Brent (0.1.7) – for 1.9

[melinath]

I'm guessing the Water Sprite being only 2 turns away from the great tree is supposed to be there as a placeholder until you can move her to the north river, right? Because I gotten kinda confused as to why a Dryad would send you to find a Water Shyde that was that nearby...

I wrote the quest framework before I wrote the second quest, so it didn't quite fit the practical implementation. That was a bug and it's now fixed. Thanks!

Might want to consider bumping up some of the available choices for ALMAing, too...

I'll consider this, but it'll have to wait until there are a few more levels and quests available. For example, forest mastery one is useful, sure, but if you become anything but a ranger, you'll eventually (down the road) lose the effect. Concealment may seem useless now, but what if you're doing a quest in a city? Also, what about the lvl 2 abilities that are only available to thieves? It's not just a matter of what's useful at the moment. Well, right now, maybe it is. But that will change.

[Flameslash]

Scenario 1 is too hard. Make Brent stronger or give him an ally.

[melinath]

@Flameslash: I appreciate your concern. Could you perhaps post or send me a replay demonstrating what exactly makes the first scenario too hard?
I hesitate to add (more) helpers or make Brent stronger because I feel like he's already a bit overpowered.
Also, small thing, but could you phrase your suggestions as suggestions and not as demands?

[Flameslash]

@Flameslash: I appreciate your concern. Could you perhaps post or send me a replay demonstrating what exactly makes the first scenario too hard?
I hesitate to add (more) helpers or make Brent stronger because I feel like he's already a bit overpowered.
Also, small thing, but could you phrase your suggestions as suggestions and not as demands?

Would me telling you he was killed in 1 Turn by a WIld Beast do?

[melinath]

Would me telling you he was killed in 1 Turn by a WIld Beast do?

No. I'd prefer to have a replay. If you would rather just tell me what happened, I'd like to know at least the following information:
What kind of wild beast was it?
How many hit points did Brent have at the time?
How did Brent and the beast get so close to each other?
How many times did you try the scenario after he died? Have you ever successfully completed the scenario?

I know that the woods are difficult. It's a wild, dangerous area. Some of the beasts can kill you in one turn. They are scary and you are a weak level 0. However, I have played through the campaign a number of times (with normal settings) and not had an inordinate amount of trouble, except when I try to take on a bobcat or pack of wolves. The strategy is very different than ordinary Wesnoth. You have to care about your unit and it is hard.

If you think it's too hard, please provide more than a demand that I make it easier or a statement that Brent died in one turn (without saying whether it was a Tusker or a Rabbit, whether he had full health or 1hp, or providing any details on how the fight came to be).

[Flameslash]

Would me telling you he was killed in 1 Turn by a WIld Beast do?

No. I'd prefer to have a replay. If you would rather just tell me what happened, I'd like to know at least the following information:
What kind of wild beast was it?
How many hit points did Brent have at the time?
How did Brent and the beast get so close to each other?
How many times did you try the scenario after he died? Have you ever successfully completed the scenario?

I know that the woods are difficult. It's a wild, dangerous area. Some of the beasts can kill you in one turn. They are scary and you are a weak level 0. However, I have played through the campaign a number of times (with normal settings) and not had an inordinate amount of trouble, except when I try to take on a bobcat or pack of wolves. The strategy is very different than ordinary Wesnoth. You have to care about your unit and it is hard.

If you think it's too hard, please provide more than a demand that I make it easier or a statement that Brent died in one turn (without saying whether it was a Tusker or a Rabbit, whether he had full health or 1hp, or providing any details on how the fight came to be).

Brent had full HP, and was chasing a bobcat. I ended my Turn, came back to the computer and saw the Defeat message.

[melinath]

Thanks, Flameslash. I'm sorry, but I don't think I'll be making Brent stronger at this point. The problem you're having is more strategy than balance, I think. Chasing bobcats can be dangerous, since they do 6-3 damage and Brent has 17 hp. I recommend avoiding them.

This is partly a matter of personal preference/game philosophy. I will never put Brent in a situation where death is certain or likely, but I don't mind having the possibility of death force players to be a bit cautious. I file it under 'making the game interesting'; it's not my intent to make the game not fun. Even if Brent had more hitpoints, it would still be possible for him to die in one turn from full health (if, say, a bobcat and a rabbit happened to gang up on him). I could keep making him stronger and stronger, but at some point the game would just be too easy... one thing that this scenario has in common with mainline Wesnoth is that sometimes, really annoying stuff just happens.

[Darkaros]

...So your saying you don't know what killed him?

Anyway, just coming by to note that tuskers are bit strong for their respective levels. The level one tusker already has a 10-2 charge attack that has a high tendency of one hit killing. You almost might want to compare the tusker to the loyalist horseman and weaken accordingly. The entire forest was pretty easy for me when I got that awesome level two magic missile ability that absoultely barbecued rabbits, and the level one tusker didn't even bother to attack me. The easiest way to level up is to accept the fairy quest immediately, so you have a little pixie helper who can do (Very pittiful) supporting damage. In my opinion, Brent shouldn't get strengthened from how he is right now, just weaken some of the creatures. And more spawns. I ended game when I got magic missile, looked around, and realized and killed every single animal.

Edit: You posted before I did, drat.

[lu_zero]

I tried 0.1.1 and it seems having less stuff than before: the quests are apparently gone and returning to the forest gets you in an empty map....

[melinath]

I tried 0.1.1 and it seems having less stuff than before: the quests are apparently gone and returning to the forest gets you in an empty map....

I forgot to clear some variables + so the maps were trying to load brent at non-existant coordinates. Oh, and I think the quests was me including the wrong directory, so the quest macros weren't being loaded. Those are fixed now, as are some other bugs, and there's a new faerie quest!

@ Darkaros: I may consider adding more spawns in a future version... I haven't decided yet and have been working on other issues.
Right now, if you leave the map and then return to it, the forest will respawn.

As for the level one tusker, a comparison:
Tusker: 10-2 charge, 5 mvmt, 50%def/2mvp on forests
Horseman: 9-2 charge, 8mvmt, 30%def/2mvp on forests

So really, the horseman would kill Brent in one hit, too. The tusker, though, is slower than Brent, so he can always avoid it, even more so than the bobcat. Still, it is a little bit too strong. For now, I'll try lowering the tusker defense on grassland to 30% and in villages to 20%.

[CountPenguin]

Is something supposed to happen once you kill five flame things in the forest or have you not gotten to that part yet?

[melinath]

Erm. Yes... I did code that. Or rather, I tried to. Perhaps it doesn't work. Did you go back to the faerie leader?

[CountPenguin]

yes i did. when i went next to her she said "I hear you've killed 5 flame beasts"
then nothing else happened

also shouldnt Magic Missile be magic? if not id suggest renaming it

[melinath]

Thanks, Count Penguin. I hadn't noticed that the missiles weren't magic! I had some sort of weird special macro there... don't know where I got it. Fixed now.
The other thing should also be fixed. I put my macro inside the [variable] tag instead of the [then] tag. The rest of the relevant code looks all right, though I haven't tested it yet. Congratulations on killing 5 flame beasts, by the way! How far had you advanced?

General Note:
If anyone wants to, you're now welcome to design your own heroes. They won't get their own quests lines, but if they're good, they might be made playable as an alternative to Brent. I'll post details at the beginning of this thread.

[CountPenguin]

well i think i just got lucky actually. i had the forest movement/defense upgrade, +1 bow damage, reading (might have gotten later, i dont remember), and i think that's all