Legend of the Invincibles

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Which of these crafting recipes you are using or planning to use? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

The End of All that Is
4
9%
Gloombringer
1
2%
Soul Eclipse
4
9%
Guerilla
5
11%
Scaryface
6
13%
Thundering Revenge
2
4%
Marie Byrd
4
9%
Marrowrend
11
23%
Deathblade Inheritance
0
No votes
Soul Render
10
21%
 
Total votes: 47

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi » February 16th, 2013, 8:43 pm

If this was used, all slowing attacks performed against the unit with slow immunity would not slow it, but would also end the combat after one successful blow. This would make the ability overpowered against any enemy that prefers a slowing attack, because the AI would not expect this. You send out a strong melee unit with this ability against a load of these goblin riders with nets, they would prefer the ranged attack to take less damage from retaliation and then surprise, you can hit only once and without slowing, and your hero beats them all because they would never realise what were they doing wrong.
I might remove slow after every slowing blow that lands, but it would not suppress the slowing sound (your method would neither).

Naron
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Naron » February 16th, 2013, 9:13 pm

I was thinking that this is an exclusive ability of demigods. It would be very useful against demons (which I hate with all my heart, because they almost always slows me).
It could be something gained through advancements or redeem.
So my idea would work? It allows immunity to slowing?

RainerT
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by RainerT » February 17th, 2013, 9:44 am

Dugi wrote:Their base damages and resistances are not much higher than the base damages of other, ordinary units. As preserved liches, they have the lowest base resistances as a hybrid between living and lich could logically have, as demigods, there are some warrior units like Swordmaster or Destroyer whose base resistances are better.
It is the problem of "logic" verses gameplay. You shouldn't care to much about about the logic, because people want to have a fun and a good story. If someone wants to have logic and realism he is better served with other games. Even if a preserved lich or demigod is very special it doesn't neccessarily mean they are great fighters or magicians from the beginning. I'm more concerned about Lethalia, because she is more powerful than Efraim especially as preserved lich.

In term of resistances the demigods fire and cold resistance should be reduced to 15 or 20. Lethalias physical resistance should be reduced to 10. I would reduce the positve resistances of the preserved liches as well, but also half the negativ value for arcane. On the offensive side for the demigods Lethalia should have reduce melee damage and one attack less in ranged. For Efraim perhaps a slight reduction in damage and one fireball less. I don't know much about the new spells you can get later on, because I took only one level in arctic blast to have a mass slow spell. It should be adequate. For the preserved liches it should be about the same. Efraims cold spell doesn't have to be reduced.

Another point are the items. I think they are becoming to strong with all the possible combinations, especially on the offensive side. The only thing that is okay, are the arcane resistances from items, because you rarly find one with more than +10. I know a reduction it is a lot of work, but from a balancing point of view definetly worth the effort.
Dugi wrote:You are suggesting something that is a part of the campaign for long. Magical resistances and in some rare cases physical resistances are simply added, but physical resistances are added in the way you just suggested. If an item's description says 20% to physical resistances, it adds 20% to units that have currently 0%, it adds more to units that have less and less to units that have more (units with -50% resistance would get 30% to resistances from that item, units with 50% reistance would get 10% to that resistance). Advancements add the resistances normally, but the exact numbers are specific for every single unit (they might be replaced by more convenient numbers if you suggest where).
I checked most of the time the magic resistances, because they are more important and easier to calculate. The magical resistances should work the same way as the physical. If you do that and some of the things mentioned above, the enemies damage in Chapter 7 and especially the magical one should be reduced as well, because it is pretty tough.
Dugi wrote:I said there is an ability that sucks 2 points of life from all adjacent units, allies and enemies alike, and this property is intended. Or do you want to alter it?
In general, abilities that hurt enemies and allies don't fit very well in a game like BoW. Since enemies are dying very fast while your own troops are allways around, it hurts you more than it helps. Leeches should just hurt enemies. Apart from this general point, the Malice Weapon from Crafting doesn't say anything about leeches. Either you forgot to mention it or leeches shouldn't be part of it.
Dugi wrote:It is not available for melee attacks, neither for secondary attacks, such as Duke's and Shadowalker's crossbow. Do you want to change it?
No, I was just curious.
Dugi wrote:I don't believe Knightmare made more sprites than absolutely necessary. They must be taken from elsewhere, probably Era of Chaos.
I don't know where they are from, but they look really good.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi » February 17th, 2013, 10:26 am

@Naron
I said that this would not suppress the slowing sound, and would let them defeat the demons who happen to have slow with incredible ease, that I don't want to allow.
I have also said that there is another trick that would not suppress the slowing sound neither, but would not stop the attacks - this possibility is more likely to appear.
I don't know if you've finished chapter 8 or not, but if you have or you are near its end, could you please send me a the save file near its end? I need it to expect the player's strength to attempt to balance chapter 9 somehow.

@RainerT
Your argument about specific changes with leaders is good. I think I will do it.

Regarding the items, what do you exactly want? Less resistances? If you have specific suggestions, you can see the file utils/items_list.cfg in LotI's files, change it how you would like it to be (because you appear to know more about the long-term strategy of the campaign than me, if I was replying it all the time I would never do anything; it should be understandable enough, but it is quite significantly different from usual WML), and send it back to me. You can also try to add some items.

I might reduce the magical damages of enemies in chapters 7 and 8.

