Sceptre of Life, version 0.12.1

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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opensourcejunkie
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.6.0

Post by opensourcejunkie » October 22nd, 2008, 12:01 pm

All right, first for the easy ones:
Max2008 wrote:is it intended that the peasants take Aeryns villages on there way to the citadel?
yeah, that's intended. Mostly, I coded it in (yes, I actually had to code in the village capture - doesn't happen automatically) because it seemed unnatural for a unit to move to a village without capturing it. In hindsight, though, it helps from a financial perspective as well. Aeryn has a gold mine of villages (both within Tera's Clench, and along the path south of the city). Elrial, however, starts with little gold, and little income. By having the peasants capture some of Aeryn's villages, it helps to balance out the gold distribution. If the player doesn't like that though, s/he is certainly able to reclaim them.
Max2008 wrote:why does Criss disappear after setting up the keep?
Well, he was more or less created simply to give the sense that the village was occupied, and to provide a villager for Elrial to interact with. I guess it seemed natural to me that if he "ducked" back into the village to set up the keep, that he should therefore disappear from view. That being said, do you think it would make more sense to leave him out?



Now for the hard ones...
Max2008 wrote:i've moved Aeryn to the new keep (i know that there's even a label that Elrial should go there^^). you can finish the scenario but Aeryn will not be a leader in scenario 4 and you get the defeat message at end of first turn
Aah, good catch. I'll put that on my to-do list.
Max2008 wrote:some save games are broken ("error config: Illegal character in map: (Rece) 'Rece'") - i've attached stderr.txt and such a save game
Oh great. This one could take a bit of digging on my part. Rece is a terrain type that I created to look just like dirt, but act like a castle hex. So from what you're saying, my custom terrain definition isn't being loaded when the saved game is loaded. Thanks for posting this info so exhaustively; it should be helpful.
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opensourcejunkie
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.6.0

Post by opensourcejunkie » October 22nd, 2008, 12:24 pm

okay, so I tried to recreate the Rece error on my installation of Wesnoth, but the scenario loaded from the savefile without incident, and the Rece hexes worked without a problem. Has anybody else run across this error? @Max'08 :: what versions of SoL && BfW are you running?
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Max
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.6.0

Post by Max » October 22nd, 2008, 3:01 pm

i'm running bfw 1.4.3 & sol 0.6.0 (clean install from addon server).

there are two things that happen:

first bfw complains about the missing terrain - my guess would be that the additional terrain configuration has not been parsed yet and everythings fine afterwards when the map is drawn (i can see the encampment).

the error message that is display is caused by the (misformed) unit variable [Nia 'Kelan]

i've tried to load the map in bfw 1.5.5 and i get the same message, but followed by a message about the unknown terrain (1.5.5 is not able to load this scenario)

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Crushmaster
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.6.0

Post by Crushmaster » October 22nd, 2008, 3:18 pm

Hi OSJ,
I just wanted to tell you about what I thought about Etheran's Crossing:
I found it thoroughly enjoyable. :) The best part is when you're fighting the orcs, and pushing them to the other side of the river.
The dialogue was good, and, overall, it was an excellent map and scenario. :)
God bless,
Crushmaster.
Godspeed, random person!
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Max
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.6.0

Post by Max » October 23rd, 2008, 6:05 pm

some more feedback...

scenario 5:
- again some of the recalls of derill were still poisoned
- here's i think a major problem - i lost four times in a raw^^
1. Haldras died, before i could have done anything. he was up at the river and got some bad beating. it didn't happen again afterwards, so it maybe was really bad luck...
2. when Derills troops kill the last saurian and he withdraws the ai is next and they just crushed me
3. i focused on getting the finish blow with "my" troops, but at this time Elrial (who i wouldn't have thought became the leader) was somewhere in the swamps and couldn't get to the keep in one turn. got crushed again
4. i focused on killing the last saurian when Elrial is near the keep and was able to recruit a full castle, but still the hordes of orcs were too big (i had some bad luck as well^^)

next try i just pushed my troops recklessy up to the island on the river (now knowing that they would soon be gone anyway) to keep to orcs at distance. this worked out fine...

scenario 6:
what shall i say - i really loved it...
opensourcejunkie wrote:
Max2008 wrote:why does Criss disappear after setting up the keep?
Well, he was more or less created simply to give the sense that the village was occupied, and to provide a villager for Elrial to interact with. I guess it seemed natural to me that if he "ducked" back into the village to set up the keep, that he should therefore disappear from view. That being said, do you think it would make more sense to leave him out?
not really an issue at all - i just wrote everything down that i thought was rather unexpected (as the peasants taking allied villages which is rather unusual in wesnoth, but perfectly fine in this scenario anyway^^)

in my job i see lots of different projects and therefor coding styles and approaches, but i've got to say i really admire your style, it's so well structured and clean...

