"The fellowship of the Clay" Humans gaining ground story

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Reval
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Re: "The fellowhip of the Clay" Humans gaining ground story

Post by Reval » February 1st, 2011, 1:56 am

lu_zero wrote:I found the whole campaign quite nice and I'm looking forward to see sc9 =)

Great work =)
Thanks! We are glad that you enjoy the campaign!
Scenario9 is in testing now and we'll upload it as soon as we are sure that there are at least no obvious errors in it. :D

I'm afraid that scenario 10 and 11 will take some time though.
Especially Harriett's ability to teleport another unit seems very hard to implemet. In fact we have no real clue yet. Maybe some has an idea?!?

And for scenario 10 we will try something unusual:
Spoiler:
lu_zero wrote:PS: I downloaded it today from the addon server and the dismount-1hp is still there ^^;
Grrr - hope that the next update will finally fix it.
It will fix mounted Clydes inspire for sure though (now he only had a lvl2 inspire when he was mounted)
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Re: "The fellowhip of the Clay" Humans gaining ground story

Post by bigkahuna » February 1st, 2011, 2:13 pm

Reval wrote:Especially Harriett's ability to teleport another unit seems very hard to implemet. In fact we have no real clue yet. Maybe some has an idea?!?
Does she teleport them by right-clicking on them and then choosing the hex, or by a real ability that moves the unit she wishes to teleport through villages?

EDIT: Also, what about adjacency, range, length, etc. You need more details if you are going to implement it.
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Re: "The fellowhip of the Clay" Humans gaining ground story

Post by Reval » February 1st, 2011, 2:18 pm

bigkahuna wrote: Does she teleport them by right-clicking on them and then choosing the hex, or by a real ability that moves the unit she wishes to teleport through villages?
As I imagine it, I would say that there is a rigth click menu just to activate her ability. Doing so should use up all her MP. If activated, she should act as a village for a silver mage i.e. a normal unit should be able to "run into her" and exit another village you own.
As I say, I think about other options too but the above idea seems to have the advantage that it wouldn't be completly overpowerd and similar to what one knows from the silver mages. It does seem to be complex though.
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Re: "The fellowhip of the Clay" Humans gaining ground story

Post by king_scrooge » February 8th, 2011, 1:16 am

I enjoyed playing the next scenario!
There seems to be a missing image in the dwarfish runesmith's attack. Also, when feyndwarf dismounts he still has 1hp :/
Other than these two problems it was great fun!
~KS

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Re: "The fellowhip of the Clay" Humans gaining ground story

Post by Reval » February 8th, 2011, 6:03 pm

king_scrooge wrote:I enjoyed playing the next scenario!
There seems to be a missing image in the dwarfish runesmith's attack. Also, when feyndwarf dismounts he still has 1hp :/
Other than these two problems it was great fun!
Hach, Feyndwarf seems a little stuborn about dismounting his new friend. :wink:

You did not have an error regarding the objective (missing)in Sc10, right?
Since it seems to appear randomly on Ceres and me, on which OS do you play?
Thanks for the feedback, we'll have to look at the attack annimation which should be as in the mainline.
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Re: "The fellowhip of the Clay" Humans gaining ground story

Post by Ceres » February 25th, 2011, 6:21 pm

Finally another update!
-scenario 10 was added
-the bug with Feyndwarf having only 1 hp after dismounting is removed
-fixed a bug in scenario 3, the dismount radius wasn't updated when Clyde tries to ride into the forest.
-fixed animations for the runesmith line (well runemaster and arcanister don't have animations)
Probably some other minor fixes too which I cannot remember right now.
What is still unsolved:
-when Feyndwarf is mounting or dismounting, his max hp are changing for some reason (~39-52)
-once Clyde disappeared in scenario 7 without a reason, but this did not reoccur

Since scenario 10 is just a 1v1 fight, we're open for any other ideas how to make this fight more interesting :)

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Re: "The fellowhip of the Clay" Humans gaining ground story

Post by bvanevery » March 10th, 2011, 6:00 am

For some reason, Undo moves is not working in scenario 2. Do you have an event preventing that?

