Possible Chaotic Unit Campaign

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Mordocai
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Re: Possible Chaotic Unit Campaign

Post by Mordocai »

Dixie wrote:Having thought a wee bit about your storyline, it feels to me that your main character lacks motivation. And I find the "greed and power hungry" thing to be... bland, maybe? Sure, he follows his mentor at first, but why would he switch over to the good guys? And why in the world would he want to rule the kingdom? Maybe seizing the throne is just a side effect of whatever he's trying to accomplish (lenghtening nights/preventing the "good guys" from creating a third sun?). Like, maybe he needs the king's crown, the scepter of fire, the left earlobe of the king's third son, or something?

Here's a general story outline idea (hope you don't feel like I'm investing myself too much in this; it's your story, your project, you do whatever you want with it. Final decision is yours, of course)

Maybe he is a really hateful guy, and while at first he wants to have revenge on humans/elves/anything for abandonning him (following his mentor's influence), maybe his brethren turn on him for some reason (maybe he's the mentor's pet and they want it to look favorably at them, maybe they just want to seize his power, maybe they see him as a concurrent to some goal). Then he could make a pact with the humans so they help him getting rid of the other necromancers, with something in exchange (maybe some village to kill and raise, maybe gold, although it is unfitting, maybe a powerful artifact). Then, the humans turn on him, he flees, and while seeking a way to take revenge, his mentor (which survived) tell him of the two-suns thing and "project for a third sun" (you'll have to double check this project actually exists). He then tell him of an artifact. Once he get it, maybe he needs a royal heirloom, or just be in the throne room for the ceremony, or something. Being vastly outnumbered, he could get an ally (either a surviving brethren, or an orc warchief could be fitting too). Said ally would want to seize power, and once they seize the capital (and maybe after the night-ritual-thing), said ally turns on him, so he's sure to have no competition.

Then, depends on how you want to conclude the campaign, but I feel like "he justs rules the kingdom" is a bit lame. Although maybe you don't want to make him die or lose in the end... It could maybe end with some human mage/his mentor/his temporary ally invoking Eloh and her hordes of demons, because he had planned it all along/to save his stuff. Now maybe you'd feel like having a battle against these demons, but your hero couldn't really totally win since it would go against the storyline of other campaigns. A solution would be to have him just survive eternally in some swamp/cave, but to me it feels too alike to Descent into Darkness. I'm not really sure what could happen besides that and him dying. Maybe turning himself into a tatue so he survives the ages until the magic fades?... Or depending on what your being told in UtsB and Invasion from the Unknown story-wise, maybe he somehow becomes Eloh himself? Like, possess her, or she didn't exist and he somehow managed to transcend his nature to become it? Maybe he doesn't battle the demon hordes at all, but rather his mentor (without having told him beforehand) uses the main character's body to invoke Eloh (who he becomes) and invokes hordes of demons... Although I wouldn't know why the mentor wouldn't want to be Eloh himself. Maybe the soul is lost? Maybe he has some control over it? But then he would appear in UtbS...

I dunno. Just some ideas thrown out there, if there's anything you think you can put to good use :)

A lot of good ideas I think. I kind've like the idea of her "becoming" Eloh in some way. See my above post for an idea about a new starting point!

P.S. Don't worry about giving too many ideas :). I'm trying to make something that I, as well as everyone else, will like so I need as much input as possible!

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boru
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Re: Possible Chaotic Unit Campaign

Post by boru »

Mordocai wrote:Yeah, the problem is that her already knowing necromancy would be kind of bland in my opinion... I definitely see your point though. I suppose I could do kind of the opposite... perhaps she starts out with good necromancy but starts losing her powers? So, she has to find an artifact to restore her powers. That could be the first part of the campaign. Perhaps it's a powerful artifact so she has to fight other rivals/one of her rivals has it. Then she gets her necromancy back and goes on with the objective to lengthen the night. Does that sound interesting to you?
Yes, as long as she doesn't go on another artifact quest later. A protagonist in decline is always more interesting and sympathetic than one who's on their way to glory. (That's one of the reasons I couldn't give the Harry Potter films a fair shake: one of the first scenes is a bunch of characters talking about how great he's going to become. *yawn*)
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My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.

