The Sojournings of Grog (3.6.1 is out)

[shadowblack]

I advanced Elyssa as Great Mage, because of the higher damage. In a future playthrough I'll try the Gold Mage.

Anyway, 1.9.2 just got released, so I think I'll start over once the next version gets released, so that I can check out any changes made to the early scenarios.

Yes, I think mixing the Guardsmen with some Thunderers and Fighters will make things a bit more interesting.

[Anonymissimus]

Instead of hacking savegames you could probably also do something like

Code: Select all

[modify_unit]
    [filter]
        id=Elyssa
        type=Red Mage TSoG
    [/filter]
    type=Red Mage
    advances_to=Arch Mage,Silver Mage
...

in all scenarios.
Removed unit types can be fixed with a small compatibility unit_type with [base_unit] pointing to the new type (here Red Mage). (Afaik I'm rather unique in trying to maintain such sort of backwards compatibility in my campaign )

[Elvish_Hunter]

I advanced Elyssa as Great Mage, because of the higher damage. In a future playthrough I'll try the Gold Mage.

If some people, like you, will choose the Great Mage for the increased firepower, and some other will choose the Gold Mage because of the extra MP and increased resistances, then my objective is accomplished.

I can check out any changes made to the early scenarios.

Most of the changes, right now, are in coding, like trying to have a clean wmllint and wmlscope output. So, for now, the first scenarios aren't changed.

Instead of hacking savegames you could probably also do something like

I'm undecided if I'll do this or not: now Elyssa, as you can see at page 24, has a gold portrait, and using such hack won't show it, but will keep the silver portrait. Also, we are on the development server, not on the stable one, and this mean that people using it usually have some WML knowledge. I'll think about it.
About the bug when uploading on the server: in 1.9.2 I didn't found it, so it is fixed.

[Neuromancer]

Nice campaign, i got stuck on level when village is being defended. After 14 turns nothing happens. A few suggestions:
1. Bubble (on level zero) should get more than 3 moves, it is slowing down the whole group.
2. In third scenario, after walking into cave, I chose to go the southern path. I see no reason to blast down the bridge. Also it is quite unlogical you encounter dwarf patrol who just walked out from ant territory.

[Elvish_Hunter]

i got stuck on level when village is being defended. After 14 turns nothing happens.

The tunnel does not open on turn 14. The tunnel opens 14 turns after seeing or being attacked by an Undead. And I just played that scenario, so I can confirm that it works correctly. Sorry if the objective wasn't clear.

1. Bubble (on level zero) should get more than 3 moves, it is slowing down the whole group.

It's a problem of the mainline Mudcrawler. If you want, I can raise its moves to 4.

2. In third scenario, after walking into cave, I chose to go the southern path. I see no reason to blast down the bridge. Also it is quite unlogical you encounter dwarf patrol who just walked out from ant territory.

The reason for blasting the bridge is to avoid that any Dwarf follows them (there are some in the north path). Don't forget that those Dwarves have weapons, so they may have killed Ants on their own (if you do :debug :shroud you'll see that there isn't any on the mine rails), or the Ants may have just been too afraid of them to fight.

[shadowblack]

Destroying the bridge makes sense if you went directly south, as you don't want any dwarves following you; if you first go north and kill all dwarves there, and THEN go south, it seems unnecessary. But at least it's fun.

As for the ants, maybe they learned the hard way not to mess with the dwarves...

[Eros]

The Guardsmen are placed at the scenario start as guardians. What about a mix of Guardsmen, Fighters and Thunderers (not Scouts, because they're weaker)?

imho just stop the leader from recruiting guardsmen/upgrades/ that will stop all problems straight away.

1. Bubble (on level zero) should get more than 3 moves, it is slowing down the whole group.
2. In third scenario, after walking into cave, I chose to go the southern path. I see no reason to blast down the bridge. Also it is quite unlogical you encounter dwarf patrol who just walked out from ant territory.

1 I agree
2 The dialog explains why the bridge is destroyed.
NB: Thanks for the comments.

[Elvish_Hunter]

imho just stop the leader from recruiting guardsmen/upgrades/ that will stop all problems straight away.