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Crushmaster
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.6.0

Post by Crushmaster » October 24th, 2008, 4:14 am

Hi OSJ,
I played around a bit with scenario three's map, and here's what I've got:
Attachments
Overprotective_Map.map
(18.37 KiB) Downloaded 184 times
Overprotective_MapScreenshot.jpg
Godspeed, random person!
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opensourcejunkie
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.6.0

Post by opensourcejunkie » October 24th, 2008, 5:07 am

You know Max, every time I get closer to finishing this bugfix, you come back with some more great feedback! (jerk :-). No, actually, thanks for playtesting so methodically (must come from your job experience).

I think I'm going to work on releasing a second bugfix after I finish the list of bugs already in front of me. The issues you've brought out here for scenario 5 are gonna take some doing, because you're right - when Derril withdraws, it becomes a pretty bad tomato surprise.
i'm running bfw 1.4.3 & sol 0.6.0 (clean install from addon server).

there are two things that happen:

first bfw complains about the missing terrain - my guess would be that the additional terrain configuration has not been parsed yet and everythings fine afterwards when the map is drawn (i can see the encampment).

the error message that is display is caused by the (misformed) unit variable [Nia 'Kelan]

i've tried to load the map in bfw 1.5.5 and i get the same message, but followed by a message about the unknown terrain (1.5.5 is not able to load this scenario)
Interesting... I may have to install 1.4.3 myself, and see what's up; I'm coding it on 1.4.4. I have a theory; unfortunately if I'm correct, then I can't fix it (without removing the terrain).

Basically, you said that this happens when you try to load it from a save file. I'm inferring then that this didn't happen to you when you played straight through - i.e. the terrain definitions were loaded properly when the scenario was first loaded.

I remembered seeing an interesting phenomenon when I was checking out a previous savefile; apparently, the entire WML for a scenario is saved into each autosave. This allows (I think) the autosave to track exactly what's happened so far - which events have triggered, etc. Since that's the case (I just confirmed it now), perhaps the entire scenario is loaded using only the WML placed in the autosave. If that's the case, then the WML outside of the scenario - e.g. the terrain definitions - may not be loaded with it. Thus the engine wouldn't pick them up when it tries to load an autosaved game.

A theory, anyway. I'll have to test it in 1.4.3 though, to see if I can replicate it on my machine.
Elrial (who i wouldn't have thought became the leader)
- yeah, that's gtta be a bug. Eriad should become the new leader after Derril leaves. Perhaps she's still retaining her leader status from the previous scenario.
in my job i see lots of different projects and therefor coding styles and approaches, but i've got to say i really admire your style, it's so well structured and clean...
Thanks :-). I think that I have a different view about commenting code than most programmers I've run into. Most code (even well-commented code) seems to use comments to simply explain/augment the code as it's being read line by line. I tend to use comments as chapters/subheadings in a book. They're highly visible, and explain what you're about to see - not what you're seeing now (although there is certainly room for that type of comment as well)

so, what sort of job do you have (if you don't mind my asking)?

@ Crushmaster :: cool, I'll check out the new map. Thanks again for the help!
--OSJ
what if the Bible's claims about Christ depicted accurate, verifiable history? given some research, you might be surprised at the evidence...

opensourcejunkie
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.6.0

Post by opensourcejunkie » October 24th, 2008, 2:06 pm

Okay, the first bugfix is out; here's what I fixed:

1) There've been a lot of comments requesting that the northern lights be fixed, so I (sort of) fixed them. There were two problems with them. First, they wouldn't turn off when you undid a move onto them. Now they do. Second, they didn't actually work - i.e. they looked like they lit up, but lawful units didn't receive any bonus from them. They work now, kind of. The reason I couldn't get them to work before is because WML doesn't let you turn illumination on and off (yet). So, instead of leaving them off when they look on, now they're left on, even when they look off (basically, you'll get the bonus even when you're not standing on them).

