1.14 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.2.8

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jani
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Re: Campaign: A Rough Life

Post by jani » December 7th, 2008, 1:34 pm

Ou i see it too now, but as orcish shyde said it would be nice if you would remove the turn limit coz it takes something like 36 turns to move kyoko

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Turuk
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Re: Campaign: A Rough Life

Post by Turuk » December 7th, 2008, 6:17 pm

Version 0.9.3 is now uploaded to the add-on server for Wesnoth 1.4.

This addresses some of the bugs/issues that have been posted, and the corrections are noted below. I encourage you to continue playing through or play through again in order to see if they fix the problems. Some of these changes have been tested by me, some of them have not simply due to their nature, so if something persists or you find that the fix is not adequate, please let me know. Thanks to Orcish Shyde for properly documenting issues.


General Changes:
-Less reliance on Saurians in the desert levels, though they still offer an advantage. Note that in later levels, dwarves help to offset this as well.
-Kyoko and Luxor have silver crowns to denote their Hero status.
-Luxor and Choki are now named as such, instead of just their respective unit names.

Scenario 1
- Map reworked to make the player less likely to rush peasant's to hold fort.
Scenario 3
- Map reworked to include "remnants" of old road to make the use of non-Saurians more efficient.
Scenario 4
- Code fixed so the save file is different from Scenario 2.
Scenario 5
- Map reworked in accordance with the measures taken for Scenario 3.
Scenario 7
- Enemy units moved to surround Jacques and his band, thus making it easier to protect Kyoko without save loading.
- Identified and fixed the problem with Kyoko starting with less than full HP.
Scenario 8
- Night Guardian given skeletons to recruit, no more pesky spirits.
- The Lord Protector now comes out to play.
-Luxor now talks as Luxor, and not as just his unit title.
Scenario 11
-Turns increased to 80
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Jacques_Fol
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Re: Campaign: A Rough Life

Post by Jacques_Fol » December 29th, 2008, 9:52 pm

What a pleasant surprise!

It has been months since I had the time to even think of Wesnoth, but Christmas holidays finally gave me some time to think of such pastimes again. And, lo and behold, someone took a liking to my little campaign.

Many thanks, Turuk, both for the initial appreciation (many flaws notwithstanding) and for the kind decision to take over the chores in polishing it up. By all means, I gratefully applaud the decision and am happy to see it picked up.

Also, thanks to Orcish Shyde for taking the time to play and comment. While it may be useful for me to add a few more explanatory remarks as to what I had in mind when I first devised the campaign, I can only start by agreeing with all the constructive criticism. As it left my hands, the campaign was far from polished. It was a newby attempt at programming and took me a good three weeks to complete from scratch, three weeks at a time when I could take a break from real life. As I was afraid I would not have the time to work on it after that period, I made an effort to complete it so that it could be played. Before Turuk showed up, however, it was probably way too unbalanced, especially in the Shadows scenario, and showed all the limitations of an inexperienced coder.

That said, however, the ending was rather deliberate, storywise. The "good" ending is open-ended on purpose; a touch of real life in that one usually doesn't get all the answers or a final closure. (Rather that than the movie-climactic "happy end" which may in fact often also be the "end of happiness", at least for the viewer of not also for the characters themselves.) The "bad" ending is an inevitable consequence of the gnawing that gets the better of Jacques - if one is going to be plagued by doubts and ultimate fears as much as Jacques is (if "he" chooses that ending), it only takes the smallest of sparks to wreak havoc with his psyche.

However, I would be happy to see another scenario in the "good" ending if Turuk felt inclined to conjure it, and may even give some suggestions on how to do it if I think of a good idea. (The bricks for the story are all there, buried under the sand, and it's just a matter of putting them together.)

Otherwise, congratulations on the little touch-ups to the maps, Turuk, and on the good bug-fixing skills. Having replayed the new-and-improved campaign, I see that some are still there, but I could easily get to the (bad) ending without a glitch.

As for the character transformations, they were also governed by the easy-way-out principle of a newby programmer - I took what was already there in terms of images and programming and only played ever so slightly with changing the stats for Jacques and Kyoko. The animations for the UtBS character must have already been messed up in the original, as I only copied them from there. That said, I will be happy to see both characters get facelifts if Turuk deems fit to do so. And for a slightly different point: Kyoko (the ever-cloning figure that she still is) should normally be very weak throughout the first scenario we spot her; but as I played today, she soon healed and was rearing to go into the heat of the battle. Don't know if I already programmed it badly myself or if this was changed, but the idea was for her to be fragile and in need of protection throughout that scenario.