No, the problem isn't having the Dwarf leader recruiting them, but having too much of them as guardians placed in every bottleneck. While it makes sense that Dwarves defend in such places, having some units without steadfast can make that part a bit easier and more interesting.
While we're talking about Dwarves, the Runesmith line is now moved to core, with new sprites. Its use as Fighter advancement can be enabled with extra_defines=ENABLE_DWARVISH_RUNESMITH. Do you agree if I add this line to _main.cfg and see what happens? If this doesn't improve the game, I can always remove it.

1 I agree

OK. The "mudpie" will have 4 moves even at level 0.

[Eros]

While we're talking about Dwarves, the Runesmith line is now moved to core, with new sprites. Its use as Fighter advancement can be enabled with extra_defines=ENABLE_DWARVISH_RUNESMITH. Do you agree if I add this line to _main.cfg and see what happens? If this doesn't improve the game, I can always remove it.

I think yes (maybe) as long as they cant be recruited. Better I would have thought would be to heve a couple of runesmiths as "spice" for a long and boring scenario. Maybe the leaders who turn up with the runelord could be runesmiths?

On that line I went through the campaign with liberal use of ":n" yesterday and here are my comments

• Remove mine rails coz: 1 the dwarves arent minig in this part of the caves. 2 they look silly.
• Why does the mudcrawler start as level 0 then upgrade before getting AMLAS? could he just start as level 1 with new graphics.
• mudcrawler needs to hide on mushrooms as well.
• Could the mudcrawler only get some of his upgrades at the beginning and the get more? (Generally I think on playing it that there are to many upgrade types)
• Cactoses need to be removed from A1 now they are in A0 as a bonus.
• The message about what Elyssa upgrades to needs to be delayed when you find her. (I think my dialog changes fixed that)
• The White troll is good but like the mudcrawler it needs to only get its cooler upgrades after a few basic ones have happened. (something like he has to upgrade HP and melee attacks before he gets poison and he has to do something else before he gets aura)
• Having seen it in situ I think that the white troll ought to be moved back to a side tunnel from the first dwarvish keep in A2-1 (IE as an incentive for the harder northern branch)
• both the white troll and the mudcrawler need to change their level on certain upgrades cf Kaleh in UTBS
• There are a number of dialog problems but my dialog changes picked most of them up.
• 25-27,17 should be blocked up in A4 as you are meant to meet the bats before you meet the trolls. Alternatively and better make the tunnel longer and move the bats down it a bit (about 5-10 hexes)
• REMOVE THE MINE RAILS
• Idea: for old timers how about white troll gets called krunk?
• Comments about mountains with legs in A6 dont fit because the obvious reference is the yetis not the trolls. Once again my dialog changes
• There is a residual comment on ogre upgrades at the end of A5.
• remove text formatting on comment on ogre upgradesa and new gryphon types.
• I think we are at cross purposes on the rune halos. I like the ToD shift but not the halos (yhey look bad where they cross themselves and cave walls) 1.9.2 allows colour shifting ofpart of the map. Doing that to make it look a lot bluer would do quite nicely instead.
• The bit where you move the units in in B6 is semi-broken now you have added recalls (rather than MOVE_UNIT_IN macros) for white troll and mudcrawler/
• Could we make it so the white troll and mudcrawler dont get recalled automatically after A5 and A4 respectively. (That is where their guaranteed usefulness ceases) certainly after A7. (An auto recall in B7 would be good though)

[Elvish_Hunter]

Remove mine rails coz: 1 the dwarves arent minig in this part of the caves. 2 they look silly.

Ok. Any other suggestion for new terrains?

Why does the mudcrawler start as level 0 then upgrade before getting AMLAS? could he just start as level 1 with new graphics.

So, this means having it L1, and use its L0 graphics?

Could the mudcrawler only get some of his upgrades at the beginning and the get more? (Generally I think on playing it that there are to many upgrade types)

Yes.

Cactoses need to be removed from A1 now they are in A0 as a bonus.

I'm not sure. I thought to place Scorpions instead in A0.