Regarding the leeches ability, okay, I will make it leech only enemies. And btw it is not a property of the Malice crafting recipe, the descriptions are always correct because they are generated accordingly to the properties, and if something was wrong with showing abilities, I would have noticed it long ago.

Naron
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Naron » February 17th, 2013, 10:51 am

@Dugi: yes, I finished Chapter VIII. I send save file via private message or attach here?

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi » February 17th, 2013, 11:39 am

It does not matter. Btw, on which LotI version have you started chapter 7? Was the cooldown for redeem introduced there already (it was sometime in the middle of January)?

Naron
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Naron » February 17th, 2013, 12:01 pm

Dugi wrote:It does not matter.
OK, I attach here. I'm afraid I'm not a typical player for your campaign. You should take my case as one of the worst. By the way, I play on easy mode.
Dugi wrote: Btw, on which LotI version have you started chapter 7? Was the cooldown for redeem introduced there already (it was sometime in the middle of January)?
Honestly, I do not remember it because I frequently updated your campaign. But the scenario Another Orcish Assault was completed on 9 december 2012. That tells you something?
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gfgtdf
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by gfgtdf » February 17th, 2013, 3:32 pm

hi i have some questions:
1. could you make skillbooks be available after turn 2?
2. when i select "smash it into random gem" i got a message telling me "armor" or something i suppose that was for debug.
3. Can i change the dificuly of the game between the scenarios by changing difficulty="NORMAL" to difficulty="HARD"in the savegamefile or do i mess somthing up with that?

EDIT: the shadowwalker has the following advancements:

Code: Select all


    [advancement]
        max_times=5
        id=sword3
        description= _ "better with sword"
        image="attacks/saber-human.png"
        strict_amla=yes
        require_amla="sword,sword2"
	   [effect]
		apply_to=attack
		name=sword
		increase_damage=1
	  [/effect]
	{AMLA_DEFAULT_BONUSES}
    [/advancement]
    [advancement]
        max_times=10
        id=sword2
        description= _ "better with sword"
        image="attacks/saber-human.png"
        strict_amla=yes
        require_amla="sword"
	   [effect]
		apply_to=attack
		name=saber
		increase_damage=1
	  [/effect]
	{AMLA_DEFAULT_BONUSES}
    [/advancement]

but one of the doesnt't do anything.
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi » February 17th, 2013, 7:56 pm

@Naron Unfortunately, your save files were too old, from times when the later parts of the game were grossly unbalanced, so it would not help me to estimate it.

Has somebody around started and finished chapters 7 and 8 recently (last month)?

@gtgtdf
1. Skill books might be made available after turn 2, there is no reason why they should not.
2. Correctly, I left there a piece of code formerly used for debugging.
3. I think yes, but I have never tried it. In wesnoth 1.11 you can change the difficulty, so it should not be overly complex, letting me assume that it should be just changing that line in the save file. If it would work, the change would take place only after finishing the scenario and starting another.

And yes, there is a bug in shadowalker's advancements, it will be fixed.

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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by gfgtdf » February 17th, 2013, 9:53 pm

about efraims advancement: it is wantet that some give mor +exp than others? the ones that are definded in the efraim file have GREATER_AMLA_DEFAULT_BONUSES an the ones in AMLA_GOD have only IMPROVED_AMLA_DEFAULT_BONUSES
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi » February 17th, 2013, 10:07 pm

Damn, that wasn't intended. All of his advancements should have had IMPROVED_AMLA_DEFAULT_BONUSES.

Feareth
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Feareth » February 18th, 2013, 5:26 pm

I just have to ask why on earth did you give those fire mages explosive damage for chapter 4

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi » February 18th, 2013, 6:21 pm

Storyline reasons - the mages in that time were incredibly wise and powerful.
Gameplay reasons - variety of enemies.

Feareth
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Feareth » February 19th, 2013, 2:56 am

As i cant get past the assassination part (have to wait for another update cause of dialogue) i do have a question about the chapter are we preventing the invasion of the unkown from happening as well since we are attempting to stop the second sun from being risen by the humans?

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi » February 19th, 2013, 8:59 am

Faereth wrote:As i cant get past the assassination part (have to wait for another update cause of dialogue)
Dailin said he fixed that problem and was waiting for the Apples to check the source code more than a month ago, and the Apples should be able to check it in a shorter period of time (according to him, it should have been only like two weeks).

Anyway, I haven't found any excessively long dialogue in neither of the two assassination related scenarios in chapter 4 (The Way of the Assassins and The Kinslayer), can you tell me where exactly it was?

And yes, you are trying to prevent the corruption of elves (not actually the Invasion from the Unknown, just a story mentioned in Invasion from the Unknown and Under the Burning Suns, that shortly after the Fall, the elves of Wesmere started worshipping a demon lord named Zhangor (previously named Yanqui, but for some reasons it was changed), and that in a terrible elvish brotherslaying war, the worshippers of Zhangor were killed, but the whole forest of Wesmere was burned to cinders; it was mentioned in scenarios The Source of Light (Invasion from the Unknown) and Speaking with the Fishes (Under the Burning Suns)), but this corruption of elves was foretold in LotI chapter 3, mentioned that it will happen after the creation of the second sun - so stopping the creation of the second sun, possibly destroying the whole civilisation that was capable of doing that would surely significantly delay the demonic corruption (and also the second sun itself would cause cataclysmatic changes, like you could see in Under the Burning Suns or you will see in later parts of LotI).

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