1.14 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.2.8

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melinath
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.99

Post by melinath » September 4th, 2009, 11:34 pm

lostnumber wrote:Its a not an uncommon word by any means, and I have never heard of a phrase like "usurp his neighbors land".
Fun as it is to watch your dialogue, I would like to jump in and mention that I read this and thought, "That's odd. The phrase 'usurp his neighbor's land' sounds entirely normal to me". I'm a little more modern than John Donne, but in any case, Jacques is going for archaic, so it's not a problem that his sources are old.

lostnumber
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.99

Post by lostnumber » September 5th, 2009, 6:15 am

melinath wrote:
lostnumber wrote:Its a not an uncommon word by any means, and I have never heard of a phrase like "usurp his neighbors land".
Fun as it is to watch your dialogue, I would like to jump in and mention that I read this and thought, "That's odd. The phrase 'usurp his neighbor's land' sounds entirely normal to me". I'm a little more modern than John Donne, but in any case, Jacques is going for archaic, so it's not a problem that his sources are old.

And here I was thinking about helping balance the steelhive, and then you gotta go and undermine me :evil:

Jacques_Fol
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.99

Post by Jacques_Fol » September 5th, 2009, 7:53 am

lostnumber wrote:And here I was thinking about helping balance the steelhive, and then you gotta go and undermine me :evil:
Ah, lostnumber, take it like a man/woman/number! :twisted:

But seriously: thank you for your input, melinath, and I'm glad you find it interesting to follow the dialogue (taking you at your word that it is fun to watch!). But I'm all for making it into a debate, so you're welcome to comment on other aspects (ie the possible weaknesses of the ARL writing) whenever you feel like it.

And for two substantive points:

First, don't worry, lostnumber, melinath's comment doesn't undermine you. I was already certain that there are a number of people out there - even today, even among the younger generation - who find no fault with such use of "usurp" (and may even like it!), just as I was that there are a number of those who do.

And, more importantly, while it is most flattering for ARL to receive such detailed scrutiny, I should say that my writing of the story was an entirely spontaneous affair rather than a carefully planned writing project. Much of the reasoning offered now is offered to justify the impromptu usage of a certain idiom post facto raher than explain why it was chosen in the first place.

For the same reason, the writing still includes some glaring mistakes that I should not let pass if this were a serious real-life paper. And finally, it may explain why the story does not inform the reader up front of where it's going - because the story itself doesn't know! I wrote it from one scenario to the next and I was a little surprised myself when it all clicked together rather nicely in the end, as users seem to agree.

So, the bottomline: the text needs a proper revision, and I am most grateful to you for "forcing" me to undertake it, lostnumber. You also highlighted several failings that I probably wouldn't have noticed myself, and in those cases I will happily apply your suggested fixes. At the same time, each of us is a little different when it comes to style and storytelling, and in those instances personal preferences will have to decide the issue.

lostnumber
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.99

Post by lostnumber » September 6th, 2009, 12:24 am

Fate has made a liar of me :(

The comp is trashed so this is going to have to be put on hold indefinitely.

Hopefully I'll be able to get it fixed sooner rather then later, but it might take up to a few weeks.

Kenpachi
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.99

Post by Kenpachi » September 6th, 2009, 11:00 am

I sat down and played this through to scenario 11

I have on main gripe with it.
The best unit to recruit (the Saurian Augur) is that much better than all of the other units in 99% of fight situations.
Equal or better defenses on all of the terrains;
magic damage;
better movement ability;
they are your healing units;
they level easy, making even the level 2 units able to be used as canon fodder.

Hence they were all I needed to recruit.
Most of the other unit types I recruited didn't even make it to a fight, as they were to slow.

Jacques_Fol
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.99

Post by Jacques_Fol » September 6th, 2009, 11:14 am

lostnumber wrote:Fate has made a liar of me :(
But of course rebus sic stantibus was implied, so such a change of circumstances excuses it all. I just hope it's not a serious problem with the computer. Good luck fixing it!

