I couldn't find with grep. Not sure if it used to exist and got deleted.
Grep is perfect to find stuff, if it does not find something, it probably does not exist. There is no item with the number 57, it was added due to some confusion (Tormentor of Light mace had to have its number 75, but I accidentally wrote 57 there, and the actual item number 57 never appeared then, and because I didn't know about the problem with the mace, I changed its number to make it drop), and I have forgotten to remove it from that random item roll list. I will probably create another item with the number 57. Thanks for reporting, it was probably making the Glitch Item appear.
gfgtdf wrote:1) the lich advancement "melee3" needs "melee3" as requirememnt
Oops, thanks for telling.
gfgtdf wrote:2) if you attack evil lethia in The_Last_enemy with a unit that has inmmune to fire , the ranged attack numbers of lethia remains 0 after the attack
This is an odd error. I know what is the cause, but I am not quite sure how to fix it. Thanks for telling, anyway.
gfgtdf wrote:3) the Dragonrider has a too large image on the recall list
Yes. Fire Dragon is also too large, he just isn't a usual recruit. The recruit list shows the in-game sprite, but I think I know a solution here.
gfgtdf wrote:5) I cant find a amls that should have been unkocked by Thunderstorm reedem
Thunderstorm does not exist. You can never get it, it just shows that it has some requirements. I initially wanted to add an attack named Thunderstorm, but I changed my mind later and haven't noticed that it already was mentioned. Thanks for reporting.
gfgtdf wrote:6) some advancements of Anicent Lich improve "Chill Wave" but the actual name of the attack is "Chill Tempest"
Fixed.
gfgtdf wrote:7) Elvish assasins attack "execution" is bugged
Confirmed, I have not found the cause yet, but adding temporary=yes to that attack helped.
manurong wrote:I'd like to point out a little thought I've had about traits: they are balanced for mainstream wesnoth but in LotI, "quick" sucks: if I take a "faster" advancement, it'll be just the same but without the HP lost. On the other hand "intelligent" seems really overpowered.
Not so much. If you take the speed advancement, your maximum experience increases by 20%. If you have the trait, you have the unit faster without that. I agree that it is worse than strong or dextrous traits, but it is not much different. It increases the maximum speed after all speed advancements, so it has also some advantage.
Intelligent is not so good, it decreases the maximum exp by 20%, but the first advancement will increase the maximum exp by 20%, that is almost to the same value. It is less than one free advancement still, and advancements are usually not much stronger than traits.
manurong wrote:EDIT: and I forgot to ask: it make things easier for me, but is it normal that bersek (and lesser bersek) is activated when defending against a whirlwind attack?
Yes, it does. Berserkers are helpless against whirlwinders, but enemies never have whirlwind (but maybe some boss will have), and you fight rarely against units with berserk, only some demons may have it and demons were always about finding their weak spots.

gfgtdf
Developer
Posts: 1201
Joined: February 10th, 2013, 2:25 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by gfgtdf » March 12th, 2013, 6:28 pm

i think removing ungeared walking corpses from recall list automaticly is a good idea (i just tried to delete units maualy and got a bug http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38479)

maybe raising the attack_end event manualy in The_Last_enemy would be an idea.

so the only purpose of the thuderstor is that is is an requirement for particlestorm?

i also think inteligent is the best trait since it does also lower the exp you need to get a unit to the last level and its usualsy harder to get exp with a unit of a lower level, and in the long run it is equal to a free amla and i like my units to get almas.
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4931
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi » March 12th, 2013, 6:46 pm

I don't understand what did you mean with 'raising attack_end event manually'.

Particle storm does not require thunder storm. Maybe it is written there, but it not required. Or maybe I fixed it before reading your reply, but after the last upload.

