Flight to Freedom (drake campaign)

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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DavidByron
Posts: 72
Joined: July 10th, 2005, 6:30 am

Post by DavidByron »

The pirate Kogw's upgrade violates RIPLIB. He gets worse at combat. He's not a very good piece for a level 2 in the first place, which is ok since it's meant to be a Drake campaign, but maybe give him two attacks: default of 13-3 and the 12-2 backstab you gave him for level 3.

Is it possible to finish the scenario "Underground"? I had to hack the .cfg file to give myself 2 undead dragons AND prevent the Dwarven Lords from recruiting ANYTHING - as opposed to the 30-40 units EACH (on normal) they will recruit in the unchanged scenario. Even with the Undead Dragon's 5 moves through caves -- faster than anything through caves except bats -- these two took 32 turns to kill both the Dwarf Lords - out of 40 turns max. Malakar can only move 1 hex a turn so forget him. My only other leader was also only 1 hex a turn. There's no unit you can recruit that will be guaranteed 3 hexes per move - at best a 50% chance of it. But you have so few towns initially you can't support a large army. I had about 10-12 level 2 recall units that could move 3 hexes in caves and they got massacred repeatedly by the Dwarves - because none of them had any long range attack and their defence is so lousy - and there's no healing of course. And there's an unending river of Dwarves. But even if I had been one hit killing the Dwarves (which isn't possible even if everything's level 3) ... I don't think it would be possible to fight through to the Green leader because the passage way is 1 wide at every step (and it contains a town). Maybe if there were 140 turns.

I looked at the .cfg but I couldn't see any way to resolve this. The undead dragon is created when you already get well past most of the Dwarves, right? It looks like 2 hex per turn guys would take 30-40 turns just to walk from one end of the cave to the other unopposed.

How are you supposed to win this scenario? I didn't see it mentioned as being hard or anything.
DavidByron
Posts: 72
Joined: July 10th, 2005, 6:30 am

Post by DavidByron »

It would be easier to beat up the Humans AND the Orcs and the Elves on the "Drake Escape" scenario than take on the Dwarves in caves. That scenario was perfect for a Drake defence. The river has exactly one hex they can cross on, where I can attack them with 3 units backed by leaders, and plenty of healing close by. Plus the lightning spirits would beat the hell out of the Orcs and Humans without being any kind of problem for the Drakes. I could have massacred every human and orc one at a time with great ease back there. I get my ass kicked in the caves.
MadMax
Posts: 1792
Joined: June 6th, 2004, 3:29 pm
Location: Weldyn, Wesnoth

Post by MadMax »

Scenario 1: it is not supposed to matter how much gold you spend, it is lost in scenario 2. It's a bug.
As for the drakes disembarking too late, I will change it so that the humans recruit before the drakes by making the drakes side 4 (seriously, it can be done).
The map will surface again, later in the campaign. This way, you get an idea of where Malakar's domain is on the island.
The forces are part of the Wesnothian army, capturing the slaves for sale, a source of income for the army.
And no, he is not a wuss at the beginning, although he does get more heroic as the game goes on.
Scenario 2: Yeah, you're right about the mind control spells. And you're idea about the hatchlings is good, but you almost need hatchlings in scenario 3, to serve as cannon fodder and impede the forces from the southwest. The shot of the castle can't be entirely prevented, but I can minimize it to being a brief flash by forcing the screen to redraw at the start.
Scenario 3: I will give the player 200 gold at the start, plus any gold that he may have made in scenario 2 by early finish and capturing villages. And Prax III should be attacking, but due to the way the AI works, if the unit is cornered and has very low hitpoints, it will attempt to rest and gain 2hp rather than attack.
Scenario 4: You're right about the animals, although I would still want the wolves to have a decent attack (although they will be faster, the speed should also make it harder to recruit flying units and rushing). The 'true warriors at hand' is evidenced by your recruitment list. I will also beef up the caravan, and maybe give it a few guards or even make the elves want to protect the caravan. And why does Malakar want the caravan? He wants the money. And how does the Manor give you a bunch?

And the drakes do get stronger once again, near the end.

Scenario 5: The causeway is there for tactical reasons, but I think I will move the bridge over to give it a purpose. And I think I will add the loyal trait to their descriptions. I don't have the gfx for any pirate units other than the Pirate->Pirate Captain line and the boats, and the Pirate line is reserved for Kogw. Also, drakes are not supposed to have good defense, and the reinforcents near the end do have good defense. As for the line about who Kogw swears by, I want Malakar's threat of sacrificing him to be threatening. I think I'll add in a sound effect to show that, if I can find a good one that fits. As for the good piracy, maybe the drakes will attack a caravan, no :) ?

Scenario 6 (Southern Shore): Yes, it is supposed to be a money loser, to partially offset the 500 gold from the caravan. And I can decouple the early finish bonus by placing villages out of reach, but the problem with that is that drakes can fly over everything except cavewall, which looks ugly, so practically, no.