2) I fixed a bug with the ai in scenario 2; won't go into details.

3) As requested, I added to the saurian difficulty a little in scenario 4, and I fixed their leader to its keep.

4) I fixed that annoying little poison bug where units would heal between scenarios, but they'd often remain poisoned.

5) In scenario 3, I changed the objective "rescue at least one peasant" to "rendezvous with the peasants"

6) In scenario 4, I added dashed ellipses to the new trainee units who have no zone of control. That way, they're easier to tell apart from comparable units with a zoc.

7) Even if Aeryn doesn't become a leader in scenario 3, he'll become one in scenario 4.

8) When I changed Eriad's portrait in 0.6.0, there was another unit using the same portrait in scenario 4. I changed it to avoid confusion.

9) Aeryn's Medic, Doctor, and Rune Healer units are now much more sophisticated (well, as sophisticated as a 1-frame unit can be ;-). First of all, I changed up the attacks. His use of a staff dropped and he now simply uses his fists. Also, Dark Medicine is now a ranged attack.

Next, I did some simple WML "animations" to provide him with a custom defense anim, smoother melee movements, and little knives dipped in dark medicine.

I raised his experience to make it harder to level, and because of that I raised his hp & attack power a bit to make it easier (possible) to survive until the higher levels.

Finally, I know that a fourth level was suggested, but I opted out of it because it would be just another thing to add to the list of necessary art contributions.Instead, however, I came up with a few AMLA options to keep him interesting even after level 3. Basically, you can get the steadfast ability (once), add to your melee attack power (twice), or full heal and add +3 to your max hp (up to 100 times). As the scenarios progress, I may throw in a few more AMLA options that pop in when you do something special.

All right, now to get started on bugfix # 2...
--OSJ
what if the Bible's claims about Christ depicted accurate, verifiable history? given some research, you might be surprised at the evidence...

Max
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.6.0

Post by Max » October 24th, 2008, 3:58 pm

opensourcejunkie wrote:Interesting... I may have to install 1.4.3 myself, and see what's up; I'm coding it on 1.4.4. I have a theory; unfortunately if I'm correct, then I can't fix it (without removing the terrain)
i'll try to find out why this is happening on the weekend. (i recently found out that someone submitted project files for visual studio 2008 so i can finally properly debug wesnoth)
opensourcejunkie wrote:so, what sort of job do you have (if you don't mind my asking)?
i work for a company that makes add-ons/plugins for products (mainly a specific one) that supply no (or rather a very limited) API for third parties. my job is to provide a better framework that allow us to do more things than the original api offers which gives us a competitive advantage. the main difficulty is to do this in a way so that our addons still work (or only some minor changes are required) if a new version of this product is released (you can't blame a company for changing undocumented stuff^^).
opensourcejunkie wrote:9) Aeryn's Medic, Doctor, and Rune Healer units are now much more sophisticated (well, as sophisticated as a 1-frame unit can be ;-). First of all, I changed up the attacks. His use of a staff dropped and he now simply uses his fists. Also, Dark Medicine is now a ranged attack.
that sounds really great. the only thing i find a bit odd is that Aeryn looks like quite a skinny guy and yet he is able to deal such damage with his bare fists?

myidbe
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.6.1

Post by myidbe » October 24th, 2008, 7:40 pm

Hi osj,

Haven't had much wesnoth-time recently, but am glad to see that SOL is coming along so nicely! Also @crushmaster: The iterations you guys have been doing with the maps has IMO really paid off - in particular scenario 2 looks great!

Quick note: the newest version that you just uploaded to the server is commented so that it starts with scenario 2, not the actual first scenario...

Otherwise, great great work. Looking forward to giving you comprehensive feedback after playing through the campaign..

myidbe
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.6.1

Post by myidbe » October 24th, 2008, 8:43 pm

Just a very small dialog comment: At the end of scenario 1, Deryl says "Go on," (with a comma). Should the comma be replaced by an ellipsis ("...") or perhaps just a period?

myidbe
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.6.1

Post by myidbe » October 24th, 2008, 8:48 pm

Ah, just started scenario 2, and all the goblins die automatically before the scenario/1st turn begins.