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Mordocai
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Re: Possible Chaotic Unit Campaign

Post by Mordocai »

Okay, so here's an idea i've been tossing around since our last posts:

If mage academy is still around during this time period:
Protagonist was found at an early age to have an amazing amount of magical potential and is taken to the mage academy to learn. The mages are very keen to keep her "good" so they tell her all about how Necromancy/Dark magic is evil and terrible etc. However, this just makes her interested. Her being interested in this, plus the mages being overbearing and having too many rules (she has problems with authority), contributes to her running away at a still young age. She runs away to the Swamps of <insert menacing name here> where it is said many spirits lurk. With the help of the spirits and other denizens of the swamp, plus her own ingenuity, she is able to learn necromancy and comes to rule the entire swamp and defends it against any outsiders. However, the mages eventually send someone to destroy her, not knowing who she really is, just that she is a dangerous necromancer.
If no mage academy is still around:
Basically the same idea except she is found by a wandering mage of light/White mage and taught. Everything else essentially the same, the mage comes to fight her as she is a powerful necromancer. He/She doesn't know who it is until the battle begins.
In the battle that ensues (probably player's first scenario) she is cursed/her magic drained/some other effect that causes her to start slowly losing her control over her creatures. She asks help from the spirits, and learns of some means of restoring her powers. She must gain the allegiance of other creatures (Probably trolls/orcs/naga, maybe others) in order to make do without her powers. She thinks her apprentice knows next to nothing about necromancy, only able to summon walking corpses (so you have those). However, he turns on her during the quest and she must defeat him with her Trolls/orcs/naga. After this, she completes her power restoration. The campaign continues with her somehow lengthening the night, probably as repayment to the spirit that helped her. (Thinking it could become her adviser/already had been her adviser).

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Dixie
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Re: Possible Chaotic Unit Campaign

Post by Dixie »

Mordocai wrote:Okay, so here's an idea i've been tossing around since our last posts:

If mage academy is still around during this time period:
Protagonist was found at an early age to have an amazing amount of magical potential and is taken to the mage academy to learn. The mages are very keen to keep her "good" so they tell her all about how Necromancy/Dark magic is evil and terrible etc. However, this just makes her interested. Her being interested in this, plus the mages being overbearing and having too many rules (she has problems with authority), contributes to her running away at a still young age. She runs away to the Swamps of <insert menacing name here> where it is said many spirits lurk. With the help of the spirits and other denizens of the swamp, plus her own ingenuity, she is able to learn necromancy and comes to rule the entire swamp and defends it against any outsiders. However, the mages eventually send someone to destroy her, not knowing who she really is, just that she is a dangerous necromancer.
IIRC, that's pretty much the beginning of "Descent Into Darkness", except that the swamp is replaced by Malin (DiD's main character)'s home town. So... I think I prefered the version where she starts alone with her adviser. Maybe you could start with 1-4 scenarios for her rise to power, for exemple:
sc1: Cinematic scenario to establish the setting a bit;
sc2-3: Defeat of rivals/annexing neightboring tribes of something (saurians, perhaps, or human village, or outlaw gang)
sc4: playable or cinematic, to show neighboring villages being concerned by the growing necromancer's power in close-by swamp. Or a royal envoy or something...

Then, from there, with the project for the third sun/night slowly fading, her powers could fade, and with each passing scenario, recruiting/recalling undead units could cost more and more, until she finds some artifact (black jem?).
By the way, maybe with this artifact, I still think defeated unit leaving corpses behind and the character raising them by being next to them and using a right-clic menu option would be awesome. It would defenitely reinforce the feeling of raising the dead!

Also by the way, I had thought of the orcs being an allied AI, not necessarily recruitable orcs, but I guess it can work too, depends on your preferences.
Other thoughts: maybe the night ritual thing requires that the black necromantic gem be substitued to the Scepter of Fire's red gem? Or Scepter smashed with black gem, annihilating both artifacts? (the substitution sounds better, imo, less irreversible for people who would like to reuse the scepter in later set campaigns. I don't know if it appears in Invasion From the Unknown?)

Yet more other random thoughts: Main character could somehow be a descendant from Konrad and Li'Sar (a [censored] somewhere or something), or from whoever in the royal family ever defeated a powerful lich (with the mentor being the lich in question). Or maybe the mentor even manage to steal a bone or something from that royal foe, and consume part of its remaining power to grow it into a baby (main character), for the supreme irony of it's foe's rebirth form causing its descendants demise. And in the end, the mentor wouldn't care sacrificing the hero for his demon-thing anywya, since hero is it's royal enemy. And to explain the hero becoming Eloh and not the mentor, maybe the ritual uses up all of its remaining power, or passes through the sacrifice's body (the hero's) to materialise... Leading to a last scenario/scene where Hero/Eloh gets revenge on the mentor? Could be a nice twist at the end, in any case.