Intelligent is not so good - it lowers the exp required by 20%, and the first AMLA increases it by 20%, after it, the unit requires 96% of its original experience maximum, so it is like one free AMLA, or 1.3 free AMLAs over a really long time.
See this table of total amount of % of former max experience required to advance to levels till 30:

gfgtdf
Developer
Posts: 1201
Joined: February 10th, 2013, 2:25 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by gfgtdf » March 12th, 2013, 9:11 pm

Dugi wrote:I don't understand what did you mean with 'raising attack_end event manually'.
ahh was a bad idea forget it.
Dugi wrote: Particle storm does not require thunder storm. Maybe it is written there, but it not required. Or maybe I fixed it before reading your reply, but after the last upload.
hm i still use version .13 (i have done some changes and i dont want to remake it everytime), maybe thats the reason.
Dugi wrote: Intelligent is not so good - it lowers the exp required by 20%, and the first AMLA increases it by 20%, after it, the unit requires 96% of its original experience maximum, so it is like one free AMLA, or 1.3 free AMLAs over a really long time.
but you could say a trait is like an advancement, so inteligent is like a normal trail plus it make the unit reach the level 4/5 faster, so i would say it is a little better than other traits.

ah another bug if you drop an item and then pick the item and then go to the place whre the items was you cannot undo.
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4931
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi » March 12th, 2013, 9:31 pm

I said that I don't know how was it before, but in the version I am working on, there is no thunderstorm, neither in requirements nor in advancements available (I used search and it found nothing).
And I know that intelligent is better, but it will become a free AMLA after 9 AMLAs (that is like killing 80 demons, think of that), while other traits are not much weaker from AMLAs and apply right from the start. It is much less useful on leaders, who are more likely to kill dozens of demons.

Update: 5 scenarios written, but what matters more is that a most macros are written and working, most of the needed artwork is done/assembled, so writing scenarios should be much faster in the future.

Silux
Posts: 119
Joined: January 28th, 2013, 8:48 pm
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Silux » March 12th, 2013, 11:33 pm

It's really a great project!

The scenario i liked most of the 1st chapter was Ascension.
I'd never thought i would be able to beat a lvl3 spectre with a bunch of lvl spirits!

1)I run in some bugs with lvl 4 units, as the advancement got me to choose between two identic units, and the chosen appears to have ALL the custom abilities.
I can dig better to find the cause of it, but it didn't bother much.
2)the advancement of the Soul-less brought me to choose between lvl1 skeletons.I'd rather had him to gain an amla or an extra attack^^

The loot system is really great and i found interesting items all times.
I found hard to find info about exotic traits and remembering which unit has which gear.I ended up renaming the units to remembering what they had equipped or read the cfg files to get an idea of what those traits were.
Abilities are good and flavorful and many of these are somewhat complimentary to the game (i guess there will be also daytime ambush:D).
Antisocial and absorb where the ones i liked more in the concept, and the units which had them are really cool.

The story of the first chapter was to me really ... well i can't find words.In a good way.
Efraim is arrogant as the general in the first scenario but slowly becames the good hero one would want to be.
Then he became a lich.The most powerful and awesome lich you could figure out, stealing the power to live forever from a legendary Fire Dragon.
A good lich who looks good and befriend and then marry a powerful nynph, healer, necromancer, powerful, lich yet attractive elf princess.
There's no limit to their power and they could free Ogira from a siege of 5 orc leader just by themselves.
And lord Argan, formerly the general who banished Efraim joins them, becoming a preserved lich too.

I felt somewhat bad for the immoral choices taken from Efraim, and i wished there where a choice in story breakpoints, like the decision to become a lich or to choose to go diplomatically or not against the dwarves or the shadow empire rebels.
Maybe the choices would have brought both to the main story, but i felt like on a railroad.

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4931
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi » March 12th, 2013, 11:48 pm

Well, I am glad you liked it.

The bug with two identical units to advance to was fixed some time ago, and its fix might not come instantly when you install an update. Showing too many custom abilities is also a bug that was fixed long ago, but it was fixed long before the previous one was even created, so it's weird. Do you mean the same as I think? Do they show tons of weapon specials they don't have on the recall list?

Soulless does not advance to level 1 skeletons, but to level 2 skeletons. This is simply because I wanted the Walking Corpses you create all the time to be able to advance into something with a good potential.

I plan to add some kind of tutorial and to add a list of abilities somewhere, because there is really too many of them to remember (do you think that I can remember them?), but I'll do that later.

Regarding the story, the first chapter is mostly about the development of characters, following ones are rather about other things. It was impossible to let you make more than a very few decisions, because the events of all following chapters depend on it, and one change might lead to a significantly different destiny (if Efraim and Lethalia weren't liches, chapter 6 would be about nothing).

Good luck in chapter 2.

Post Reply