Fire-Forged Friends

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Zamael
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Re: Fire-Forged Friends

Post by Zamael »

Then that's got to be in your end: mine's just fine.

This whole rambling is just wasting precious time from both of us that could be used for something much better.
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SkyOne
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Re: Fire-Forged Friends

Post by SkyOne »

Okay, remove your contents from the campaigns folder, then try this one.

Edit:
Zamael wrote:And how was the map file wrong? It's not supposed to be.
You have to determine the location of the side leader, like player-1,2. You have six leaders, so you need player-1 to 6 on the map file.
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Zamael
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Re: Fire-Forged Friends

Post by Zamael »

Okay, I did the relevant changes to my own files, based on yours, and replaced my maps with your versions, if they'd be somehow different. It didn't work.

Then I decided to just copy-paste your entire folder and replace it with mine, and it started to give a whole bunch of error messages again.

Then I put back my own original folder, only replacing the map files, and copy-pasting back my original cfg files, with whatever relevant changes done. It still gives error messages.

Now I no longer have any friggin' idea which of the files are right and which aren't and what the hell I'm supposed to do. Geez.

What do those .DS_Store files do, anyway? They never appear in any other campaigns.
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SkyOne
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Re: Fire-Forged Friends

Post by SkyOne »

Just remove your campaign from your campaigns folder, then re-download and re-install my zipping file. It will work.
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Zamael
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Re: Fire-Forged Friends

Post by Zamael »

No it won't.

Even when I removed all the relevant files, the whole game doesn't work. It [censored] up something inside permanently. (Oh hey this forum has a swear filter that actually works. Cool.)

I am reinstalling the game as we speak.

I will continue doing the scripts and maps (I hope I didn't lose any map files there), but I will not touch coding again. It wasted several hours of my time, and no matter what I tried, something always went wrong.

So unless some brave soul is willing to pick up the project, this whole thing is now officially dead. As far as I'm concerned, Fire-Forged Friends will never be playable.

I'm sorry if I have disappointed anyone or if you think I gave up too soon.
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Re: Fire-Forged Friends

Post by Zamael »

No wait, it actually works!

I assume this is the one SkyOne gave me. It took a whole reinstall of the game, and all the characters start from completely wrong places, and all my awesome events and stuff were sacrificed. But it did run.

Funny how life goes. Now I just need to get everything else in place. How am I supposed to do that?
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Zamael
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Re: Fire-Forged Friends

Post by Zamael »

Okay, I played it through. Stuff to be fixed, roughly in this order:

- I can't actually walk to the spot that ends the campaign. This is bad.
- Way too easy. The orcs in front of us could barely slow us down, while the one guy in behind never came close catching us.
- Xel only recruits augurs.
- Silas is too offensive. Also he didn't recruit a single soulless during the first two turns, which would mess up that one event I had in mind.
- All the funny events and dialogues. Without them this is just plain boring.
- Need to get those custom classes and stuff coming up.
- Would be awesome to get them sprites and artwork too.
- Where do I get signposts? How am I supposed to know where I should go if there are no signposts?

And I assume I'm still going to have to do the whole bloody thing by myself. Pff.
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Re: Fire-Forged Friends

Post by Zamael »

No. This is [censored].

I can't do literally ANYTHING to that file without getting error messages. I tried to add a few lines of dialogue under the "prestart" event - error messages. I tried to make a new "start" event and put them under those - error messages.

HAVE I NOT ALREADY SUFFERED ENOUGH?! When will you see that with me in charge, this will NEVER go anywhere?! When will someone take this horrible load off my back?!

I want to see this done, I really do. And I would be willing to take some own responsibility. But as you can see, it honestly won't do. No matter what I do, I never get this right.

I have tried this before, y'know: I tried to do "Hello world!" once, years back. I didn't even get THAT working! I just can't do programming at all!

Give me credit. I tried. I really tried. Now I'm reduced to groweling at your feet, begging, PLEADING one of you to do the coding for me. Please?

