Roar of the Woses

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Alarantalara
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Roar of the Woses

Post by Alarantalara » May 2nd, 2010, 2:55 pm

Roar of the Woses is a medium length (10-11 scenarios + 1 dialog) campaign featuring saurians and nagas as the protagonists. It also features a few new units and unusual underground water terrain.
Maintenance has caused the gameplay for the 1.8 and 1.9 versions to diverge. Only bug fixes are currently applied to the 1.8 version.

There is a partial translation into French: in the 1.8 version, all objectives and decisions are translated so it should be possible to complete without knowing the story.

There is a feedback thread.

Original post:
I have posted the first 6 scenarios of Roar of the Woses to the add-ons server.

Scenarios 1-4 are complete enough that I would like comments on anything in them.
For scenario 3, since it is randomly generated, I especially need to know about problems with map layout. If you have problems with the map, please post a save game so I can figure out where the generator went wrong. I've tried to make sure that it won't create an unwinnable map, but I may have missed something.
Scenario 5 is currently a little boring tactically: I'm currently trying to figure out how to make it more interesting. I'm mostly interested in story comments for this one.
Scenario 6 is currently lacking dialogue. Only gameplay comments for this one please.

If you have comments on the new terrain, please post it in one of these threads, as appropriate:
For the waterfalls: post here
For other terrain: this thread
Last edited by Alarantalara on May 9th, 2011, 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Roar of the Woses

Post by Alarantalara » June 5th, 2010, 8:00 pm

Due to an oversight in the original version, I've uploaded a new one a little earlier than planned.
It moves the custom terrains into their own group to avoid confusion.
Other changes include:
A new scenario (incomplete but playable, if confusing).
A new recruitable unit for scenario 5.
Increased difficulty in hard on some levels.
A little more terrain decoration.

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Re: Roar of the Woses

Post by Waxwood » June 21st, 2010, 2:48 am

I haven't quite finished all the playabe scenarios yet but I'd like to leave some feedback none the less. Firstly, I really like it so far, there are some very creative scenarios and objectives that keep this campaign very interesting, well done! I'll put my thoughts on each scenario below, played thourgh on the normal difficulty. Also, bear with me as I my thoughts are quite unordered, often nit-picky and I have no experience with any form of campaign development so I may not suggest easy/possible things.

The first scenario was very good. I liked the turnaround in objectives and it was good to see it happen so soon so we don't actually get involved in killing each other first. Perhaps delaying the human and orc's arrival by another turn, though, would increase the tension between the nagas and saurians. I fear this scenario is a tad easy. The humans and orcs are evenly matched so if you leave them to fight each other for a few turns then this becomes a very easy scenario. Also, I don't know if its possible to fix but the ai for the naga side seems way too aggressive (ie. they lost all their troops in charging onto dry land to attack the orcs). Again, I don't know if this is fixable without making them completely useless.

Some dialogue comments: When the humans arrive they say the land is "well drained" - most of the map is swamp, how can it be well drained? When I killed the human leader and he mentioned the dam, there needs to be an immediate response. Perhpas consider moving the end dialogue to this point, followed by something like "but first we need to deal with these orcs." There should also be some random bickering between the saurians and the nagas. It seems odd that they become friends so quickly.


I really liked the second scenario. This is one of the scenarios that wasn't a straightforward attack and kill the enemies type of scenario (I did that anyway but that's just me!). Any scenarios with alternate style objectives are good in my eyes and this one was fun on top of being just different! Completing the objectives and keeping off the enemy soldiers was almost too easy for normal difficulty - although having a tougher guard (such as a spearman) on one or two of the villages on the left of the dam could make it hit the sweet spot for difficulty.

As for dialogue: Just like the first scenario, more dialogue explaining the actions of the characters would be nice. It would be best to hear something from the human leader at the start, maybe he can talk to his soldiers a bit. For example: "Soldiers, protect the dam and the workers. We cannot allow these lizards to destroy the dam wall." And also have him mention sending away for reinforcements - a further indication that we can't actually destroy the dam at the moment and foreshadowing for the next scenario. Along with this, if the turn limit is reached then general Turgath from the next scenario could appear with a bunch of soldiers. Feel free to ignore that but to me it feels better than your current choice (see beginning text on scenario 3 - they raid for several months)