The diction of the dialogue is good; it is flowery and period. However, many words are spoken to no purpose. What are the themes of this story? How does the plot serve any particular themes? What about character? How do their natures push the story forwards? You have a good premise, this bargain of the Clay, but in the first 2 scenarios you've done nothing with it. What you do have is light, eloquent dialogue that doesn't really mean anything. The relationship between the King and his son starts to be set up, and seems like it could have relevance, but again nothing is said about the Clay. Of course you want things about Snowflake, but that shouldn't be the extent of what you're trying to accomplish at the beginning. You've got a bigger story to tell, and errands to elves and dwarves isn't telling it.
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Re: "The fellowhip of the Clay" Humans gaining ground story

Post by Reval » March 10th, 2011, 11:09 am

bvanevery wrote:For some reason, Undo moves is not working in scenario 2. Do you have an event preventing that?

The diction of the dialogue is good; it is flowery and period. However, many words are spoken to no purpose. What are the themes of this story? How does the plot serve any particular themes? What about character? How do their natures push the story forwards? You have a good premise, this bargain of the Clay, but in the first 2 scenarios you've done nothing with it. What you do have is light, eloquent dialogue that doesn't really mean anything. The relationship between the King and his son starts to be set up, and seems like it could have relevance, but again nothing is said about the Clay. Of course you want things about Snowflake, but that shouldn't be the extent of what you're trying to accomplish at the beginning. You've got a bigger story to tell, and errands to elves and dwarves isn't telling it.
Until which scenario have you played?
Because I agree that the story isn't pushed forward very quickly in the first few scenarios. The reason is that these scenarios mainly serve to set up the precoditions and introduce our heros (Sc2 Merdor and Lorelei, Sc3 Legomir and Walklas, Sc5 the dwarven gang and Sc6 Feyndwarf). The pace and the situation (especially with the clay) changes radically in scenario 7 however. So I guess that your questions become at least partially answerd when you have played until scenario 8. Notify us if you think I am wrong about that. :-)
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Re: "The fellowhip of the Clay" Humans gaining ground story

Post by Ceres » March 10th, 2011, 2:41 pm

bvanevery wrote:For some reason, Undo moves is not working in scenario 2. Do you have an event preventing that?
If the moved one was Clyde, then yes. He has to be stored after each move to make his dismount ability working correctly.

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Re: "The fellowhip of the Clay" Humans gaining ground story

Post by bvanevery » March 10th, 2011, 3:13 pm

Ceres wrote:
bvanevery wrote:For some reason, Undo moves is not working in scenario 2. Do you have an event preventing that?
If the moved one was Clyde, then yes. He has to be stored after each move to make his dismount ability working correctly.
It wasn't Clyde. It was other units. You've got some kind of Undo pathology.
Until which scenario have you played?
This time around, only to 2. I've previously played to 3, a long time ago when 3 wasn't winnable.
Because I agree that the story isn't pushed forward very quickly in the first few scenarios. The reason is that these scenarios mainly serve to set up the precoditions and introduce our heros (Sc2 Merdor and Lorelei, Sc3 Legomir and Walklas, Sc5 the dwarven gang and Sc6 Feyndwarf). The pace and the situation (especially with the clay) changes radically in scenario 7 however. So I guess that your questions become at least partially answerd when you have played until scenario 8. Notify us if you think I am wrong about that. :-)
I would say that from the standpoint of making a compelling narrative, you should fix this. When you go to see a movie, the movie doesn't wait around for half the movie just to introduce characters, not really mentioning why they're characters or why they're important. The movie gets on with the action! There is no sense of purpose or urgency in the first 2 scenarios. Clyde is sent on errands; he could be going for groceries. Could be exotic groceries that dwarves and elves provide, and maybe he has to hack his way to the store, but groceries nevertheless. Make the errand about the Clay.
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Re: "The fellowhip of the Clay" Humans gaining ground story

Post by Reval » March 10th, 2011, 5:08 pm

bvanevery wrote: I would say that from the standpoint of making a compelling narrative, you should fix this. When you go to see a movie, the movie doesn't wait around for half the movie just to introduce characters, not really mentioning why they're characters or why they're important. The movie gets on with the action! There is no sense of purpose or urgency in the first 2 scenarios. Clyde is sent on errands; he could be going for groceries. Could be exotic groceries that dwarves and elves provide, and maybe he has to hack his way to the store, but groceries nevertheless. Make the errand about the Clay.
You could regard the first scenarios as the first minutes of a Bond-movie (or most other action movies) - which most often serve the purpose of showing how capable the heros are. True, in a movie its only about a fifth of the time and not about a third but movies work different then games here: Players have to be made familiar with the specialties of this quite different units.