***********************************

Chapter Six: To Storm the Fortress atop the Mountains

Weeks passed as they fought against the tide of the orcs, and the occasional undead. Despite being separated, Cheska, Silan, and Xel all came to more or less the same conclusions about the matter: the orcs were numerous and everywhere, but lacked any focus and concentration of any organized battleforce, instead raiding and killing very much randomly. This made it relatively easy to push them back as well.

It was quite a mystery, however, what had gotten them on the move in the first place. Orcs have always been a warlike race, and launched frequent raids to the surrounding civilizations, but this was something else entirely.

Winter had settled in and covered all of Wesnoth in snow, when Silan was at last reunited with the rest of the party. They each had all followed the tracks of the orc activity on their own, finally discovering the location of their warcamp: despite being relatively independent and working separately, there was likely to be a bigger, nastier orc behind it all pulling the strings.

Together once more, the three plan on assaulting the orcs and ending this war once and for all...

---
Spoiler:
(The topmost base belongs to Silan, while the bottom one is Cheska's. Bottom-right - in the water - is a bunch of nagas, while every other base is occupied by orcs. The camp walls surrounding the mountain have orcs as well: they mostly stay where they are, at least until something comes close enough and it's a pretty smart move for them to go elsewhere. Curiously enough, the one in charge of the whole thing - the leader of the central camp, in the middle of the mountain - is not an orc at all, but an Armageddon Drake . His lackeys are all orcs, however.)

Silan: "Cheska! How wonderful to see you again! It has been all too long!"
Cheska: "...Likewise."
Silan: "You know, I was just watching for this place. I think it was very fortunate we met here: I probably could not have done this all alone."
Cheska: "Teaming up against a superior number of orcs for our own survival... Just like the old days, I suppose."
Silan: "Indeed, indeed! ...But where is Xel? I was hoping to meet him as well."
Cheska: "Xel took his saurians and a few sneaky humans, in an effort to sneak in to the base from the east. He is late, though: I hope anything hasn't happened."
Silan: "Speaking of their base. Did you notice the...?"
Cheska: "I did."

Orc grunt: "My lord, we are approached by a... strange combination of forces."
Lord Flameheart Galragoth: "Indeed? Would you care to elaborate this?"
Grunt: "Well... a necromancer with a bunch of undead from the north. And a human army, allied with a few drakes, from the south. We assume, my lord, that they are all here to bash our heads in."
Galragoth: "Yes, I believe this assumption might hold some truth in it. Prepare all forces for battle."

Cheska: "A drake...? How in blazes can a drake be in charge of an orc army?"
Silan: "Beats me. I think it paid them money. A lot of money. Do you suppose it could be behind all this?"
Cheska: "Perhaps, although the motivation is unclear. What I know of drakes - most of it from Xel and his henchmen - is that they are quite happy with what they have, and don't usually run around conquering other people's places."
Silan: "Further supported by the fact that we indeed don't see many drakes running around in here trying to conquer our place. Suppose you would like to go and ask why he is doing this?"

---
There are several orc bases, and one naga fort, in the area: all of them quickly recruit a bunch of troops and attack whoever is nearest. The drake's base, meanwhile, sits around without doing anything much until a hostile force approaches it.
Cheska can now recruit drakes, because they're too big and loud to go on Xel's sneaky secret mission. If Zeza is still alive, he is here as well, along with the other named units.
For this mission to be considered a success, all the player needs to do is to go and beat up Lord Flameheart Galragoth himself. Easier said than done: not only is he a bloody tough customer in his own right, but all his immediate minions are of second level. There are not many of them, though.

On the tenth turn of conflict, Xel finally shows up. He appears to the mountains, straight east from the drake's base, along with him all the saurian veterans you have, as well as a few human rogues and outlaws. They're all in the player's control. Dialogue is triggered:
Xel: "Sorry I'm late! Did I miss anything?"
Cheska: "Xel! What kept you?"
Silan: "Great to see you again, little guy!"
Xel: "Hey, Silan is here! Nice to get back in touch with you, too."

