The Earth's Gut for BfW 1.16

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Rik
Posts: 4
Joined: September 23rd, 2009, 2:36 pm

Re: Campaign: Dwarven Kingdom (14 scenarios, 0.0.3 (BfW1.6.x))

Post by Rik »

The game crashes in Lost when I turn the corner.
See attached screenshot.

I have 1.6.5; but it crashed in 1.6.1 as well.
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wesnoth crash.JPG
Anonymissimus
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Re: Campaign: Dwarven Kingdom (14 scenarios, 0.0.3 (BfW1.6.x))

Post by Anonymissimus »

I'm guessing that's the weird "unit creation in presence of shroud" (engine) bug. You can complain there: ;)
http://gna.org/bugs/index.php?14227
Just tested in 1.6.4 and didn't happen, although it did already crash at that point if I recall correctly. But since I couldn't reproduce the bug I let it be. I circumvent it now by removing the shroud before unit creation instead vice versa until now, hopefully this helps. Attach a savegame from the end of the previous scenario please.
uploaded 0.0.3a
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign
Rik
Posts: 4
Joined: September 23rd, 2009, 2:36 pm

Re: Campaign: Dwarven Kingdom (14 scenarios, 0.0.3 (BfW1.6.x))

Post by Rik »

Here it is, jus move a unit as far north as you can.
My guess is I might need a "modpack" or something with the unit in it.
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Anonymissimus
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Re: Campaign: Dwarven Kingdom (14 scenarios, 0.0.3 (BfW1.6.x))

Post by Anonymissimus »

from the end of the previous scenario I said
but I've found a problem that was actually in the wml code, it's caused by difficulty easy that's why I must have overlooked it
I leave the shroud removal the way it is anyway
uploaded 0.0.3b, you can try again
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign
Rik
Posts: 4
Joined: September 23rd, 2009, 2:36 pm

Re: Campaign: Dwarven Kingdom (14 scenarios, 0.0.3 (BfW1.6.x))

Post by Rik »

My apologies.
I think this is the one you need.

I've downloaded 0.03b and testing it from the save I've included here.
I'll let you know if it's ok.

Edit: It seems to work. Thanks

Edit 2: Well, the game doesn't crash, but when the purple guys (1 Skeleton archer and 1 Walking corpse) are dead and Kroloth is out of his cage, but there doesn't seem anything to do except just walk around until the timer ends and you lose.

What I've read earlier it doesn't seem to me as it is supposed to be.
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Anonymissimus
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Re: Campaign: Dwarven Kingdom (14 scenarios, 0.0.3 (BfW1.6.x))

Post by Anonymissimus »

eyey
my apologies for such crap code
the variable that counts the enemy units didn't reach zero due to the lacking ghost on easy
thank you for testing
0.0.3c is ready for test^^
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign
Rik
Posts: 4
Joined: September 23rd, 2009, 2:36 pm

Re: Campaign: Dwarven Kingdom (14 scenarios, 0.0.3 (BfW1.6.x))

Post by Rik »

Thanks, it is working now.

BTW, I forgot to compliment you for this nice campaign. :D
Sario
Posts: 2
Joined: September 21st, 2009, 1:16 pm

Re: Campaign: Dwarven Kingdom (14 scenarios, 0.0.3 (BfW1.6.x))

Post by Sario »

Wow I have to say that as youre first campaign its realy splendid job, its been long time sinc I've played such interesting adventure. The Ideas, choices, characters, and also maps make me fell like playing official campaign, some ideays where even bether :]. Hehe the fire whos grate, but why it is ending whit credits all the sudden? And one other thing, i sugest doing somthing about trol Advisitor, and that elf shaman that later acompany you. Controld by computer theyre dying to fast by going at the front lines.

ps:
Oh yeah and the text about the monster "Monster: what whos you expecting from wesnoth campaign?" xD i love it

X:hmm thers no lake monster ?
Y:ther whos one but we got rid of him last time.