The third scenario was another very well done scenario. With clear directions once you find the cave (suggestion: add a line to Kylix in the start-of-scenario chat to say that we definitely should be retreating because they will surely be killed if they stay and fight. The map randomly generated for me was fine, no problems with the layout or the couple of monsters scattered here and there. All the urgency to exploring the caves was ruined for me because of a very strange bug with the human side's ai. They always attacked the bats with their melee weapons regardless of terrain defence, time of day or even the availability of range attacks (even the mages attacked the bats with melee every single time they came close to a bat). This let one single bat kill every human coming into the caves for the whole scenario. Without that bat, I surely would have lost as I didn't explore very quickly. Another thing you may consider is reduce the amount of enemy recruits by about half. I know it is supposed to be impossible to fight them but even with half the troops they would easily kill you if you didn't run away. As it is, turns took much longer than necessary. Another bug in this scenario, while watching the replay it continually got corrupted so the replay got all sorts of weird things happening (currently I have an alive augur with -22 health and a fencer is killing a mage). Other than those things this was a very enjoyable scenario.

Dialogue: Not much to say here, dialogue was pretty good in this scenario. Maybe a bit of dialogue when you reach your new home saying how you need to clear it out (skipping from Isarass' line straight to the objective is abrupt.


The fourth scenario was good and at a good difficulty too. No complaints or comments on the gameplay of this one, it was all top notch. However, may I ask a question? How come we ended up in that area at all? The third scenario didn't show any other exits from our new home besides back into the humans and "Several days later..." doesn't explain why they kept moving through the caves after they claimed their "new home". Another thing is we never find out why the orcs are trying to steal the drake's eggs.


The fifth scenario was excellent! This is extremely biased because I really, really like the woses but anyway. Dialogue is good, nothing to say about that here except to ask for some explaining as to why the orcs are here. Gameplay is good too. The sprites die so easily but I like their addition since the woses have no range attacks. One thing to mention though is, I know it says that you are seperated from your army so you cannot recruit saurians or nagas but are you still supposed to be able to recall your veterans? If so then this is a very easy scenario but if not it is about right on the difficulty lines.

That's all I got up to so far. I look forward to the rest of this campaign as it comes (if it comes). I hope my feeedback helps you in some way without being a tiresome bore to read. I can try and fix it up later if you want.

EDIT: Sorry about that, I got a bit carried away and I wrote a fair bit too much.

[Off-topic] Yay first post! [/Off-topic]

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Re: Roar of the Woses

Post by Alarantalara » July 2nd, 2010, 8:08 pm

Edit: Another update. Replaced previous post. Summary of changes from both updates below.

Optimized pngs to reduce file size and gave most of the files a pass through wmllint to catch oversights.

Scenario 1
Increased enemies' income slightly and decreased player's starting gold. I want it to be noticeably easier if the player holds back a few turns though, as it's not necessarily an obvious thing to do.
Delaying the arrival of the real enemies any further gives the nagas time to get there first and get in the way, preventing the humans and orcs from fighting at all.
Changed the terrain slightly to make it a bit easier for the orcs to attack the nagas.

Scenario 2
Added an extra peasant to sound alarm.
Also added some more village guards at normal and hard difficulties.
Took advantage of existing scenery to make nicer destroyed villages - they now provide minimal healing but no income.

Scenario 3
Made Tugarth's recruits level 2: reduces the number to speed gameplay and makes it harder for bats to stop them.

Scenario 4
Kylix and Isarras didn't move at all between scenarios three and four (the starting terrain is the cavern they ended in).
Moved the worldmap path and added some more dialogue to help make this more clear.
Added an extra enemy unit on hard to increase the challenge.

Scenario 5
Removed recalls as well, since they turned out to be unnecessary to win scenario 6.

Scenario 7
Completed.

Scenario 8a
Added missing macros for hero death/unit abilities.

Added scenario 8b -- very, very rough. Much too easy right now. If anyone has a suggestion on how to make it more even for the two allied sides, that would be very appreciated.

Added scenario 8c -- if anything, rougher than 8b. I'm not sure I like the objective in this scenario. If someone gives me an alternative, I will seriously consider it.

Added scenario 9 -- playable but incomplete - current version is intended primarily to test campaign flow.

Added scenario 10 -- not currently winnable because there is no victory condition. The map WILL change in the future. You have been warned.

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Re: Roar of the Woses

Post by Alarantalara » July 20th, 2010, 2:18 am

Because of a plot hole caused by changing scenario 10 to its current form over what I had originally planned, I did not add anything for some time. However, I have decided to ignore it for now and continue to the end, and so the entire campaign is now playable, with the final scenario added.