Galragoth: "What is this? Saurians? How did they get past our lines?"
Grunt: "I... don't know, my lord. Sneaky bunch, saurians, as I'm sure you already know. You want us to stop them?"
Galragoth: (Sarcastically) "If you would be so kind...?"

Xel: "Wait, what? How can they have...?"
Silan: "Yes, we have been wondering the same thing. It's a... rather disturbing reveal, I think."
Cheska: "Whatever the case, we have more pressing matters to worry about right now. Onward, men!"

Once anyone, after this point, actually manages to hurt the mighty drake, some more dialogue will follow:
Xel: "Oi! Would you mind telling us what you are up to?"
Galragoth: "I think not. You will warrant no villain's exposition from me."

The battle is over when someone manages to injure Galragoth to less than twenty hit points. If the attack would have been enough to kill him, he's reduced to 1 HP instead.

---
On victory:
Galragoth: "Enough!"
His next attack - I haven't decided if it should be a gust of wind, a mighty stomp on ground that causes earthquakes, or a ring of fire - hurts everyone right next to him, friend or foe, and pushes them back a few steps.
Galragoth: "Fine. So you all have enough battle prowess to storm past my orc lackeys and seriously hurt me. Perhaps you can be a threat to me after all. But I must go now: I have wasted too much time, and I shall not die by your hand, not here."
He spreads his wings.
Cheska: "Wait!"
Galragoth: "Till we meet again!"

Then he flies away.
Silan: "Well, that was certainly... interesting."
Xel: "The rest of the orcs have been routed: whatever was left of them pretty much surrendered as soon as they saw their chief chickening out."
Cheska: "What took you so long, anyway? I thought something might have happened."
Xel: "Oh, um... nothing much. Just a few orcs. Infiltrating can be tough... he-heh. Nice of you to worry for me, though."
Cheska: "Oh it's nothing."
Silan: "Enough with the small-talk: I think the big question is, why was a drake in charge of them to begin with? Should we find him and ask?"
Cheska: "Probably explains why all the orcs were simultaneously so aggressive but also separate and uncoordinated, though: a member of another race in charge of them might be able to rouse and provoke them a bit, but not lead them all properly."
Xel: "I doubt it. Drakes of that magnitude hold a great deal of authority. He could easily have made them into an impressive and united battleforce if he wanted."
Silan: "Maybe he wasn't in charge after all?"
The reaction to this is amused, although Xel's laughter is extremely uncomfortable.
Cheska: "Ha-ha, yeah right."
Xel: "Ha-ha..."
...
Silan: "Xel, is something wrong?"
Xel: "...You are scaring me."
Silan: "How come?"
Xel: "Because you make sense. And because if something can command such a mighty drake..."
Cheska: "...then that something is a powerful force indeed."

***********************************

- The plot thickens!
- Also I'll give you some inside information: Galragoth (or his possible superiors) had to pay a LOT of money for the orcs, and then kill a few of them for good measure, for them to call him "Lord". Orcs really don't much like other races, so I've understood.
- This is probably the last map I post here, if my experiments at doing campaigns will go well. Things don't look all that good right now, though, but eh. Anyway, consider the first six missions Episode 1 or something.
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solsword
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Re: Fire-Forged Friends

Post by solsword »

Alright... as much as I probably shouldn't make this offer, since I've got lots of free time but grad school starts in a week, in addition to which I've got cliffs and my own campaign to work on, I have a proposal for you. I've got some sympathy for people who just aren't cut out for coding, and I really love your dialogue. Plus, your campaign so far nicely fits into what WML is capable of (pretty much. There may be some areas where compromise is necessary). So here's my proposal:

I'll help you with WML. I'm not sure how much time I'll be able to spend on this, but I'm willing to actually put together entire scenario files for you, rather than just sending you comments back and forth. In return, I *may* ask you to help out with my campaign a little bit... right now I'm working to fix up the code, but soon I'll be moving forward with the story, and although I fancy myself a reasonable writer, you've certainly got me outclassed. (Of course, as a bit of a writer, I'm woefully overprotective of my plot and such, so I don't know if I can bring myself to ask for writing help, but we'll see).

