Forgotten Kingdom

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Limabean
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Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Limabean » December 31st, 2008, 11:30 pm

This is my first cmpaign and it is centered around trolls as well as orcs in general. There are two main characters: 1. Orlog, a troll chieftan and 2. Gashnu, a wolf rider. They both start out as underlings to the same orcish warlord but get separated after a human invasion ( original, I know :wink: ). Orlog and his trolls retreat underground where they do some things (i'll let you figure out the details) before returning to the surface. Gashnu remains on the surface and accomplishes some equally exciting things. They will eventually meet up for a few scenarios and a final conclusion.

I have essentially made a whole custom troll faction. Hopefullyy it will make the troll half of the campaign a bit more exciting than simply spamming whelps. I have made sprites (all frankensteining, god bless whoever made all those troll animations) for all the level 1 units and about half of the level 2 units. Finishing up the level 2s and making the level 3s will of course be on my to-do list along with finishing the campaign itself.

So far I have seven scenarios completed (uploaded to the add-on list) and plan a total of 18 so I still have a ways to go.
Anyway, I really need player feedback on a number of things:
--Difficulty. Is each level too easy/hard? Are they fun or just frustrating?
--Unit Balance. Are there any changes you think would improve my custom units? Are any of them underpowered/overpowered?
--Dialogue. I basically gave up trying to make the trolls actually talk like trolls. Are you satisfied with the dialogue or do you think it's important to give the characters the correct "dialects"?

I hope you enjoy it. :D

EDIT: Actually, I just tested to make sure everything was included in the add-on and I seem to be having unit problems. :(
I have put all the unit WML in userdata/data/campaigns/Forgotten_Kingdom/units like I have seen it organized in mainline campaigns. However, the game doesn't recognize my units when I try to play. I'v removed it from the add-ons until I can fix the problem. Does anyone know the correct location for units when uploading an add-on? I'm pretty sure it's just a folder problem.
Last edited by Limabean on December 31st, 2008, 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When a scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
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Turuk
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Turuk » December 31st, 2008, 11:35 pm

Limabean wrote:Orlog and his trolls retreat underground where they do some things (i'll let you figure out the details) before returning to the surface.
:lol2:
Immature I know, but I'm tired/jet lagged and this struck me as hilarious.

On a serious note, I will give it a whirl soon and post up some feedback. Added it the User-Made Campaign List.

EDIT:
Where is it exactly? I cannot find it.
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

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Limabean
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Limabean » January 1st, 2009, 3:08 am

I edited my first post. I'm having some problem with the units.
Anyway, i'm going to attach it to this post. If the game doesn't recognize a unit just copy and paste the units folder from my campaign (userdata/data/campaigns/Forgotten_Kingdom/units) into userdata/data/. Everything should work fine after that.
sorry for the trouble.
Attachments
Forgotten_Kingdom.zip
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When a scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
-Arthur C. Clarke-

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Limabean
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Limabean » January 1st, 2009, 4:16 pm

Ok, thanks to Turuk it is now on the add-on menu. :)
You should probably download from there instead of here.
When a scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
-Arthur C. Clarke-

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Turuk
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Turuk » January 1st, 2009, 4:38 pm

I am play testing your campaign, and on the first scenario I ran into a bit of a snafu. I keep getting mauled by the enemy as blue really does not attack green and me, but just goes for me, so the two of them manage to kill my units off pretty quickly The lack of recruiting makes it rather difficult to rectify the situation.

Is there some trick to this that I am missing? I am going back to try some more.
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

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Limabean
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Limabean » January 1st, 2009, 5:04 pm

What I usually do is hang back in the mountains, just out of reach of the peasant, for just one turn. The result is that green attacks at about the same time I do and blue splits his troops fairly evenly. Usually together green and I can kill most of blue's troops. If you get lucky it's possible to beat both green and blue in that first night. Otherwise, you can retreat back to the mountains for a turn during the day. This allows blue to mop the floor with green while you're gone.

I find that if you get a chance, it is very important to capture or burn (Horn burns villages and gives 25 gold when he moves on them) as many of the villages as you can. If you let blue keep his initial large income he will just keep recruiting and eventually win.

Do you think adding a castle to recruit on would help? I wouldn't mind adding a keep with 1 recruitment tile.
When a scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
-Arthur C. Clarke-

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Turuk
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Turuk » January 1st, 2009, 5:08 pm

Hmm fair enough. I guess the main issue is that the player does not know that green exists until they engage with blue, and so I was too decisively engaged to make a clean break back to the mountain.

When I did get back my second try around, blue basically chased me so that green wiped the floor with him, and then came to finish killing me off (as I had been busy fighting off blue). The bit about Horn is useful, but perhaps a bit too subtle (I did not realize that was an effect). I know the dialogue mentions that bit about the villages, but it is easy for the player to pass it off as just dialogue, and not a gameplay function.

I will try it your way, and see how it goes.
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

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Limabean
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Limabean » January 1st, 2009, 5:53 pm

hmmm, you make a good point about green. I might make green start a bit closer so they will attack a turn earlier and the player won't have to wait. Hopefully this will also make it easier for the player to retreate if necessary.

Edit: also, here's a replay of the first level if you're stuck.
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Turuk » January 2nd, 2009, 4:35 am

Yeah, I mean, I went back and played the way you suggested and had no problem winning. Chances are 50/50 that the player might be able to do so as well, but they might not even be that high just due the to the placement of green and when the player encounters them. I know you said you will try to deal with this a bit, but I think that after a player has played through the scenario once and encountered green, it drastically alters how the player will approach the scenario if they fail and have to give it a second go (which is never good, as it means the effective tactic is not easily discernible).

Scenario 2
-A few spelling errors in the Intro story dialogue.