Ahh, and a new post just went up. Thanks for your feedback, Kenpachi!
Kenpachi wrote:I have on main gripe with it.
The best unit to recruit (the Saurian Augur) is that much better than all of the other units in 99% of fight situations.
You may be right, and it has been mentioned before, I just never got round to addressing this issue. When I played it, I was happy to recruit different units just for diversity's sake (as I always do in campaigns), but I can see how an optimal playing strategy in the desert might be heavily focused on the Augurs.

I do wonder how a Saurian-heavy army works in scenario 11 - I would have expected that lack of other veteran units could be a setback here, but then again maybe not. Would be interested to hear how that works out for you!

Do you have any suggestions on how to remedy the situation? Would limiting the number of Saurians that can be recruited (and informing the player accordingly) help, or did you find that you were forced to rely on the Augurs alone because the scenarios would otherwise be unbeatable?

lostnumber
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.99

Post by lostnumber » September 6th, 2009, 8:57 pm

I haven't gotten to 11 yet, but augurs are so physically weak that I have a hard time imaging them being the *only* unit you end up recruiting. Maybe if skirmishers were an option, but they aren't thusfar.

In the desert level with the scorpions augurs did have a lot of advantages, but I found that the spots of roads throughout the map was enough to make using other troops viable.

Kenpachi
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.99

Post by Kenpachi » September 7th, 2009, 8:14 am

For scenario 11, you just recruit dwarfs here, and as you only get access to them just prior, even it you did try to use them, I doubt you would be able to get many of them to level 2.
lostnumber wrote:augurs are so physically weak that I have a hard time imaging them being the *only* unit you end up recruiting.
Kenpachi wrote: Equal or better defenses on all of the terrains;
they are your healing units;
they level easy, making even the level 2 units able to be used as canon fodder.
As a group, they take a fair amount of damage due to their high defense & heals. Combined with their higher mobility, you can pick your fights easier. With enough of them, you can also rotate the front lines, increasing their survivability.
I forgot to mention, they are also one of your cheapest units, making them even more expendable.

I was not "forced" to use them, it was just easy to. I treated them like a cheep, expendable mage.
As for other units, the loyal ones you start with were adequate for most fights when I wanted a different unit type.
Although, more then once they were a nuisance, and I wasted other units protecting them (poisons are nasty).

On a random note: scenario 9 was one of the easiest maps I've played.

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docrock
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.99

Post by docrock » September 7th, 2009, 5:10 pm

played current on BfW 1.6.4 with default difficulty. no flaws or errors throughout the entire campaign that i could find. very interesting twists and turns and a very inventive (and surprising) change in levelling with the main hero.

only one tomatoe-surprise: running around the caves with the elvish princess/queen is annoying. one might consider giving her the chance to get a ring of speed in the scenario where she has to read the book to learn how to defeat the main baddy.

about saurians: i started using them against the scorpions in the desert scenarios and recruited five of them. made two of them soothsayers and three of them oracles, lost none of them throughout the whole campaign and actually, they were both the healing- and the damage-dealing-backbone of my at the end really large and highly advanced army throughout the whole campaign. levelling and using them wisely is the key to quick success due their cold-damage, high defense and great movement. adding skirmishers would be imho overdoing it because i had the feeling if you are an at least mildly experienced BfW player you can always get the point of the scenarios from storyline and dialogues and finish accordingly.

i ended up with 2000+ gold (due to the unlimited-turn scenarios which i exploited as gold-mines), 20+ lvl3s (not counting all the lvl2s, especially the saurians, the leadership units ...) and not loosing a single unit in the process except for the last scenario of the second (happy) leg of events where you just can't avoid sacrificing three of them.
all-in-all, great work.
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Jacques_Fol
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.99

Post by Jacques_Fol » September 7th, 2009, 9:55 pm

Thanks for your constructive feedback, docrock! I will certainly look into doing something to Kyoko's movement in the caves. I think I may simply improve her cave movetype - after all, she is a daugther of a dwarf!

Regarding the saurians, did you perhaps find them too useful in comparison with the other units, or was it "easy" to just stick to five and recruit other units on top of that?