Aeryn also appears immediately thereafter without any dialog...? Issue with the recent bug fix (sol v.0.6.1)? I'm running wesnoth 1.4.5 on windows (my own linux comp died last week and have to use my rm's now...sigh :\ ).

Max
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.6.1

Post by Max » October 24th, 2008, 9:02 pm

myidbe wrote:Quick note: the newest version that you just uploaded to the server is commented so that it starts with scenario 2, not the actual first scenario...
myidbe wrote:Ah, just started scenario 2, and all the goblins die automatically before the scenario/1st turn begins
just downloaded the 0.6.1 and it starts with the first scenario. maybe there was a broken version on servers for a short time - try to download it again...

p.s.: there's an edit button to avoid double (tripple^^) posting...

myidbe
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.6.1

Post by myidbe » October 24th, 2008, 9:16 pm

Just downloaded again and confirm that it's working fine now.

Sorry for the triple-posting...

opensourcejunkie
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.6.1

Post by opensourcejunkie » October 25th, 2008, 12:59 pm

Max2008 wrote:just downloaded the 0.6.1 and it starts with the first scenario. maybe there was a broken version on servers for a short time - try to download it again...
Ack - I only had that version up for like, five minutes! Go figure; I wonder how many other people got the broken version :-). Thanks for telling me, though. Basically, the lack of dialogue was due to a testing define I have called NOCONVERSE which turns off all dialogue (with the amount of dialogue in SoL, I definitely need to turn it off when testing :-). The automatic deaths were due to another testing define called AUTOKILL.

'cause I know ya'll really want to know the nuts and bolts of my SoL WML ;-)
--OSJ

Edit: Hah! forgot to respond to all the other posts...

speaking of ellipses...yeah, myidbe, that should definitely be a period. Good catch,
Max2008 wrote:that sounds really great. the only thing i find a bit odd is that Aeryn looks like quite a skinny guy and yet he is able to deal such damage with his bare fists?
Yeah, true. Actually, if/when he gets a real sprite, i'd like him to be bigger. When he's standing next to Elrial, he seems pretty short. And while I've got no qualms about short guys dating tall girls :-), I think it wouldn't feel right in this (eventual) relationship if they weren't about the same height, and he didn't have some meat to his bones.

That being said, do you think he's overpowered for a level 1? I could knock down his power a bit; my main concern was for his formerly low hp and his ability to survive level 2 without advancing.
my job is to provide a better framework that allow us to do more things than the original api offers which gives us a competitive advantage.
that sounds really cool. One of my biggest passions (as a programmer) is in interface design - making a program do what the user wants it to do in an intuitive manner (I've had to resist the urge to redesign the GIMP interface for quite some time). That's also why I like building code libraries - gives me the chance to organize a person's code under an intuitive, easy to use interface.

Anyway, your job sounds fun! Good luck with it.
i'll try to find out why this is happening on the weekend. (i recently found out that someone submitted project files for visual studio 2008 so i can finally properly debug wesnoth)
Hey, cool; if there's a bug I hope you find it. I'll post a topic on WML workshop as well to make sure that the issue isn't on my end.
Also @crushmaster: The iterations you guys have been doing with the maps has IMO really paid off - in particular scenario 2 looks great!
Yeah, Crushmaster has contributed a lot to SoL; without his eye, my maps would be a lot more boring :-]. That reminds me; I need to check out his scenario 3 map...(so much to do!)
Otherwise, great great work. Looking forward to giving you comprehensive feedback after playing through the campaign..
Thanks, and I look forward to it too :-)
p.s.: there's an edit button to avoid double (tripple^^) posting...
Yeah, so this is the first forum I've posted on regularly, so I'm pretty new to forum etiquette. I did read that triple posting was bad, but I never understood why. Out of curiosity, it because it pushes the topic to the top of the forum with each post, and can thereby be abused? Or is there another reason?
I'm running wesnoth 1.4.5 on windows (my own linux comp died last week and have to use my rm's now...sigh :\ ).
Ouch; I feel ya. Get well soon...

--OSJ
what if the Bible's claims about Christ depicted accurate, verifiable history? given some research, you might be surprised at the evidence...

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