Forgotten Kingdom

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Roland de Ronceveaux
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Roland de Ronceveaux » June 25th, 2012, 5:24 pm

Hello,

Just a quick bug report (I haven't read the whole thread so it might have been reported already): on the "Crossing the border" scenario, nothing happens when Orlog walks on the crossed swords marker at the end of the road. I'm using Wesnoth v.1.10.2.

Also, just a suggestion: in "Red River", a marker should appear in the cave when Orlog says it's time to retreat. I know it might sound a bit silly, but I was looking for the cave/mine entrance standard hex and couldn't find it. I was about to quit in frustration when I noticed the horseshoe formation and thought it could be the cave.

Keep up the good work!

Cheers,

Roland

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Adamant14
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Adamant14 » June 25th, 2012, 7:08 pm

There is no crossed-swords marker, just a glowing rune. :hmm:
And the latest version works fine for me.
Please start the scenario new (from the start), and tell us what happened then.

Thank you :)
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alluton
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by alluton » October 6th, 2012, 7:32 am

Bug report from scenario 4. At the start of first 4 turns(atleas) I get message: Unable to jump into distance, troll scout falls into his knees. Also other of river guard goblins moved to village and abandoned castle.
"This game cured me of my real life addiction."
-Flameslash

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Adamant14
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Adamant14 » October 6th, 2012, 8:07 am

Are you sure it is scenario four?
Can you tell what version of Forgotten Kingdom you have installed?
Author of Antar, Son of Rheor ( SP Campaign) | Development Thread + Feedback Thread + Replays of ASoR

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AxalaraFlame
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 29th, 2012, 7:34 pm

This campaign is rather interesting at the begining, where you start with only gobolins. These wolf raids are rather unusual and interesting. Some scenerios are very challenging, but difficulty is controlled within the range of sanity. The orc/troll defense against human invasion is also a really variable and challenging scenerio. However, most of the cave scenerios are badly made and balanced. First of all, the maps are unusually and insanely huge (each of them!! ), villages are distributed everywhere. Most probably we don't even see the enemy until several turns later. Second, balance issue. The former few cave scenerios can save a lot of money by winning early finish bonus, even if on nightmare level; but the last two consume everyting. Finally, didn't you notice that we simply have TOO MANY cave scenerios here? And all of them are made of very big maps, more than dozens of separated villages, and long long long long turns of battles! That is not gonna be cool anyway, so...maybe cut a few out is a good way out.
The gobolin prison outbreak scenerio is insanely hard on nightmare. There are simply no enough villages to repair troppers to maintain income, and the turns limit refrained their oppotunities to charge. However, it is defeatable, if you have enough Lv2 riders/pillagers already.

Besides, units are rather imbalanced there. Lv2 troll berserkers and troll mountain already reached their maxium level, but they don't properly get AMLA. Runner is rather unnecessary to be leveled since they are really lame. Wrecker's berserk is really a strong stuff, too strong somehow. Tosser is really strong, but it reached a perfect balance with trolls after leveled, since their hp is not enough to protect themselves properly; I suggest to nerf them down a littel bit on lv1. For the gobolins, I have no idea what are we gonna to do with that $18 wolf+pack fury. They are really trashy by any means. This is another different comment comparing to what I made on HI in your campaign; what I mean trashy is, they are totally absoulutely compeletely useless With wolves and wolf riders in hand, pack fury wolves are really nothing but a decoration.

Chrysophylax
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Joined: October 19th, 2011, 2:42 pm

Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Chrysophylax » January 2nd, 2013, 6:37 pm

Bug report and solution: the message "Unable to jump the distance, the troll scout falls to his death..." appears at the beginning of the player's turn when playing as Orlog. This is because the unwalkable terrains have been given a movement cost of 5 for Runners and Explorers, so that they can jump across. There is a macro in the utils file for producing the mesage. Unfortunately, it is not properly constructed - it lacks a filter to check whether there is a troll that should fall. Inserting the following code after first_time_only=no and putting the kill and message tags in the then tag should solve the problem.

Code: Select all


    [if]
        [have_unit]
            type=Troll Runner, Troll Explorer
            [filter_location]
                terrain=Qxu
            [/filter_location]
        [/have_unit]

        [then]
#Put the [kill] and [message] tags here. 
        [/then]
    [/if]


Chrysophylax
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Chrysophylax » January 4th, 2013, 12:10 am

Bug report and fix: in scenario 8 ("Escape"), the Young Ogre in the fourth cage fails to switch to side 1 and remains hostile. This is because the line id=P46 (i.e. the 6th prisoner in cage 4) in the [unit] tag is followed by the line id=46, and so is not affected by the macro {SIDECHANGE P46}. Deleting the line id=46 will solve the problem.