I still need to provide a plausible reason for the characters to arrive at scenario 10, but it and the final scenario are now playable and completable. Future updates will fill in the many missing details and dialog, as well as adding fun things to find (I have things planned for scenarios 3 and 10, though they aren't implemented yet), and of course, the inevitable balancing.

Enjoy!

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Re: Roar of the Woses

Post by Alarantalara » July 29th, 2010, 4:31 pm

All scenarios are now functionally complete.

To do:
- finish selecting music tracks for scenarios (about 60% complete)
- additional dialog and characterization
- journey tracks for second half
- drowning in The Back Door
- balancing

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boru
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Re: Roar of the Woses

Post by boru » July 31st, 2010, 4:55 pm

I'm playing through your campaign on Easy. It's a lot of fun, although I have been wiped out in every scenario at least once. I'm not sure if that reflects on your campaign or just my dumb idea of strategy, but I think it's a little of both.

I like the four-sided battle in Oxbow Swamp. It does give you the idea that this campaign is going to be different and challenging. My only real criticism on this is that the bulk of your battle goes on in the top 1/4th of the map, so you might benefit from a more even mix of swamp, water and regular land masses.

Into the Depths was extremely fun, although on Easy, you might want to make the Blood Bats into Vampire and also demote the Mudcrawlers. After all, there's still an army of human level 2's after our heroes and a sea serpent or two. By the time my party encountered Murg, they were down to one Myrmidon, one Flanker and a dead Soothsayer (I suppose the dead Soothsayer doesn't count) in addition to Kylex and a badly wounded Isarras who was healing in a far-off village. Well, they got sandwiched between the humans and trolls, only Kylex survived to deal the death blow to Murg.

So I got to see the really nice cave design in the steam caverns, but with no one on my recall list worth recalling, I didn't fare too well. Recruited too many naga, not realizing there isn't a drop of water to be had in this part of the cave. I'm looking forward to seeing more of this one, if I can live through it.
“It is written in my life-blood, such as that is, thick or thin; and I can no other.” - J.R.R. Tolkien

My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.

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Re: Roar of the Woses

Post by Alarantalara » July 31st, 2010, 11:48 pm

boru wrote:I like the four-sided battle in Oxbow Swamp. It does give you the idea that this campaign is going to be different and challenging. My only real criticism on this is that the bulk of your battle goes on in the top 1/4th of the map, so you might benefit from a more even mix of swamp, water and regular land masses.
Dry land is now somewhat larger. It actually seems to make the map a bit harder. i've been considering this for some time, so having someone else suggest it made it happen.
boru wrote: Into the Depths was extremely fun, although on Easy, you might want to make the Blood Bats into Vampire and also demote the Mudcrawlers. After all, there's still an army of human level 2's after our heroes and a sea serpent or two. By the time my party encountered Murg, they were down to one Myrmidon, one Flanker and a dead Soothsayer (I suppose the dead Soothsayer doesn't count) in addition to Kylex and a badly wounded Isarras who was healing in a far-off village. Well, they got sandwiched between the humans and trolls, only Kylex survived to deal the death blow to Murg.
Sounds reasonable. I removed the blood bats, but kept the giant mudcrawlers. I also added some normal ones on easy to keep the other unit quantities the same. The reduction in fast moving bats should make enough of a difference.
boru wrote: So I got to see the really nice cave design in the steam caverns, but with no one on my recall list worth recalling, I didn't fare too well. Recruited too many naga, not realizing there isn't a drop of water to be had in this part of the cave. I'm looking forward to seeing more of this one, if I can live through it.
To help avoid people choosing the wrong recruits, I've revealed the main battle area at game start to provide a hint. If it's not enough, I may also add dialog.

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Re: Roar of the Woses

Post by Alarantalara » August 18th, 2010, 4:50 pm

Complete!

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Re: Roar of the Woses

Post by arobinson » September 6th, 2010, 5:29 am

Thank you for this campaign. One suggestion I would like to make is that, especially in easy difficulty, that the last mission have much less income for the enemies. Being flooded with level 2 recruits that keep being recruited is no fun and attacking on ice to get to the dam is also no joy. I played it several times with different strategies without much luck. You cannot even just stay in the water as the enemy has endless cash.

Also the end lacks any kind of prologue, it would greatly improve the campaign to have one. Thanks for the campaign, it was fun.