Scenario 7: You do have a point on the fight option, which would also give the player more experience with and use of the pirate ships, but the monsters are pretty tough, and you stand to lose a lot of gold that way (BTW, you won't get to use those ships again in combat until almost the end).

Scenario 8: That works, but if you land earlier, you get a better early finish bonus. With the pier, I can place an icon on it. As for the objectives, I will make it so that you do not receive the enemy leaders notification until you land, and make the text show defeat both or defeat enemy leader depending on whether you destroyed the human ship or not.

Scenario 9: It is supposed to be light on combat. And your dialogue changes involving the spirit and why they are going to the caves are good. But I don't want Malakar to be a comedian either, he's a big bad drake. Also, with the caves, I will probably say that the drakes have nowhere to go, or that the humans will be hindered too. The problem with the Unforgiver is the same as that in scenario 2 with the castle, and cannot be eliminated, only minimized.

Scenario 10: I'll drastically lower the gold for them both. It used to be much easier for drakes to move in cave, but recent balancing changes in Wesnoth changed that. I just never thought it'd be like that. In fact, it was actually supposed to be easy. Also, if you know where to look, there is free gold for the taking. I'll also edit the map and make it easier. However, I don't know what I'll do about scenario 11, which is set on a MASSIVE map with 8 enemies. I may have to redo scenarios 10-12 completely.

And you're right about level 3 Kogw.

Thanks for the suggestions!
"ILLEGITIMIS NON CARBORUNDUM"

Father of Flight to Freedom
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/FlightToFreedom
claus
Posts: 186
Joined: April 4th, 2005, 5:51 am

Post by claus »

MadMax wrote:The shot of the castle can't be entirely prevented, but I can minimize it to being a brief flash by forcing the screen to redraw at the start.
What about adding shroud and removing all at the end of the prestart event? (after the terrain change)
shroud=yes for side 1 and
[remove_shroud]
x=1-x_max
y=1-y_max #x_max and y_max have to be replaced with the maximum x, y coordinate of the map
[/remove_shroud]
MadMax
Posts: 1792
Joined: June 6th, 2004, 3:29 pm
Location: Weldyn, Wesnoth

Post by MadMax »

claus wrote:
MadMax wrote:The shot of the castle can't be entirely prevented, but I can minimize it to being a brief flash by forcing the screen to redraw at the start.
What about adding shroud and removing all at the end of the prestart event? (after the terrain change)
shroud=yes for side 1 and
[remove_shroud]
x=1-x_max
y=1-y_max #x_max and y_max have to be replaced with the maximum x, y coordinate of the map
[/remove_shroud]
That should work, although I would use modify_side instead of remove_shroud, because I don't need xmax and ymax.

EDIT: you're right, modify_side does not work
EDIT2: remove_shroud waits until end of cutscene to remove shroud
"ILLEGITIMIS NON CARBORUNDUM"

Father of Flight to Freedom
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/FlightToFreedom
DavidByron
Posts: 72
Joined: July 10th, 2005, 6:30 am

Post by DavidByron »

Scenario 1: it is not supposed to matter how much gold you spend, it is lost in scenario 2. It's a bug.


Why not just have no fortress and start both sides already with soldiers? Make all the units on the Drake side loyal so that the player immidiately knows that there's no issue as far as gold goes -- they wouldn't be able to get enough to have 125 anyway. I assume that Malakar is only head of the local drakes so it makes sense to have him "holding off" the humans. This would allow the player a campaign furthering goal of getting Malakar as much experience as possible before he get's killed. With no gold and no recallable troops it's only Malakar's personal experience that can be achieved.

Also maybe have the land more beach / sandy since it's one of the few terrain types Drakes do better than humans generally. I assume that means their homeland is sandy? Maybe oases instead of villages?
no, he is not a wuss at the beginning, although he does get more heroic as the game goes on.
Well "HELP!" is an odd thing to say then. The guy's unintentionally pretty funny although he seems to be more of the straight man of the two lead characters.
The shot of the castle can't be entirely prevented, but I can minimize it to being a brief flash by forcing the screen to redraw at the start.
How do they do it in the HttT scenario where they enter the caves? It seems to scroll a lot so perhaps the scrolling covers over the removal of the castle.
I would still want the wolves to have a decent attack
If they were not so cute you could call them Wargs or Werewolves.
why does Malakar want the caravan? He wants the money. And how does the Manor give you a bunch?
Yeah I got the money wrong. I guess the caravan gives you the money. I think the attack-for-money stuff really belongs after the Drakes become pirates. Which is very historical of course. Well not the Drake part but the ex-prisoners turned pirates bit.