If you'd like me to start working, just PM me (or post here) a copy of the scenario as you have it so far (I haven't looked at the zip files posted here, but it seems like some of them have more errors than others, so I'd like to get whatever you have). At some point, I may try to get us a project on the UMC-dev repository (assuming you accept my proposal), but it may work better for us just to post in this thread, since I assume that you're not especially familiar with the program Subversion, and because your work is high-enough quality that it doesn't seem likely to need major revisions. If revisions do become an issue, we'll probably do Subversion, but I promise I'll hold your hand if it comes to that :) .

So um... in case you can't tell, I really like your work. The level of dialogue is quite high, and while I don't agree with all of your opinions about what Wesnoth campaigns need more and less of, I think you've got some good ideas on that front.
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Zamael
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Re: Fire-Forged Friends

Post by Zamael »

My sympathy act is once again victorious! (PM sent.)
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Re: Fire-Forged Friends

Post by Elvish_Hunter »

Hello Zamael, I have some more suggestions for you:
Chapter 4: because it's the first scenario where you're facing undead, I'll add a permanent Holy Ankh that makes arcane all melee attacks of the unit that picks it;
Zamael wrote:- I'm also slightly wary about using a Lich in this mission. In my experience, they're supposed to be really rare and usually the final bosses of campaigns. I'm trying to conserve my Liches in the future.
You can replace the Lich with with a Shadow Lord (like Helicrom, see Liberty).
Chapter 5:
Zamael wrote:This mission would seem to have plenty of potential for branching campaign, depending on whether Silan was seen or not. But I'm not a talented enough writer to make such things without turning the whole campaign into an overly complicated snarl.
I suggest you to not create branches, this will make things more complicated for you to code. For example, RDtDA doesn't have any branch, but still is a good campaign, am I right Huston? :wink:
Zamael wrote:
The1exile wrote:One small niggle is the saurian with a blanket, though - lizards don't have internal heating.
So they're not supposed to survive in the winter at all without going hibernation, yet we see that happen occasionally. I assume it's just some weird fantasy lizard thing. Realism was never the strong point of any fantasy.
Wesnoth Is Not Realistic. We are talking about a non-existent creature (a 50 centimetres tall lizard handling a rusty spear; but we never know, after all I'm an elf... :lol2: )
Chapter 6:
Zamael wrote:On victory:
Galragoth: "Enough!"
His next attack - I haven't decided if it should be a gust of wind, a mighty stomp on ground that causes earthquakes, or a ring of fire - hurts everyone right next to him, friend or foe, and pushes them back a few steps.

IMHO, it's better if Galragoth simply flies away (using move_unit_fake) and, in doing this, accidentally drops a ring of fire that modifies the unit that picks it, setting its fire resistance to 50% and making it able to launch fireballs, for example 8-3 ranged magical attack. Hurting units at the end of a scenario is nonsensed, because they'll be fully healed at the next scenario start.
Don't forget to take a look to ESR's Campaign Design How-To, and remember that on the add-ons server there is a basic campaign, called The Final Exam, created to be easy to modify and to learn WML.
If you want some portrais, you can still use some taken from other (even old) campaigns or old Wesnoth versions, at least as placeholders. For example, for Silan you can use Helicrom's portrait (from Liberty),
Helicrom
Helicrom
p_helicrom.png (33.44 KiB) Viewed 2569 times
while for Xel you can use the old mainline Saurian Skirmisher's one.
Old Saurian Skirmisher
Old Saurian Skirmisher
saurian-skirmisher.png (18.5 KiB) Viewed 2569 times
And finally,
Zamael wrote:I tried to do "Hello world!" once, years back. I didn't even get THAT working! I just can't do programming at all!
What language did you used? In Python, you need only to type

Code: Select all

print "Hello, World"
and it works. In C... well, there is plenty of simple languages out there: Perl, Ruby... Now, for GUI programming, I'm undecided between WxPython and PyGTK...