The White troll is good but like the mudcrawler it needs to only get its cooler upgrades after a few basic ones have happened. (something like he has to upgrade HP and melee attacks before he gets poison and he has to do something else before he gets aura)

Ok,but it's not easy. The problem is that each AMLA has and ID. So, I cannot count how much times a specific AMLA is awarded, but only if it is already awarded or not. It's possible, however, to create three identical AMLAs with different IDs to override this limit.
EDIT: Ok, my memory fooled me again. Thanks Anonymissimus. The answer now is: it can be done, I just need a good "advancement plan". Like, say, upgrade ranged damage twice and ranged attacks once before allowing poison and aura? I also thought of a darkening aura (or obscure, or deluminates, or call it whatever you want), that is simply the opposite of Illuminates ability. I never added it as AMLA because I wasn't sure.

Having seen it in situ I think that the white troll ought to be moved back to a side tunnel from the first dwarvish keep in A2-1 (IE as an incentive for the harder northern branch)

Guess what? That was the same idea that I originally had. Sometimes things need to be made and seen to decide if they work or not.

both the white troll and the mudcrawler need to change their level on certain upgrades cf Kaleh in UTBS

I must admit that Kaleh's AMLA system is a bit complicated. I'll take a look at it.

25-27,17 should be blocked up in A4 as you are meant to meet the bats before you meet the trolls. Alternatively and better make the tunnel longer and move the bats down it a bit (about 5-10 hexes)

OK. I'll edit the map.

Idea: for old timers how about white troll gets called krunk?

Ehm... the Shaman that you find in A7 is already called Krunk...

There is a residual comment on ogre upgrades at the end of A5.

I forgot to remove it.

remove text formatting on comment on ogre upgradesa and new gryphon types.

I added formatting because having quotes created wmllint problems.

I think we are at cross purposes on the rune halos. I like the ToD shift but not the halos (yhey look bad where they cross themselves and cave walls) 1.9.2 allows colour shifting ofpart of the map. Doing that to make it look a lot bluer would do quite nicely instead.

The halo is here for those players that keep Local Time of Day disabled. It's a technical reason.

The bit where you move the units in in B6 is semi-broken now you have added recalls (rather than MOVE_UNIT_IN macros) for white troll and mudcrawler/

It is already fixed in my local copy. Explanation: we used a variable check [if] variable=isalive_{ID}. I noticed that problem, incinerated that variable check and replaced it with [if] [have_unit] search_recall_list=yes. Now it works fine. It will be in 2.10.4

Could we make it so the white troll and mudcrawler dont get recalled automatically after A5 and A4 respectively. (That is where their guaranteed usefulness ceases) certainly after A7. (An auto recall in B7 would be good though)

Again, I added these recalls after your request. I'll remove them.

[Anonymissimus]

an AMLA id can be repeated any number of times to indicate that another advancement must be chosen several times before this advancement option will become available

...

[Eros]

Ok. Any other suggestion for new terrains?

I think the maps are good though maybe bringing out the change in seasons with the grass colours would be good.

So, this means having it L1, and use its L0 graphics?

No have it L0 and use L1 graphics. (Have it change its level like Kaleh does in UtBS)

I'm not sure. I thought to place Scorpions instead in A0.

Not MORE scorpians! If you have to though you need to stop the cactoses being spawned within 8 hexes of the start in A1

EDIT: Ok, my memory fooled me again. Thanks Anonymissimus. The answer now is: it can be done, I just need a good "advancement plan". Like, say, upgrade ranged damage twice and ranged attacks once before allowing poison and aura? I also thought of a darkening aura (or obscure, or deluminates, or call it whatever you want), that is simply the opposite of Illuminates ability. I never added it as AMLA because I wasn't sure.

Try "Obscures" and see what comes.
NB: There are to many upgrades (you need over 1000 XP to fully advance him which is at least twice to much) make each upgrade bigger/better and lower the XP percentage increase between upgrades. (there are to many basic attack upgrades rather than have improve melee attacks and improve melee damage have improve melee attack and have it alternate between improving the damage and the number.)

Guess what? That was the same idea that I originally had. Sometimes things need to be made and seen to decide if they work or not.

Yes I know. Sorry

Ehm... the Shaman that you find in A7 is already called Krunk...