Finally, a question on the little details that may be easy to miss but should add a little spice to it all, and that is a question for the players more so than for the maintainer:

- When Kyoko gets back home for the first time, would she normally end up being attacked by (or even attacking) the Dragon? The intention was for her to possibly do so.

- Will one normally be visiting the little villages at the North of the Shadowlands before killing both masters? It was devised to be a useful surprise.

- Would a player usually figure out the story behind the little village at the very right in the middle of the final map, and is it useful?

I suppose that is enough for now. Once again, many thanks, Turuk, and, for what it's worth, welcome to continue making it a more enjoyable pastime for all who may stumble upon it.

And, of course, enjoy the holidays!

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Re: Campaign: A Rough Life

Post by Turuk » December 30th, 2008, 3:10 am

It's nice that you are back!

I could not help but resurrect your campaign when I found it on the add-on server, I did indeed enjoy it from the start. I regret taking your work away from you, but I wanted to keep working on the campaign, and I am glad that you have enjoyed my fixes so far. If you want to take this back over, or even do this jointly, then by all means, let me know. I would love for the original creator to take it back over or have a hand in the work, as it is completely your idea.

Being the organized type, I have a numbered and color coded list of the all the current problems/bugs and their level of completion. I can certainly PM it to you if you are interested. I have been a bit busy myself/stumped over the larger problems, so I have not been able to do much work on them recently.
Jacques_Fol wrote:However, I would be happy to see another scenario in the "good" ending if Turuk felt inclined to conjure it, and may even give some suggestions on how to do it if I think of a good idea. (The bricks for the story are all there, buried under the sand, and it's just a matter of putting them together.)
Fire away, I'd love to flesh out your idea/help you put it into action.
Jacques_Fol wrote:Otherwise, congratulations on the little touch-ups to the maps, Turuk, and on the good bug-fixing skills. Having replayed the new-and-improved campaign, I see that some are still there, but I could easily get to the (bad) ending without a glitch.
Thanks. :) I still have my work cut out, I know, but it's nice that it is working well so far.
Jacques_Fol wrote:As for the character transformations, they were also governed by the easy-way-out principle of a newby programmer - I took what was already there in terms of images and programming and only played ever so slightly with changing the stats for Jacques and Kyoko. The animations for the UtBS character must have already been messed up in the original, as I only copied them from there. That said, I will be happy to see both characters get facelifts if Turuk deems fit to do so. And for a slightly different point: Kyoko (the ever-cloning figure that she still is) should normally be very weak throughout the first scenario we spot her; but as I played today, she soon healed and was rearing to go into the heat of the battle. Don't know if I already programmed it badly myself or if this was changed, but the idea was for her to be fragile and in need of protection throughout that scenario.
Art does need work, but I put that fix to the back burner in order to fix some of the other problems. As for the Kyoko part, that was not programmed by you, that was a change by me done when players pointed out that she was killed by the trolls too easily in the scenario. I can easily shoot it back down, possibly make it something that gives her less health but still enough to survive a few hits.


That being said, coding is not my strength, so if you would love to take it back over or help, that would be greatly appreciated. :)
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Jacques_Fol
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Re: Campaign: A Rough Life

Post by Jacques_Fol » January 1st, 2009, 9:49 pm

Alas, real life will continue to be a problem, time-wise, so I can be only grateful if someone else finds it worthwhile to take over the torch.

I have to hand it to Wesnoth, though, as I am not at all into computer-programming and nowadays for the most part not even into computer-playing, but the game somehow found its way onto my laptop and then lured me into setting myself a dare: "Could I actually make a campaign?" My effort, flawed as it was, is a testament to Wesnoth's appeal.

That said, I have given the final scenario in the "good" ending some initial thought, and have an idea that still needs to be molded but might work. Once I come up with a workable outline, I'll gladly give you a rundown (perhaps via a PM to avoid giving away too many spoilers) and then you can decide whether and how to proceed, Turuk.

And have a good year, everyone!

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Turuk
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Re: Campaign: A Rough Life

Post by Turuk » January 1st, 2009, 10:00 pm

I can certainly understand and respect that, and I will be happy to carry on maintaining the campaign and ironing out the bugs. For what it's worth, I thought you made a good effort for your first campaign, and anything others enjoy is always worth it.

That sounds ok to me, any ideas for that final scenario or anything else you have in the campaign, please feel free to PM me.
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Jacques_Fol
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Re: Campaign: A Rough Life

Post by Jacques_Fol » January 10th, 2009, 6:18 pm

This post has two labels: *HELP WELCOME* & *PRE-SPOILER WARNING*.