In addition, the use of team_name is incorrect. The proper usage is team_name=friendly (or orcs, or player, or whatever you choose) and user_team_name=_"Prisoners". This will make the prisoners in the cages allied to the player, but will display them as prisoners. In general, it's a good idea to make sure that mistakes in your code will have minimal consequences. In this case, you're a lot more likely to make a typo in the fourty-eight times you need to use a prisoner's id than in the one time you define team_name.


Bug report and partial fix: the Troll Elder's shockwave attack is incorrectly constructed. It checks to ensure that a unit is not placed in impassable terrain, but not that it does not pass through such terrain. I sent several units through walls in scenario 7. This problem is caused by the use of find_vacant and the failure to check for passability beforehand. The solution is to insert code before the [unstore_unit] tag that prevents this. Checking for an empty space is easy - just use [have_unit] and the standard if-then-else construction. Checking for passability by hand is also fairly simple, but it's past midnight and I'm going to bed.

Also, when implementing this fix, change the variable manipulation by defining new_x and new_y, and operating on those. This means that the current position of the unit is still stored, and so you only have to do the operations once. (As currently written, the [then] tag would require doing the variable operations in reverse to get back to the starting hex.)

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Limabean
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Limabean » January 4th, 2013, 1:22 am

For the record, Forgotten Kingdom is abandoned and has been for quite a while :| . A while ago Adamant14 did a lot of work and even convinced me to do some too. Several things, like the wolf pack, shockwave for the troll elder, and more were added essentially on a whim and with minimal balance testing. Perhaps not the best decision, but it is what it is. I have no plans to continue with it, but if anyone wants to take over just pm me.
Chrysophylax wrote:Bug report and solution: the message "Unable to jump the distance, the troll scout falls to his death..." appears at the beginning of the player's turn when playing as Orlog. This is because the unwalkable terrains have been given a movement cost of 5 for Runners and Explorers, so that they can jump across. There is a macro in the utils file for producing the mesage. Unfortunately, it is not properly constructed - it lacks a filter to check whether there is a troll that should fall. Inserting the following code after first_time_only=no and putting the kill and message tags in the then tag should solve the problem.
That is fixed in the latest version. Unfortunately there was a period in which I thought I had uploaded the fixed version, but in fact I hadn't. If you downloaded during that period the error would still be there. Sorry for the inconvenience.
AxalaraFlame wrote:The gobolin prison outbreak scenerio is insanely hard on nightmare. There are simply no enough villages to repair troppers to maintain income, and the turns limit refrained their oppotunities to charge.
It's possible you have the older version. Adamant14 gave it an awesome makeover which is far more balanced than the one I originally designed
When a scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
-Arthur C. Clarke-

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AxalaraFlame
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by AxalaraFlame » January 4th, 2013, 10:59 am

Aha! You finally come back to bury this pit :mrgreen: Congradulations bro! (How's the holiday going recently?)

I was wrong for that scenerio being "insanely hard on nightmare". It shall be just "a bit too hard". I suggest to add a few more villages which firmly under our control and give more turns.

Hope you can finish this campaign successfully :wink: cheers

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Adamant14
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Adamant14 » January 4th, 2013, 1:20 pm

About the runner fall problem.
This code does it:

Code: Select all

#define RUNNER_FALL
	[event]
		name=moveto
		first_time_only=no
		[filter]
			type=Troll Runner, Troll Explorer
			[filter_location]
				terrain=Qxu,Ql,Qlf
			[/filter_location]
		[/filter]
		[message]
			speaker=narrator
			message="Note: If this unit ends its turn on an open chasm, it will fall to its death at the beginning of its next turn"
		[/message]
		[event]                                      ### nested event
			name=side 1 turn
			first_time_only=yes                      ### yes in this case
			[if]
				[have_unit]                          ### check if the unit isn't already killed by a adjacent enemy
					type=Troll Runner, Troll Explorer
					[filter_location]
						terrain=Qxu,Ql,Qlf
					[/filter_location]
				[/have_unit]
				[then]
					[kill]
						type=Troll Runner, Troll Explorer
						animate=yes
						[filter_location]
							terrain=Qxu,Ql,Qlf
						[/filter_location]
					[/kill]
					[message]
						speaker=narrator
						message="Unable to jump the distance, the troll scout falls to his death..."
					[/message]
				[/then]
			[/if]
		[/event]
	[/event]
#enddef
Just replace the old macro definition with this new one.
Author of Antar, Son of Rheor ( SP Campaign) | Development Thread + Feedback Thread + Replays of ASoR

Chrysophylax
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Chrysophylax » January 5th, 2013, 1:25 pm

I've taken over maintaining this campaign from Limabean. A new version should come out as soon as I'm done with university exams.

My first priorities are to fix the outstanding bugs and to correct the story text. After that, I plan to work on the unit and scenario balance a bit, and then start expanding the campaign!

Any comments, complaints and suggestions would be very welcome.