BTW, nice flooded cavern tiles, was a nice new terrain.
Running Wesnoth 1.12.4 on Mac OSX 10.10
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Alarantalara
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Re: Roar of the Woses

Post by Alarantalara » September 17th, 2010, 2:48 am

arobinson wrote:Thank you for this campaign. One suggestion I would like to make is that, especially in easy difficulty, that the last mission have much less income for the enemies. Being flooded with level 2 recruits that keep being recruited is no fun and attacking on ice to get to the dam is also no joy. I played it several times with different strategies without much luck. You cannot even just stay in the water as the enemy has endless cash.

Also the end lacks any kind of prologue, it would greatly improve the campaign to have one. Thanks for the campaign, it was fun.
Since the last scenario has a prologue, I assume you mean an epilogue? I suppose I could add one, but it will probably be a while.

Actually, the longer you take on the last level, the harder it gets. The enemy recruiting the level 2 units has ever increasing income. This means that the lack of a turn limit is somewhat deceptive since the scenario may eventually become unwinnable. I have reduced the rate of increase in the version for Wesnoth 1.8.x since it could be rather excessive for Easy difficulty.

I have also played around with the scenario "Into the Depths" some more as a result of reading a complaint about the mainline "Gathering Materials" scenario from SoF. While I did have some always present villages near the start, they got removed by most decorations for terrain just like in SoF. So I changed the mask rules so you can now get villages in more places, including underwater. I've removed some of the always present villages to compensate, so the end of level bonus should be about the same.

Also, a question:
Has anyone used the Haruspex? If so, was it useful, or a waste of time? If no one likes it, I'll probably eventually remove it.

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Re: Roar of the Woses

Post by Glowing Fish » September 17th, 2010, 6:30 pm

I have played this campaign through to the last scenario, but haven't finished it.

I think it is a really good campaign....solid dialogue, story, and diverse scenarios. Although, (and don't take this the wrong way), I don't know if it is a GREAT campaign just yet.

A couple of suggestions: in the first scenario, the ai ally could have its caution turned up and its aggression turned down. It seems that almost all my Naga allies died by going up on land to attack the orcs and humans.

I didn't really get the mission to recruit the poachers and footpads. It seemed kind of like a pointless fetch quest, and really there was no particular reason to go to the expense of fighting a bunch of high-level Elvish units in a forest just so I could recruit poachers.

The mission where I had to fight four different undead leaders also seemed a little off...it was the hardest scenario of the campaign, and as far as I can tell, there was no actual plot reason for it to be there.

Of course, these are just my impressions...
Don't go to Glowing Fish for advice, he will say both yes and no.

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Re: Roar of the Woses

Post by Feufochmar » September 23rd, 2010, 2:30 pm

There is an error in the _main.cfg :

Code: Select all

    first_scenario=01_Oxbow_Swamp
    first_scenario=08a_Poacher_Rescue
You have two lines "first_scenario", so when I start, the first scenario is Poacher Rescue and not Oxbow Swamp.

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Re: Roar of the Woses

Post by Alarantalara » September 23rd, 2010, 9:11 pm

Feufochmar wrote:There is an error in the _main.cfg :

Code: Select all

    first_scenario=01_Oxbow_Swamp
    first_scenario=08a_Poacher_Rescue
You have two lines "first_scenario", so when I start, the first scenario is Poacher Rescue and not Oxbow Swamp.
So there is. I suppose that's my reward for not uploading changes as I make them. I'll correct it as soon as I get to a computer with wesnoth installed. Hopefully, that will be in an hour or two.

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Re: Roar of the Woses

Post by Feufochmar » September 24th, 2010, 9:18 pm

I have finished the campaign (in easy). I've noted a small error in the text : when the leader of the thugs is killed, the message displayed says I cannot recruit poachers anymore. Here, you mean I cannot recruit thugs anymore.
Also, about thugs, footpads and poachers, I found the scenario in which you "recruit" the thugs very easy compared to the two other scenarios. Also, I haven't used footpads or thugs (appart from their leaders) in the two last scenarios. I only used thugs in the undead scenario between the two "recruit" scenarios (and I think I could have avoided recruiting them as the woses have an impact attack).

Like Glowing Fish, I find the "recruit" scenarios rather useless, and I think they are completely useless if you put the undead scenario before the council (as you have the dwarf to indicate another path to go to the dam).

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