Another point is that I realy wanted to have this dramatugie: Starting in a more or less euphoric atmosphere until the clash comes. Than again, it is not that Clydes actions are in any way interchangeable with some other actions. His quest is of political and diplomatic importance and he "accidently" assembles his fellowship.
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Re: "The fellowhip of the Clay" Humans gaining ground story

Post by bvanevery » March 10th, 2011, 5:44 pm

Reval wrote:
bvanevery wrote:The movie gets on with the action!
You could regard the first scenarios as the first minutes of a Bond-movie (or most other action movies)
No I couldn't. Not enough action. Too much talk between the king and son. There's no dramatic tension in it; it says, "Hi! We are affable characters with good diction. We're going to go on some errands now!" Bond it ain't. A Bond movie will rivet you to your seat. It will scream at you why you want to watch this movie / play this game.

Part of the problem is scenario 1 is far too easy. I realize you're writing an intermediate (?) level campaign, but for an expert like myself, it's a simple matter of moving the peasants around, creating a screen, and waiting for all the orcs to die. Scenario 2 is actually much better at providing immediate conflict. At least I actually had to think about my tactics, because of the mobility of the mermen and salamanders. That said, I knew I had overwhelming gold available and couldn't possibly lose.
- which most often serve the purpose of showing how capable the heros are. True, in a movie its only about a fifth of the time and not about a third but movies work different then games here: Players have to be made familiar with the specialties of this quite different units.
Movies don't work any differently than games here. Riveting is riveting. If you want to see how it's done, play "To Lands Unknown." That's how you start "Bond style."

You can do it too, it's not just my ego talking. I didn't write that first scene either. You have the strong story concept of the Clay. Use it, and stop beating around the bush.
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Re: "The fellowhip of the Clay" Humans gaining ground story

Post by Reval » March 17th, 2011, 11:22 am

bvanevery wrote:Part of the problem is scenario 1 is far too easy. I realize you're writing an intermediate (?) level campaign, but for an expert like myself, it's a simple matter of moving the peasants around, creating a screen, and waiting for all the orcs to die. Scenario 2 is actually much better at providing immediate conflict. At least I actually had to think about my tactics, because of the mobility of the mermen and salamanders. That said, I knew I had overwhelming gold available and couldn't possibly lose.
As said multiple times, scenario 1 is an introductory/tutorial scenario. In some cases the setting up of a story is done with a dialogue-only-scenario. I think it wouldn't be wise to start a campaign with a very difficult sceanrio especially if it introduces a new game concept which with players have to be familiarised. Though this is my very own opinion it matters because the campaign is the baby of Ceres and me. :)

I also find it strange that you propose a higher dificulty level for the campaign while apparently playing on the normal difficulty. Especially the first three scenarios have been balanced by your contribution: You only need to move a few peasants, there are more orcs and on "hard" I do find it quite difficult to protect all upper peasants while staying alive...

Then again, some things are probably a matter of taste and I like the way the storytelling progresses quite a lot. Thus, the best I can do is to urge you to give the campaign some more time and play further - maybe it catches you after all, maybe it doesn't. Independent from the "pace" of the campaign, I think that it has a lot to offer to expirenced players too - mainly due to the new game concepts we introduce.

Finally, Ceres is removing the last couple of bugs for the next release which will include scenario 11 and where Harriett with her new ability is playable for the first time. ^_^

Have fun

Reval
Last edited by Reval on March 17th, 2011, 5:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: "The fellowhip of the Clay" Humans gaining ground story

Post by Battlecruiser_Venca » March 17th, 2011, 11:36 am

Yeah, I like the intro first scenarios, so you know, what's going on. For me it is fun to play this campaign :wink:

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Re: "The fellowhip of the Clay" Humans gaining ground story

Post by Reval » March 20th, 2011, 5:38 pm

Ups, just made the update to 0.5.1 and only then I discovered that the add-on doesn't start as it is right now. We work on it and I will upload a working version soon.

Edit: Update to 0.5.2 just fixed that and Ceres will post a changelog soon.
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