Not a bad setup, I enjoyed the map, and it makes for an interesting play experience. While the enemy has the numbers (and reinforcements) on their side, the superior mobility advantage given to the player and the avenues of approach level the playing field while still providing a challenge. I also like that the player needs to move aggressively in order to kill the leaders, and the longer the scenario progresses, the more danger the player is in of getting surrounded.

Scenario 3
-Our wolves not Are wolves
-When Horn speaks at one point, there is a - in front of the dialogue.
-C'mon not c'mon (capitalization)
-You're right not Your right

Scenario 4
-At the beginning of the Scenario, an empty and tiny dialogue box appears next to your troll leader? This, I feel, means that the player is missing important plot points.
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

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Limabean
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Limabean » January 2nd, 2009, 3:27 pm

Ok, i'll get to work :)
Scenario 4
-At the beginning of the Scenario, an empty and tiny dialogue box appears next to your troll leader? This, I feel, means that the player is missing important plot points.
Actually, I think those boxes were created because I used [object]s to give the river guards 0 movement. Notice there are six boxes to click past and 6 guards with 0 movement. Unfortunately, I don't know how to fix the problem. I've tried using [modifications] on the guards but that doesn't work. any ideas?
When a scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Turuk » January 2nd, 2009, 3:58 pm

Not entirely sure, but this might help to point you in the right direction.

http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 44#p305944

Working through Scenario 4 now, and I like the setup. I would check the spelling on this one as well though. Overall, great map and the big battle with the enemy forces while holding the crossings is a great idea. More detailed feedback when I'm through.
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

ruebezahl
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by ruebezahl » January 5th, 2009, 9:29 am

About the problems with images for new units: you need to rename some of the image-files in the subfolders of campaigns/Forgotten_Kingdom/images/units from PNG (UPPERCASE) to png. Because that's how they are referred to in the cfg-files. Some operating systems are case sensitive, you know ... ;)

btw: I enjoy playing this campaign!
Actually, I just tested to make sure everything was included in the add-on and I seem to be having unit problems. :(
I have put all the unit WML in userdata/data/campaigns/Forgotten_Kingdom/units like I have seen it organized in mainline campaigns. However, the game doesn't recognize my units when I try to play. I'v removed it from the add-ons until I can fix the problem. Does anyone know the correct location for units when uploading an add-on? I'm pretty sure it's just a folder problem.

Earworthm
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Earworthm » January 6th, 2009, 5:27 pm

I've come up to scenario 4, and all I can say is that I really enjoy your work!

Just a few suggestions :
- Scenario 1 : you could perhaps make appear in the dialogs that Horn can earn you gold with villages, and suggest the player when the green appear to retreat and let the others fight. I agree with Turuk that it is better if you do nott have to replay the scenario playing while knowing this.
- Scenario 2 : When it began the purple leader chose a different path than the two other ones, and, when the green one became the only remaining alive, he just retreated to the little fort in the north-east, where he was quite easy surrounded. Is that normal?
- And in the fourth, I was able to recall the mounted goblins of the first scenarios. Is it normal again?

Otherwise I have not finisthed the fourth one, just continue this way!

(sorry for the faults...)

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Limabean
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Limabean » January 7th, 2009, 12:11 am

Earworthm wrote:- Scenario 1 : you could perhaps make appear in the dialogs that Horn can earn you gold with villages, and suggest the player when the green appear to retreat and let the others fight. I agree with Turuk that it is better if you do nott have to replay the scenario playing while knowing this.
I agree as well and have already made changes which will be included in the next version. :)
- Scenario 2 : When it began the purple leader chose a different path than the two other ones, and, when the green one became the only remaining alive, he just retreated to the little fort in the north-east, where he was quite easy surrounded. Is that normal?
tbh, I actually want the leaders to take different paths (although it doesn't happen all the time) because that makes it more interesting and difficult.
It is normal for the leader(s) to retreat to the fort although i have been thinking about ways to change this. I might just make the castle disappear after a certain amount of time. :hmm:
- And in the fourth, I was able to recall the mounted goblins of the first scenarios. Is it normal again?
oh, I hadn't noticed that. :oops:
I think it might be related to the side switching problem I've mentioned here:
http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=23546
I'll try using save_ids, hopefully that will fix it.

Also, about the next release: I'm currently working on scenario 8 and am about half-way done. I plan on uploading the next version with all these fixes we've discussed when I finish that level. I'm very busy in RL so I don't have a huge amount of time for wesnoth. :cry:
If the scenario seems to be taking too long I might just decide to upload the changes on the earlier scenarios. Anyway, i'll see what happens.
When a scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
-Arthur C. Clarke-

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Turuk
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Re: Forgotten Kingdom

Post by Turuk » January 7th, 2009, 3:29 pm

Just got through Scenario 4 and into 5, and a few thoughts.

Scenario 4
-Excellent map design, I loved the idea of the tribe of trolls/orcs fighting the humans at the ford and holding them off just long enough to escape.
-Problem comes in the fact that not only is the player sure they have to head south, but the sudden spawn of so many green troops/mercenaries in the way made it a close run thing. If I had had any less units... As it was, I only had about 12 left, and it was 5 and the leader that made a break for the cave (only ones close enough). I made it but my other forces got chewed to shreds.
-Green really does not need so many new troops. Or, spawn them on the castle but have them stay there. It got to the point where I was waiting for 97 green units to move before I could move my 7. That makes the AI turn take forever.
-Recall list is busted, the units multiply. To avoid an unfair advantage as I did not know how many were really mine, I did not recall any units (and still won.)

Scenario 5
-Not too far in yet, but there is a serious recall list issue. I believe that it has multiplied yet again, and so the number of units I have is amazing. Maybe this is intentional? But I do not think so.
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

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