Also, if the hero is gonna become Eloh: I think Eloh's Home/summoning place is some island off-shore where there used to be a magic academy or something (Which, in turn, could be pretty ironic if it was somehow where she studied, if you don't flush that part) So maybe you have to first wreck havoc in the kingdom to get the scepter of fire, and then have a few scenarios to get to that island? You really have to play UtBS to make sure :P

So umm... I feel my ideas are conflictual, since at first I say the academy is maybe not such a good way, than at the end I say it could be cool... But I really don't know how to settle that matter. Maybe just find another start for your campaign, flushing the first 2-4 scenarios for rising to power in the swamps... Maybe she is at the academy, and goes on a mission or pilgrimage with an elder mage or something, and then are aborded by the mentor (who actually created the hero in the first place, and uses that bond to entice/corrupt her?), and they betray the elder mage? This, in time, could provide an interesting conflict for the main character's development, inexplicably drawn toward the mentor and dark arts, but at the same time having grown at the school and tortured by their assassination of the Elder Mage...

I'll stop here for now, if I get other ideas, I'll some back :) I think this is getting along well, you just really need to check historical references for names/places/makes sure of some events, so your scenario is rock-solid :)
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Feufochmar
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Re: Possible Chaotic Unit Campaign

Post by Feufochmar »

Other thoughts: maybe the night ritual thing requires that the black necromantic gem be substitued to the Scepter of Fire's red gem? Or Scepter smashed with black gem, annihilating both artifacts? (the substitution sounds better, imo, less irreversible for people who would like to reuse the scepter in later set campaigns. I don't know if it appears in Invasion From the Unknown?)
According to this, Elynia has the Ruby of Fire in Invasion from the Unknown. But this wiki page is not part of official history. Bad Moon Rising and Trinity could also contradict what is on this page about the second sun.

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Dixie
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Re: Possible Chaotic Unit Campaign

Post by Dixie »

Well, that page is pretty interesting. scraps quite a few ideas I gave earlier, but still, it helps to have some form of base history. Though I would tend to consider Invasion From the Unknown, I would mostly disregard Bad Moon Rising: although it is a great campaign, it contradicts wesnoth Lore on many points and is not mainline, whereas UtbS is mainline and shows the two suns.

Anyway, no more ideas for the time being :P Take what you will, Mordocal, read that page, and decide what you'd like :)
Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny - Frank Zappa
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Mordocai
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Re: Possible Chaotic Unit Campaign

Post by Mordocai »

Dixie wrote:Well, that page is pretty interesting. scraps quite a few ideas I gave earlier, but still, it helps to have some form of base history. Though I would tend to consider Invasion From the Unknown, I would mostly disregard Bad Moon Rising: although it is a great campaign, it contradicts wesnoth Lore on many points and is not mainline, whereas UtbS is mainline and shows the two suns.

Anyway, no more ideas for the time being :P Take what you will, Mordocal, read that page, and decide what you'd like :)
Okay, well... a lot to think about. I'll play all the mainline campaigns and maybe Invasion from the Unknown as well... and read up. Probably ask around IRC about the lore too. After all that, i'll get a full idea written and see what everyone thinks (i'll just update this post and then post a notice of the update so that it shows up on the first page again).

Thanks for all your ideas!

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markm
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Re: Possible Chaotic Unit Campaign

Post by markm »

There was a campaign called War of Time, that has not made it to version 1.8 yet. It has been seized upon by Time Cadets as an example of if not actual tampering with the timeline(s) of Wesnoth then at least some kind of plot plan or intent to tamper or meddle with such timeline(s).

The matter of turning a planet into a desert planet is can or could be a major "nexus" or "crux" in mortal-humanoid destiny, fate, development etc. There are those who, for reasons they consider quite compelling, are intensely interested in desert planets. Possibly to the extent of deliberately engineering the creation of such a planet.

Meanwhile, observe the Terrador timeline(s): another plot to cause planetary-scale disaster?

Space Cadets might not concern themselves o'ermuch with such considerations, but Time Cadets are quite interested in any plans surrounding the Burning Suns Nexus...

-MarkM-
Developing Between the Worlds campaign portmanteau.
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