It all has to do with the possible added finale in the "good" ending to the campaign, first alluded to by Turuk and Orcish Shyde and perhaps on the minds of others who have tried the campaign. Could one come up with a more fulfilling ending to the story? Is there more to be told?

As it happens, there is. :-)

The story requires more and actually offers it all on a plate. And therein lies the rub, for neither Turuk who has kindly taken over the helm nor I myself have the time and/or expertise to do it full justice, so we would appreciate help in completing the tale. So, should you wish to assist in the telling of this tale to its end (and are roughly familiar with the existing story), read on.

Turuk and I have already looked at an idea for the final scenario(s); I'm the one outlining it here as the basic draft is my own, but I expect Turuk will improve and amend it as necessary as he directs the effort to fruition. In any event, here is a brief outline:

*HERE BE SPOILERS*

In the "good" ending, Jacques and Kyoko decide to establish their home in the Shadowlands and make the valley hospitable again. That is fine in itself, but we already know from the story that this desert plain was once a fertile valley. What happened?

The answer that the dwarves give to Jacques is as simple as it is astounding: the river is still there, only now it flows underground, from the mountain range in the Northeast where it disappears into the ground all the way beneath the Shadowlands towards the caves that were Ruphulus's abode. The river has been used by the dwarves to send the rafts with the "shipments" of the mage's undead army downstream, but as the spent life was washed away underground, so was it washed away above ground. You take water out of a fertile valley and you turn it into a desert.

To do so, Ruphulus hired a band of mountain brutes to block the existing river bed and divert the river underground. The end result was that there is an area in the mountains where a dam has been built, a makeshift lake has formed and a canal has been built that sends the water underground. All that Jacques and company have to do is find this place and break the dam, and Shadowlands will become a fertile valley with a river once more.

Fortunately, the Trolls and Ogres maintaining the dam have become restless, since Ruphulus has defaulted on his last payments, and a small band of them comes to the Shadowlands to investigate. Forewarned, Jacques springs on them with his soldiers and captures them (which could be a mini scenario in itself!). He learns of the location of the lake and sets out with his troops to make things right.

Before he leaves, however, he consults the Book of Prophecies, and learns (in cryptic ways) that there are two ways to quench the valley's thirst: by force, which will require the threat of death for many, or by cunning, which will require certain death for a few. As always, the choice is for Jacques to make...

***

What we have so far is a few more details on the actual execution of this last scenario (with the general idea of what is meant by the "cunning" way to win it), and a rough draft of the map. What we lack in is time and coding skills to do it proper justice (eg, there is an element with the water level rising and such, although the coding for that might be helped by UtBS or some such campaign), so help in terms of coding this last big scenario would be much appreciated.

As stated above, I will let Turuk take over from here, as this revival of interest in the campaign and its diminishing bug count is all his doing, and he is now its proper guardian and maintainer. I can only conclude again by saying a big thank-you to him as well as to all who have stumbled upon and liked the campaign so far, its flaws notwithstanding.

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Cernunnos
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Re: Campaign: A Rough Life

Post by Cernunnos » January 11th, 2009, 1:33 am

Hi,

Nice campaign and nice work done by both the creator and the maintainer :)

Feedback from a player:

1) This is a really hard campaign, I only tested in Medium, so I can't even imagine the Hard part.
2) This is a really hard campaign but you always finish a scenario around the last turns you have (but scenario 5 so far, this is where i lost), so it make the game quite exciting in the way that you don't always know if you'll be able to make it or not.

Don't read if you wanna play this campaign:

Scenario 1: (Hard in Medium mode, died at turn 16) Goblins attack the mud while goblin leader tell them not to. Anyway this is preferable this way since you are able to run while each side fights the mud. But the dialogue and the gameplay don't match here...

Scenario 2: (Easy in Medium mode, no loss) I think you should be able to fight the beasts alone, without all those swordsmen, or at least, not 8 to 10 swordsmen, you can even flee and let them do the job...

Scenario 3: (Medium) The roads are great, since without them, it would have been impossible, great change here.

Scenario 4: (Relaoded :P ) When I read "Kill the leader or survive", I chose to survive the 12 required turns, but without any will i killed the enemy leader at turn 7 or so, nice scenario.

Scenario 5: (Hard to impossible) OK, i tried only once, but killing a 150/44hp (which is a bug?) griffon at turn 35/36 and seeing your leader say: " Yeah! Just one more left!" is really discouraging. I only spotted the top left griffon which do not move and recruit trolls only, but i wasn't able to find the other leader... (So maybe the map must be designed in another way like go far east then go north, but i headed straight north so i have seen one leader only...)