Code: Select all

>>> if thread=="Fire-Forged Friends":
	print "Good luck coding, Zamael!" [Return]
Good luck coding, Zamael!
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Huston
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Re: Fire-Forged Friends

Post by Huston »

Elvish_Hunter wrote:
Zamael wrote:This mission would seem to have plenty of potential for branching campaign, depending on whether Silan was seen or not. But I'm not a talented enough writer to make such things without turning the whole campaign into an overly complicated snarl.
I suggest you to not create branches, this will make things more complicated for you to code. For example, RDtDA doesn't have any branch, but still is a good campaign, am I right Huston? :wink:
yes you are right, branchiung doies unneccesarilky complicate the coding.
a testament to that is i intended at one point in time to add a small branch near the end of RDtDA but it proved too time consuming so i left it as origionally coded without branches. it is still fun and all the bugs have finally been squashed, but as a first campaign definitly avoid branching until at least after the main storyline has been coded and published. branching should only take plkace after the 1.0.0 release
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solsword
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Re: Fire-Forged Friends

Post by solsword »

Elvish_Hunter wrote: Chapter 4: because it's the first scenario where you're facing undead, I'll add a permanent Holy Ankh that makes arcane all melee attacks of the unit that picks it;
Elvish_Hunter wrote: IMHO, it's better if Galragoth simply flies away (using move_unit_fake) and, in doing this, accidentally drops a ring of fire that modifies the unit that picks it, setting its fire resistance to 50% and making it able to launch fireballs, for example 8-3 ranged magical attack.
I disagree with both of these ideas...

The first, because it is exasperatingly over-used. What's the point of undead having piercing resistance if *every* time you fight them in a campaign your units get to do arcane damage? This kind of thing greatly diminishes the strategy of these scenarios.

The second, because it's a bit overused in the same way: i.e. giving out items that are particularly useful against a particular enemy. In addition the "gain a fireball attack" has been done already. What I'd like to see in this campaign is some interesting and *unique* magic items that give cool new abilities. Of course, since I'm now doing the coding for the campaign, that might just happen :wink: . Zamael?
Elvish_Hunter wrote: Hurting units at the end of a scenario is nonsensed [sic], because they'll be fully healed at the next scenario start.
Well, if the attack kills them, they won't be :twisted: . Of course, that would be a little mean, but even if the attack was made so that it wouldn't kill them, having it actually do damage does wonders for the dramatic effect.
The Knights of the Silver Spire campaign.

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Re: Fire-Forged Friends

Post by Zamael »

I will have to agree with Solsword on most points. Indeed, there's not much point in hurting anyone if they're in full health once more in the next mission, but yeah, it's for the dramatic effect. Like "LOOKIT ME HURTING YOU PEOPLE, AM I TOUGH NOW?".

He could drop something on his way out, though. And Xel, being a sneaky motherlover, would pick it up and hide it in his pocket without telling anyone, and then it'd become important later on. Or something, I dunno.

Helicrom does look a bit like I thought Silan would look, except Silan's got a kinder face and less bling. That skirmisher portrait doesn't look much like I imagined Xel, though, even if we forget the lack of shackles.

Also I believe saurians are at least a meter tall. With Xel, probably slightly less.
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Kenpachi
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Re: Fire-Forged Friends

Post by Kenpachi »

Having read through all the scenarios made so far, I have to say, I do like the story. just one thing...
You have a nice odd combination of heroes, but just the standard "bad guys" Orcs, & undead, with drakes to mixing it up a little.
Spoiler:
Just some random thoughts I had when I read through the scenarios.
Last edited by Kenpachi on September 15th, 2009, 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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