Sry for my English
Anonymissimus
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Re: Campaign: Dwarven Kingdom (14 scenarios, 0.0.3 (BfW1.6.x))

Post by Anonymissimus »

thanks
Sario wrote:Hehe the fire whos grate, but why it is ending whit credits all the sudden?
because that's the last scenario currently... :roll:
And one other thing, i sugest doing somthing about trol Advisitor, and that elf shaman that later acompany you. Controld by computer theyre dying to fast by going at the front lines
both units are supposed to (probably) die and they wouldn't have joined the player anyway
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign
Sario
Posts: 2
Joined: September 21st, 2009, 1:16 pm

Re: Campaign: Dwarven Kingdom (14 scenarios, 0.0.3 (BfW1.6.x))

Post by Sario »

Well the elf join, or it only have samiliar name : P, biside is strange that some one so skild like Advisitor die so easy lol.

I whos confus becouse it dont realy look like it wold be the end : P, I wold expect error info like next scenario is missing, but not credits : p.

Well but any way GOOD JOB!
Anonymissimus
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Re: Campaign: Dwarven Kingdom (15 scenarios, 0.0.5 (BfW1.6.x))

Post by Anonymissimus »

uploaded 0.0.5
added one scenario, now 15
other more important user-visible changes:
-developed a wml code that makes ai retreat and heal certain units instead of sacrificing them, it's used in scenarios 6 and 15 for now
-Hamel advancement lasts very long now, his level 4 variant is slightly better than the core dwarf lord and he can have amlas. In theory, infinite attack improvements are possible, but in reality the experience needed for that grows exponentially...
-Dulatus also can have amlas; more characters will follow.
Amlas put character development onto a very long run until late in the campaign and keep the player going. :)

Other than that, playtested scenarios and such.

I'm still waiting for suggestions for better names for the campaign and for the dwarf healer line.
I was wondering about "A dwerrows' history" or similar, that would fit what it is going to become.
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign
spir
Posts: 97
Joined: September 15th, 2009, 9:31 am
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Re: Campaign: Dwarven Kingdom (15 scenarios, 0.0.5 (BfW1.6.x))

Post by spir »

[warning: long post]

Hello,

Just finished to play the last (*) version from the add-on server on 1.6.4, medium difficulty. Here is some feedback as long as everything is fresh.
(*) EDIT: actually no more, just read your last post, don't know scenario #15.

-0- introduction
I like your introduction at start of this thread, especially
first I will write what I'd like to read if I'd want to play a campaign
and did not find it long at all. (Actually, I'd enjoy reading more things like that about campaign design and development process. Also, I share your comment about the campaign-howto -- rather arbitrary.)

-1- story
Found the storyline basically good; simple enough to follow while playing at first time, but complex enough to be interesting. Consistent and pleasant. The connections with other campaigns (NR, THoT, HttT) worked well by me.
English is also foreign for me, but I missed anyway some style -- the problem beeing maybe not (only) a question of language. Precisely because the raw meterial is imo good, it would greatly profit from a rewriting by someone with story-telling & poetic skills (read: someone of a rare kind.) Maybe ask on the proper forum.
Also, some characters would deserve a bit more "flesh", esp. Aiglathing, the elf shaman and the lost dwarf.
I liked very much unprobable alliances with elves and trolls. Precisely, the way you drive the story finely for this to happen and be smoothly welcome by the player. Go on that way, I would say. There may be more, namely that on the dwarf side something goes wrong (some naughty ones); and/or even more weird alliance with a couple of orcs and/or guys from undead side (see below)

-2- gameplay
Fairly nicely playable on medium. Had a very good time all along except a short passage in Lost (see below).
I found it rather easier than most "intermediate" campaigns on medium, which leads to abondance of gold and/or power, each feeding the other (double snowball effect!), but this is a wesnoth issue, not yours (I mean that once one has a bit too much resources, this will only grow). So, you may add a bit of difficulty at some points, but not too much because it is also pleasant for a change not to struggle that much. Another possibility is to lower gold amount by shorter turn limits, or add actions that delay the end of one scenario or the other. I regulated myself by recruiting few, or rather non level-3 units at some points.
I insist on the fact that the game should only be slightly more resource eating at a few moments. Oh yes, the drakes could be much tougher, I guess.
I especially enjoyed all the trip in Lost and the 8-turn survival scenario. But all was fun. I chose the way through cave mainly because the yeti frightened even my lords;-( Anyway the later scenario was good so I did not regret, but will have to replay for the other branch...