He is not that important. If it isnt to much work switch their names?

I added formatting because having quotes created wmllint problems.

Straight text will do or just italics

The halo is here for those players that keep Local Time of Day disabled. It's a technical reason.

Then the players that remove LToD should be penalised. The halos look a little ... odd.

Again, I added these recalls after your request. I'll remove them.

I know but it is sooo hard to just guess what will look good. Sorry again

This campaign has gone places under your management E_H. 3.0 is now in sight.

[Elvish_Hunter]

I think the maps are good though maybe bringing out the change in seasons with the grass colours would be good.

I added some of the new stone bridges in B4 and B5 (a so powerful human city must be able to build some of them). I haven't replaced all wooden bridges here 1) for variety 2) because the transition is not yet perfect.
Another thing: Tet, in this thread, made a Temple terrain. While I think that the columns are a bit too high (they should be half their height to not hide units), I think also that a corrected version of it may be an interesting addition for B4 and B5 (human city). What's your opinion?

No have it L0 and use L1 graphics. (Have it change its level like Kaleh does in UtBS)

Yesterday I looked to Kaleh's AMLA. And I'm also checking right now the wiki (I don't want to make the same mistake twice )
...
Checked. [effect] does not allow apply_to=level to raise level. So, I'll have to create three more variations: one for L1, one for L2 and one for L3. Same for the White Troll.

Not MORE scorpians! If you have to though you need to stop the cactoses being spawned within 8 hexes of the start in A1

Ah, ok. I see.

Try "Obscures" and see what comes.
NB: There are to many upgrades (you need over 1000 XP to fully advance him

When I first added this unit, it required about 320 XP to fully level. I'll add Obscure and try to see what I can do about XP. Maybe I'll remove the heal_full=yes from most advancements to compensate lowering XP requirements.

He is not that important. If it isnt to much work switch their names?

It isn't

Then the players that remove LToD should be penalised. The halos look a little ... odd.

Well then.
About making the tunnel in A4 longer, I modified the map. Maybe now it's a bit too longer, but I tried to make it about the same length that it had in the old A4. Of course, it is not yet finished.[map]border_size=1
usage=map

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This campaign has gone places under your management E_H. 3.0 is now in sight.

Good. If, for some time, nobody will have any major suggestion or bug report after 2.10.4, I'll try to add the difficult levels and, maybe, some Lua code, should I be able to learn enough of it and use it.

[Eros]

I added some of the new stone bridges in B4 and B5 (a so powerful human city must be able to build some of them). I haven't replaced all wooden bridges here 1) for variety 2) because the transition is not yet perfect.

Good

Another thing: Tet, in this thread, made a Temple terrain. While I think that the columns are a bit too high (they should be half their height to not hide units), I think also that a corrected version of it may be an interesting addition for B4 and B5 (human city). What's your opinion?

IMHO they are to large a scale by far (imagine the looks of one hex at that shape) The columns however might concievably be useful if we ever had a scenario inside.

When I first added this unit, it required about 320 XP to fully level. I'll add Obscure and try to see what I can do about XP. Maybe I'll remove the heal_full=yes from most advancements to compensate lowering XP requirements.

I agree and lump together some of the more boring advancements. Like I said only dont have two different types of melee upgrade and same for mudcrawler as well.

Well then.
About making the tunnel in A4 longer, I modified the map. Maybe now it's a bit too longer, but I tried to make it about the same length that it had in the old A4. Of course, it is not yet finished.

Good but. maybe the bats re set up camp nearer to the entrance? The thing is is that you ought to meet the bats say 2 turns befrore the other trolls this is to allow there to be time for a battle to begin between the stay at homes and the undead.

Good. If, for some time, nobody will have any major suggestion or bug report after 2.10.4, I'll try to add the difficult levels and, maybe, some Lua code, should I be able to learn enough of it and use it.

I am happy to help with difficulty levels. maybe we could aim for hard to be REALLY hard a bit like nightmare in NR?

[Eros]

Oh, and howabout incorporating the UMC troll castle? Not all the time but sometimes. Obviously B6 would be a bad place because where would they get the stones but A5 would be brill because there are, in my experience, a paucity of trees growing underground.