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AxalaraFlame
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by AxalaraFlame » January 10th, 2013, 7:03 am

Chrysophylax wrote:I've taken over maintaining this campaign from Limabean. A new version should come out as soon as I'm done with university exams.

My first priorities are to fix the outstanding bugs and to correct the story text. After that, I plan to work on the unit and scenario balance a bit, and then start expanding the campaign!

Any comments, complaints and suggestions would be very welcome.
Great!
Suggestions:
I strongly recommend you to cut those long and tedious cave scenerios hard and deep. Decreasing the size of the maps (largely) and delete those nearly-same scenerios would be great.
Honestly, I love the first few scenerios of gobos and trolls; but soon the campaign became a bit crappy in the endless caves...

And take care of that breakout scenerio. We might need more villages to cure wound and more turns to fend the elves off.

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Adamant14
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Adamant14 » January 10th, 2013, 5:05 pm

AxalaraFlame wrote:Suggestions:
I strongly recommend you to cut those long and tedious cave scenerios hard and deep. Decreasing the size of the maps (largely) and delete those nearly-same scenerios would be great.
There are currently three cave scenarios.

05_Slavedrivers:
Maybe the map is a bit to large, but it is not a bad scenario.
The only thing that I would change is the size of the map.

06_Chased Invaders:
Also a good scenario in my opinion.
I like the idea that you first have to fight only one enemy in front of you, and then in the middle of the scenario a second enemy suddenly appears right behind you. :mrgreen:
I like this scenario, but sadly it is a bit unbalanced.
The enemies are to strong.
I had heavy losses playing through this scenario. :(

07_Crossing the Border:
This is one of my favourite scenarios in this campaign.
Its a huge map, that's true,
and it takes time to play through it,
but it is fun to play it.
It is very well balanced, the map requires some tactic.
It is pretty funny how you can 'use' the enemy Dwarves to do the dirty work for you. :mrgreen:
AxalaraFlame wrote:Honestly, I love the first few scenerios of gobos and trolls; but soon the campaign became a bit crappy in the endless caves...
Why endless caves?
Only three scenarios. :)
And one of them really fun.
AxalaraFlame wrote:And take care of that breakout scenerio. We might need more villages to cure wound and more turns to fend the elves off.
I second this. This map needs more villages. And reduce the Elves village_gold. They gain 5 gold for each village.
Author of Antar, Son of Rheor ( SP Campaign) | Development Thread + Feedback Thread + Replays of ASoR

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AxalaraFlame
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by AxalaraFlame » January 31st, 2013, 7:49 pm

They gain 5 gold for each village.
what the hell :augh: I would be giving them at most 3.

It is a pity that we don't have healers throughout this whole campaign, so villages become extraordinarily important by some extent. Hope you can improve it sometime :wink:
Its a huge map, that's true,
and it takes time to play through it,
but it is fun to play it.
Sometimes a huge map could be as long as a small campaign inside itself. If there were not enough interesting elements or equipments involved, it would be very tedious, just like this one.
I still suppose that decreasing the sizes of these maps and shortening the scenerios would be better.
People always like to involve cave scenerios a lot, since they are mysterious and funny. But sometimes it might not be that interesting than we thought, especially those scenerios without interesting and progress-making plots



Besides, troll mountain and troll berserker shall not be able to level anymore, while their exp indicator continues to be blue after reached lv2, and they do not amla correctly. This bug needs to be corrected.


BR
Axa
Last edited by AxalaraFlame on February 7th, 2013, 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Chrysophylax
Posts: 36
Joined: October 19th, 2011, 2:42 pm

Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Chrysophylax » February 2nd, 2013, 8:00 pm

The campaign contains no events for giving extra gold at appropriate moments. Everything is based on gold-per-village values, which is a very bad thing and a high priority to change. Escape is particularly unbalanced in this respect, but fortunately also has other gameplay problems and makes little sense from a plot point of view, making it an easy scenario to improve (I hope!).

The number of underground scenarios is not something that can easily be fixed - the campaign is going to have a lot of underground fighting in the middle, and there's not much that can be done about that. What I do plan to do is reorder the scenarios, so that each leader usually has two consecutive combat scenarios. Using just the scenarios in their present states, that would make the scenario order like this:
Spoiler:
I think this will work much better for gameplay, but I also think it matches the revised plot better. Under this scheme, we would change viewpoint at each major event, which allows me to make some needed changes without creating completely new scenarios. It also makes better use of some things that are already included. For example, the surprise in Chased_Invaders does more to knit the story together in its new position.


Trolls don't need healers, but I agree that Gashnu really needs some, especially since his units are underpowered. I have an idea to solve this problem, although you'll still probably have to wait until Escape to get access to healers. The problems with the Troll Beserker and Troll Mountain should also be fixed pretty soon, as I plan to merge the unit lines in version 1.0. (It won't be anywhere near complete, but I plan to change from 0.x to 1.x when I stop maintaining Limabean's campaign and start updating our campaign.)

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