-3- survival
By the way, this scenario is much too easy. After a few turns my units were trying to break through the rock just to find ennemies to fight ;-) Even more because this happens after both groups joining again so the player has a double recall list. Except on the wc side because there were really many (this because the part of the cave through which they arrive is bigger and has more curves).
I would suggest: a strong commando of dwarves (dwarves only because trolls are few anyway and have much fun there) is sent through the southern gate toward the elven allies, maybe supposed to fight their way a bit, at start of the scenario; instead of the only messenger at end. This commando is taken from the recall list without any choice from the player -- according to a sensible algorithm indeed ;-). (the player must have enough of various types and levels, but not 25 lvl3).
(This may also be an opportunity for a later add-on scenario -- also explaining why/how heroes suddenly jump out of the air into the Kailian, , which I found a bit weird for sure, also because they were just fighting to survive, far away, and simply did not go along with the messenger. Maybe heroes just rejoin the commando later.)

-4- berserker
I had an issue only because I did not want the ulfserker to die. Was fairly difficult against bats because (1) they can reach from anywhere (2) they regenerate by biting, which is unfair against a berserker. I had to find a very strict procedure & this took me about 5 save-loadings until I understood how this part of the scenario works ;-) Don't know what your intention is... Anyway, I was payed back by the fun he had against adepts in the survival scenario.
The point is bats join the ennemy attackers when the keep is reached, seemingly, but you need 2 turns for new troll recruits be able to protect the dwarf with ZoC. In the meanwhile he's dead because (1) he cannot survive a lvl1 bat even if himself already lvl2 (mine was) and with full health at start of the fight (2) there are ~ 3 bats plus one lvl2 dreadbat.
As a suggestion, this character is intriguing due to his long lonely life up to then. He may benefit from more relevance later if he survives. Possibly, a scenario could pass through cave areas he has visited already, so that he would warn about traps, dangers and such. This would be nice as long as warnings do not change too much the difficulty, and if it's an opportunity for us to get to know him better.

-5- weird alliances
This led me to a connection with this idea of 'unnatural' alliance. I think there could be 1 (or 2, depending on level, but not more) rebel(s) from the undead joining the allies. (Think at Delfador's memoirs - they may even have heard of him.) And this could happen with Dulatus around the torture room -- in there of just after. As a consequence, saving the lost dwarf would also be not such hard (because we need to block 3 ways from bat attacks around the keep later found, and have only 2 units with him). I think precisely at a shadow for several reasons:
* They are lost souls, not necessarily "bad", and as opposed to zombies or skeletons can have their own mind.
* A shadow can fly! Good against bats...
* I like them ;-)

-6- elf shaman
I did not understand the issue people evoke on this thread about her. Had no problem to let her live at all... I chose the sorceress line mainly because these dwarves have healers and also a white mage with them and I love the shyle type (since I played LoW). She became enchantress some time before the survival.

-7- names

* Custom dwarf line: I agreed with the suggestion about the dwarf shaman/healer line that it should be connected somehow to (the study of) rune (art). But it's just me. Anyway, my choice would be "runist", as a mix between "rune" and "(al)chemist", lol! This also make a slight connection with more modern culture and wording.

* Campaign: Well, it's kind of a little odyssey. Think at UtBS, except it does not involve the fate of a whole folk and is more concrete, less mythological; they're dwarves, indeed! But I think it would be worth an evocating, poetic, name, as well (I love 'UtBS', the name, too -- and it's from far my favorite campaign, 3 levels of quality higher than all others for the story and also great about gameplay). My ideas wander around something like "(Deep in) the Earth's Guts" ;-) or such... Depends on what you have in mind for the next scenarios, how deep they may dig fighting their way down to the lich. Or "The Earth's guts' <something>", with <something> = "jewel"/"secret"/"power"... or why not "hammer"? Depends on what happens about the hammer, sure. My 3 cents.