Well that's all i will test tonight, i don't like this much losing in this kind of situation, i'll eventually test some more later.
So, overall, good changes, good dialogues, not many bugs, maybe a little difficult (or maybe i'm just a bad player :o )

Great work! bye.

+ Maybe some of the people who join you in scenario 4 coud be recall-able in scenario 5? (but do as you want, since one can understand the fact they don't join as they can be in another hunting party etc...)
"While portrait art may be where Wesnoth gets its glamour, and sprite art may be where Wesnoth gets its zest, it's the terrain art that's so crucial to Wesnoth's polish - it's the canvas that the rest goes on." Sangel

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Re: Campaign: A Rough Life

Post by Turuk » January 11th, 2009, 1:38 am

Cernunnos wrote:Scenario 5: (Hard to impossible) OK, i tried only once, but killing a 150/44hp (which is a bug?) griffon at turn 35/36 and seeing your leader say: " Yeah! Just one more left!" is really discouraging. I only spotted the top left griffon which do not move and recruit trolls only, but i wasn't able to find the other leader... (So maybe the map must be designed in another way like go far east then go north, but i headed straight north so i have seen one leader only...)
It is meant to be hard, but for what it's worth, there is a scorpion leader to the southeast, did you take it out as well? It should be easy to talk to the wose, go after the scorpion leader, and then head north for the gryphon. IIRC, the Wose's dialogue hints as to where both leaders can be found.

The massive amount of health is no bug, but I can tone it down a bit if it is too hard for players to kill him.
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Re: Campaign: A Rough Life

Post by Cernunnos » January 11th, 2009, 1:45 am

The massive amount of health is no bug, but I can tone it down a bit if it is too hard for players to kill him.
No problem there, just the fact the griffon has 150/44hp instead of 150/150hp...
It is meant to be hard, but for what it's worth, there is a scorpion leader to the southeast, did you take it out as well? It should be easy to talk to the wose, go after the scorpion leader, and then head north for the gryphon. IIRC, the Wose's dialogue hints as to where both leaders can be found.
I haven't seen no single wose nor tree of any kind lol...

Hum, just a though, is it design for 1.5? Because I play in 1.4 so maybe it could be why i have this problem here?
"While portrait art may be where Wesnoth gets its glamour, and sprite art may be where Wesnoth gets its zest, it's the terrain art that's so crucial to Wesnoth's polish - it's the canvas that the rest goes on." Sangel

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Re: Campaign: A Rough Life

Post by Turuk » January 11th, 2009, 1:57 am

Cernunnos wrote:No problem there, just the fact the griffon has 150/44hp instead of 150/150hp...
Ok, I will look into it.
Cernunnos wrote:I haven't seen no single wose nor tree of any kind lol...

Hum, just a though, is it design for 1.5? Because I play in 1.4 so maybe it could be why i have this problem here?
Maybe I will have to design better clues. No, it is for 1.4, I have not ported it to 1.5.

Head to the oasis in the northeast, the lovely water in the middle of the trees. That might help you out. ;)
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Re: Campaign: A Rough Life

Post by eccentricity » January 19th, 2009, 8:55 pm

for some reason, if i kill the gryphon first and then interact with the woses, the rubble refuses to work correctly. i'm not sure why this is happening. if i interact with the woses before i kill the gryphon, then i can trigger the rubble.

other than this, i'm really enjoying the campaign.

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Re: Campaign: A Rough Life

Post by Turuk » January 19th, 2009, 9:05 pm

Glad to hear you are enjoying it. :D

Hmm, the problem is that the player is supposed to trigger the wose event before going after either of the animal leaders, and while the gryphon is always present, the scorpion spawn will only work if the player has talked to the woses.

I will try to include a bit of dialogue hinting that the player should make for the oasis first or some such, or hide the gryphon from the player entirely until needed.
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eccentricity
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Re: Campaign: A Rough Life

Post by eccentricity » January 19th, 2009, 9:26 pm

also, i noticed that when you are fighting the dragon, kyoko does not retain experience, which seems puzzling. it seemed strange to me that the units accompanying me were similar to my "loyal" units but had no names or xp. arbor also is not named, which was confusing at first.

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Re: Campaign: A Rough Life

Post by Turuk » January 19th, 2009, 9:29 pm

eccentricity wrote: also, i noticed that when you are fighting the dragon, kyoko does not retain experience, which seems puzzling. it seemed strange to me that the units accompanying me were similar to my "loyal" units but had no names or xp. arbor also is not named, which was confusing at first.
The first time that you fight it, or the second? I will look into that.

As to the units with no name or exp, those are to show that there are numerous slaves working in the underground kingdom. You end up seeing the same units however due to the fact that all of the hunting parties would follow a standard of containing certain units.
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