And as for this "verdict":
docrock wrote:all-in-all, great work.
It just makes a UMC developer's day, so thank you very much, sir! :D

lostnumber and Kenpachi, thanks also for your follow-up.
Kenpachi wrote:For scenario 11, you just recruit dwarfs here, and as you only get access to them just prior, even it you did try to use them, I doubt you would be able to get many of them to level 2.
In theory, yes, but don't you *miss* having other units around? :wink: As lostnumber put it:
lostnumber wrote:In the desert level with the scorpions augurs did have a lot of advantages, but I found that the spots of roads throughout the map was enough to make using other troops viable.
That, I suppose, is what I would hope for - that the players would still be "encouraged" to use other units besides the saurians.

Perhaps, taking note of docrock's feedback, I might try to limit the Augur recruits to five maximum (and then try to find some storyline excuse to have them available again after one of those five is killed - maybe do it so that the player can always recruit (or recall) up to five saurians in any given scenario). Will think about it.

Finally, this:
Kenpachi wrote:On a random note: scenario 9 was one of the easiest maps I've played.
Are you referring to the infamous Long Night of Shadows (TM)? Hmm, interesting. Just to check, what difficulty are you playing? Until it's suggested otherwise, I'll just assume that you are a very good player, as the difficulty of the enemy units was downgraded from the original list precisely because they were initially deemed too difficult to overcome. (Or maybe, again, limiting the number of available saurians might help make things a little more interesting.)

Thanks again, all, much appreciated!

Kenpachi
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.99

Post by Kenpachi » September 8th, 2009, 9:19 am

on the 9th scenario "Long Night of Shadows" there is a trick.
Spoiler:

Jacques_Fol
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.99

Post by Jacques_Fol » September 8th, 2009, 3:20 pm

Ahh, I see. Well, actually it is a strategy I considered as an option, although I thought it would not be quite as useful and would only come in handy towards the end. I give a tip to that effect in the first post of this thread:
Jacques_Fol wrote:In contrast, scenario 9 was envisioned to require different tactits for the three waves of the opponents. The first wave should be relatively easy to defeat (at least at the Easy setting). The second wave should be harder but still possible to prevail. The third wave should be the one where it would probably be better to run away rather than fight. In running away, there are still options. One is to try and make use of the secret tunnel from the mountain cottage to the temple (unknown and unusable to the Shadowhounds), the other to wall in at the temple and slow their advances with some sturdy units. Either way, the aim here was to survive the night rather than defeat everybody. Still, I guess the enemy is overpowering, so it will be scaled down.
What is interesting and somewhat troublesome is that it can so effectively be used from the very start. Perhaps should have seen it coming.

Did you find the scenario boring because of it? Perhaps, in that case, I could
Spoiler:
Will have to add this to the list of things to ponder, thanks!

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docrock
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.99

Post by docrock » September 8th, 2009, 3:28 pm

Regarding the saurians, did you perhaps find them too useful in comparison with the other units, or was it "easy" to just stick to five and recruit other units on top of that?
oh well, i just dunno, i ended up with them after recruiting without having a second thougt about it. when levelling them i just thought "healing" or "damage", whatever i needed most that moment. no great planning or strategy involved on my side.
"
Postings may contain traces of sense.
The ministry of health warns:
Living is dangerous to your health and may finally result in death.
You are a Dwarvish Berserker: you're freaking crazy and enjoy it. (100% ...)

Jacques_Fol
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.99

Post by Jacques_Fol » September 8th, 2009, 3:59 pm

Helpful to know, thanks! Will still consider whether to limit the number of saurians a player may recruit, but perhaps it's not a universal problem. Much obliged, sir. :)

PeteVine
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Re: 1.6 Campaign: A Rough Life - version 1.0.99

Post by PeteVine » October 11th, 2009, 6:09 pm

Hi,

I've been playing your campaign for the last few days. Small but dynamic scenarios make it quite decent ;)
Now, one thing that caught my attention was the phrase "laws of physics" in one of Jacques' musings between the scenarios. In a fantasy setting it would be better to say "laws of nature" :)

Cheers

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