* Dwarf Kal <something>: no idea, sorry.



PS: I started to design an alternative advancement path for white mages. Your campaign would be a rather good place to introduce and test it, for mage of light is rather a nuisance for dwarves and trolls! What do you think? (As long as the campaign is in dev phase, there may be a choice dialog -- and anyway nobody's forced to use it.)
My idea, from the tale point of view, is a kind of mage with a wandering way of life, proposing his (mainly healing) skills here and there to people. Think at errant monks. I call it "wandering mage", also need a better name? As a consequence, this guy has much better movement rather than illumination, and a different power increase:
* A movement type close to rangers (mainly 1 move cost on hills, 2 on mountains & in water); and 1 more MP.
* Rather increase of "physical" short-range attack than magical one.
Both are justified, if needed, by his way of life.
Denis
life is strange

various stuff about BfW (rules, stats, alternatives) and WML (parser, semantic schema, evolution)
Anonymissimus
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Re: Campaign: Dwarven Kingdom (15 scenarios, 0.0.5 (BfW1.6.x))

Post by Anonymissimus »

Thanks for the positive and comprehensive feedback. :)
spir wrote: English is also foreign for me, but I missed anyway some style -- the problem beeing maybe not (only) a question of language. Precisely because the raw meterial is imo good, it would greatly profit from a rewriting by someone with story-telling & poetic skills (read: someone of a rare kind.) Maybe ask on the proper forum.
Agreed. That matches the way I think of my writing skills, but that's something left to when the campaign is code-wise complete I think. Or people will come and make suggestions for dialogue.
Also, some characters would deserve a bit more "flesh", esp. Aiglathing, the elf shaman and the lost dwarf.
The problem is, that I have quite a number of these special characters, and many of them are allowed to die. So I need to write dialogues in such a way that they make sense no matter which of the MANY possible combinations of living/dead characters is the case...Think of e.g. Elrian in HttT, the mage who joins Konrad in Isle of Alduin; he never again says anything after that scenario. It is simply very complex to care for all these characters. As for Aiglathing, it'd be easy of course, as he's the one that must not die and who says the things that need to be said in case that the other characters are dead. ;)
I found it rather easier than most "intermediate" campaigns on medium, which leads to abondance of gold and/or power, each feeding the other (double snowball effect!), but this is a wesnoth issue, not yours (I mean that once one has a bit too much resources, this will only grow).
The balancing task is the most comprehensive part of campaign making, even more than debugging I believe. There are even severe balancing issues in mainline campaigns like e.g. LoW...Is there a way to balance scenarios other than by playtesting ? That'd be very helpful. I play a specific scenario, and change gold/income/turns a bit until the next time-consuming trial...
By the way, this scenario is much too easy. After a few turns my units were trying to break through the rock just to find ennemies to fight ;-) Even more because this happens after both groups joining again so the player has a double recall list. Except on the wc side because there were really many (this because the part of the cave through which they arrive is bigger and has more curves).
Agreed. Happened to me, too. Also, I don't like that scenario at all. But it has to be there for storyline reasons.
I would suggest: a strong commando of dwarves (dwarves only because trolls are few anyway and have much fun there) is sent through the southern gate toward the elven allies, maybe supposed to fight their way a bit, at start of the scenario; instead of the only messenger at end. This commando is taken from the recall list without any choice from the player -- according to a sensible algorithm indeed ;-). (the player must have enough of various types and levels, but not 25 lvl3).
(This may also be an opportunity for a later add-on scenario -- also explaining why/how heroes suddenly jump out of the air into the Kailian, , which I found a bit weird for sure, also because they were just fighting to survive, far away, and simply did not go along with the messenger. Maybe heroes just rejoin the commando later.)
I like the idea "fighting through to the elves". Yes, I'll include that I think.
I had an issue only because I did not want the ulfserker to die. Was fairly difficult against bats because (1) they can reach from anywhere (2) they regenerate by biting, which is unfair against a berserker. I had to find a very strict procedure & this took me about 5 save-loadings until I understood how this part of the scenario works ;-) Don't know what your intention is... Anyway, I was payed back by the fun he had against adepts in the survival scenario.
The point is bats join the ennemy attackers when the keep is reached, seemingly, but you need 2 turns for new troll recruits be able to protect the dwarf with ZoC. In the meanwhile he's dead because (1) he cannot survive a lvl1 bat even if himself already lvl2 (mine was) and with full health at start of the fight (2) there are ~ 3 bats plus one lvl2 dreadbat.
As for rescuing the troll whelp, there's an explanation somewhere above how to do that (on hard). Keeping the berserker alive is indeed difficult, but it is always, not only im my scenario, isn't it ? The problem here is that one "mustn't loose" him since he's loyal.
Keep him in the second row, and move him slowly. Let Dulatus reach the castle and recruit 4 units while he is still on the way. I was wondering about changing the unit type, but that destroys the nice connection between "crazy from living so long alone underground" and berserker frenzy. ;)
As a suggestion, this character is intriguing due to his long lonely life up to then. He may benefit from more relevance later if he survives. Possibly, a scenario could pass through cave areas he has visited already, so that he would warn about traps, dangers and such.
He is imprisoned in his home in "Lost" - the caved in passage/the torrential creek on one side, the enemies on the other. He can't have explored such caves...
That scenario is actually even my favorite one I think. :) And the ai behaviour there seems different between 1.7 and 1.6...
This led me to a connection with this idea of 'unnatural' alliance. I think there could be 1 (or 2, depending on level, but not more) rebel(s) from the undead joining the allies. (Think at Delfador's memoirs - they may even have heard of him.) And this could happen with Dulatus around the torture room -- in there of just after. As a consequence, saving the lost dwarf would also be not such hard (because we need to block 3 ways from bat attacks around the keep later found, and have only 2 units with him).
The idea is nice, but not in that scenario, sorry.
And yes, Delfadors Memoirs is great in that aspect. I could play undead for the first time without feeling bad about that. :)
I chose the sorceress line mainly because these dwarves have healers and also a white mage with them and I love the shyle type (since I played LoW).&nbsp;She became enchantress some time before the survival.
I'd recommend making the elf shaman a sylph and the mage a great mage since their loyal trait is most useful then. However, on hard the dwarf healers aren't recruitable, so one may want to have another healer.
(I love 'UtBS', the name, too -- and it's from far my favorite campaign, 3 levels of quality higher than all others for the story and also great about gameplay).
UtBS is also probably the most complex campaign ever, so complex that hardly anyone understands its wml. And thus quite buggy...
My ideas wander around something like "(Deep in) the Earth's Guts" ;-) or such... Depends on what you have in mind for the next scenarios, how deep they may dig fighting their way down to the lich.
There may still be too many surface scenarios for that name (about 9 out of 20-23 battle scenarios after all). But sounds cool. ;)