BTW, what's with the wings? If I had Drakes as slaves I'd probably disable their wings to stop them flying off. So in Scenario 2 they can't fly. So is the idea that their wings are just manacled, or do their wings heal? Either way it sounds like it could be a part of the campaign to say how exactly that happens, or at least warrant a mention or two. But the timing would have to be between Scenario 3 and 4.
I don't have the gfx for any pirate units other than the Pirate->Pirate Captain line and the boats, and the Pirate line is reserved for Kogw
Well Kogw is weak for a level 2 or 3 unit as it is so you could make the pirates pretty weak so they wouldn't change much but I think they might add something, especially in the caves where they would have a good movement and of course they get the +25% bonus for chaotic to the Drake's -25%. I think it would be cute and you could have them not upgrade beyond level 1 so they could use the current level 2 icon for Kogw and he could use the level 3 icon for himself throughout.
As for the line about who Kogw swears by, I want Malakar's threat of sacrificing him to be threatening.
That's not really how it comes across. But it's more than his exchange with Prax III where Malakar comes across as petty.
the monsters are pretty tough, and you stand to lose a lot of gold that way
Yeah I didn't say it would benefit the player to fight. It would be a mistake unless you had a lot of money. I assume the Unforgiver can usefully gain experience? I guess you could have some use to the ships if they turn up in "Landfall".
I don't want Malakr to be a comedian either, he's a big bad drake.
Well you can make him the straight man to Kogw's funny lines. BTW just how keen are the humans on finding these Drakes? I would think they would give up after seeing the lightning spirits. Maybe give some more reason for the humans to hunt them once they leave the vicinity of Wesnoth? If they are pirates for "a while" and then Malakr says something like, "We have taken enough from the humans and now it's time you make good on your promise to take us to Malagor". Which I'm sure would lead to an argument about how profitable another year of piracy would be....

Anyway if they became well known pirates I can see that would be a good reason for the humans to pursue them. Or perhaps Prax III turns out to be related to someone more important. At the point where the humans turn up in the caves I think, "Don't these guys EVER give up?"
I'll drastically lower the gold for them both. It used to be much easier for drakes to move in cave, but recent balancing changes in Wesnoth changed that. I just never thought it'd be like that. In fact, it was actually supposed to be easy.
Well you could keep the caves but have them as huge caves you can fly in --- those brown "cave grassland" hexes --- joined up by smaller sections of proper tunnel-like cave hexes.
Dwarven Lord
Posts: 18
Joined: September 20th, 2005, 7:27 pm
Location: Oregon USA

Post by Dwarven Lord »

Hi, I just wanted to reprt a bug on the land fall senario. When the Humans land two leaders come off of the ship instead of one.

Just thought you would like to know. :)
The Dwarven Lord has spoken!
kucing
Posts: 2
Joined: September 23rd, 2005, 11:04 am

Post by kucing »

Dwarven Lord wrote:Hi, I just wanted to reprt a bug on the land fall senario. When the Humans land two leaders come off of the ship instead of one.

Just thought you would like to know. :)
I don't think it is a bug. You are supposed to kill them.
Dwarven Lord
Posts: 18
Joined: September 20th, 2005, 7:27 pm
Location: Oregon USA

Post by Dwarven Lord »

Well the orcs say the same thing twice and then second leader comes off of the ship. It is like the senaro rewound and started again.
The Dwarven Lord has spoken!
MadMax
Posts: 1792
Joined: June 6th, 2004, 3:29 pm
Location: Weldyn, Wesnoth

Post by MadMax »

I know I haven't been on the forum for a while, but, as is posted in Off-Topic, I had serious computer trouble.

Dwarven Lord: What version are you using? I have never experienced this.
"ILLEGITIMIS NON CARBORUNDUM"

Father of Flight to Freedom
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/FlightToFreedom
ozean
Posts: 90
Joined: September 27th, 2005, 5:19 pm
Location: Norway
Contact:

Post by ozean »

I just want to re-iterate that the "Underground" scenario is impossible to beat at this moment :cry:

An update to this scenario (and other cave scenarios) would be very welcome. I spent quite a few hours working on this before I realized that the fault is not mine and that I am not overlooking something. From my perspective, this campaign should be considered 'broken' at this time…
scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

It's being worked on.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Dwarven Lord
Posts: 18
Joined: September 20th, 2005, 7:27 pm
Location: Oregon USA

Post by Dwarven Lord »

I am using 1.orc1 I havent had time to download the new version yet. I solvedthe problem by simply sinking the boat before it landed but that error should be adressed.
The Dwarven Lord has spoken!
MadMax
Posts: 1792
Joined: June 6th, 2004, 3:29 pm
Location: Weldyn, Wesnoth

Post by MadMax »

Dwarven Lord wrote:I am using 1.orc1 I havent had time to download the new version yet. I solvedthe problem by simply sinking the boat before it landed but that error should be adressed.
I have not been able to reproduce this problem (it is probably something to do with changes in 1.0rc1). Can you attach a savefile (and a replay, if you have it)? Just make sure that binary saves are turned off, or I won't be able to open it.

ozean: yes, the underground scenarios are being worked on. I actually have a functioning Underground, I just need to test it.
"ILLEGITIMIS NON CARBORUNDUM"

Father of Flight to Freedom
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/FlightToFreedom
Dwarven Lord
Posts: 18
Joined: September 20th, 2005, 7:27 pm
Location: Oregon USA

Post by Dwarven Lord »

I can do that but i will need to be told how to turn off the binary saves. I dont know how to do that.
The Dwarven Lord has spoken!
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