As for alternative white mage: Sorry, I think I like the current (core) magi exactly the way they are...
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign
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StandYourGround
Posts: 256
Joined: May 13th, 2009, 2:16 am
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Re: Campaign: Dwarven Kingdom (15 scenarios, 0.0.5 (BfW1.6.x))

Post by StandYourGround »

Suggestions for Dwarf healer line:

Medic, Doctor, Surgeon

Shrink (excuse the Dwarf Pun), Adept Medic, Practitioner

Field Doctor, Surgeon, Head Surgeon

Alchemist, Potion Smith, Medicine Man

Just random ideas...
I will now resume lurking silently.
Anonymissimus
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Re: Campaign: Dwarven Kingdom (15 scenarios, 0.0.5 (BfW1.6.x))

Post by Anonymissimus »

ok thanks
what about
lev 1: Apprentice Runemedic
lev 2: Runemedic
lev 3: Master Runemedic

medic in opposition to shaman etc should match the thing, that the dwarves' healing abilities are rather based upon science, not on magic. And this also fits the names from the Runesmith line:
lev 2: Runesmith
lev 3: Runemaster

/edit
Changed my mind. If it's based on science, it'd probably be better to avoid the term "rune" at all, since the runelore ist currently lost anyway (in 515YW when the campaign is set.)
Last edited by Anonymissimus on October 19th, 2009, 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign
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