Difficulty level of later scenarios

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Eponymous-Archon
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Difficulty level of later scenarios

Post by Eponymous-Archon » April 1st, 2004, 5:17 am

At medium difficulty, I have found that Gryphon Mountain and Ford of Abez are a cake-walk compared with the levels leading up to them (and I don't think it's because I've gotten that much better at the game :-)). Have these been the subject of some serious balancing?

Here is my limited experience (spoiler):

GM requires very few units. The orcs can be allowed to damage the Gryphon mother before you kill her off, and then they can be fairly easily killed with the right units (I got through on my second try). Then the enemy horse are all the way on the wrong side of the mountain and can't make it back before you kill the enemy leader. I lost only one unit and that because I was stupid and forgot how fast orcs are in the mountains.

My strategy for FoA was to waste some mermen as a delaying tactic against a few of the sea monsters, and get K's butt across the river. The enemy can't catch up fast enough from the south, and can't get far enough into the river from the north. The sea monsters do wreak some serious damage. (I have a feeling they are too powerful, but I haven't played against them much.) I haven't been able to get the trident and do anything with it. The merman gets killed too easily by the sea monsters, so it's either get the trident and run away in order to use it on another level, or leave it alone. Both seem a bit of a waste.

I have a feeling that I could do it without using the mermen at all. Maybe just my nice Triton with magical trident. I also suspect that other strategies might work well too (e.g., quick dash across the river with horse, teleport mages to kill northern enemy - OTOH the northern enemy can't do much damage).

Anyway, my two cents.
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Kamahawk
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Post by Kamahawk » April 1st, 2004, 3:16 pm

Abez was never to hard and gryphon mountain is supposed to be a "rest' scenario.
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Dave
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Post by Dave » April 1st, 2004, 3:57 pm

I'm not sure these scenarios can be considered 'later' scenarios anymore, considering that they are scenarios 10 and 11 in a 23 scenario campaign [1] :)

Indeed, the difficulty level of these scenarios is meant to be none-too-hard. They come immediately after the notorious 'Princess's Revenge' scenario. Northern Winter isn't blisteringly difficult either. Things start to heat up after that though at Mountain Pass and then the Dwarvern Doors.

Also, Gryphon Mountain might not be challenging to win on, but it is fairly challenging to get the Gryphon eggs.

Although Ford of Abez might not be super hard, it isn't the sort of scenario you can level-up half a dozen units on, either.

David

[1] CVS version, 21 scenarios in 0.7. Count alternative scenarios as one scenario.
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Eponymous-Archon
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Post by Eponymous-Archon » April 1st, 2004, 4:03 pm

Dave wrote:I'm not sure these scenarios can be considered 'later' scenarios anymore, considering that they are scenarios 10 and 11 in a 23 scenario campaign [1] :)
Well, shows you where I am. :-)
Dave wrote:Also, Gryphon Mountain might not be challenging to win on, but it is fairly challenging to get the Gryphon eggs.
Well, I got them without any trouble my first time, though I, ahem, didn't quite survive that time. Second time I got them and made it through.
Dave wrote:Although Ford of Abez might not be super hard, it isn't the sort of scenario you can level-up half a dozen units on, either.
Well, no, for me it's been just a mad dash across the river. I'm going to try out some other strategies, but so far my feeling is that I should just ignore the sea-monsters and take only faster units, a few of which will get nailed by the monsters. That 3-10 attack is a killer.

I guess I just find the Gryphon level a bit dull, and likewise the ford, though less so. There seems to be more opportunity for strategy there.
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telex4
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Post by telex4 » April 1st, 2004, 7:18 pm

Eponymous-Archon wrote:I guess I just find the Gryphon level a bit dull, and likewise the ford, though less so. There seems to be more opportunity for strategy there.
I think the problem with the ford level is that it lacks the range of available tactics because it funnels you across one block of shallow water, and you have no choice but to rush across. But then I found it challenging enough when I first did it, and it's nice to have a bit of variety.

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Post by Dave » April 1st, 2004, 7:45 pm

There's not alot of room for a wide variety of strategies on the Ford of Abez, but it's not like it's going to be long and tedious.

It's kinda meant to be a 'quick' scenario that's an interlude between other scenarios.

David
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Ave
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Post by Ave » April 1st, 2004, 8:08 pm

The ford of abez is still tough to me, on easy level.
I've made even the sceptre of fire easier!
The sea monsters are somehow a bit too tough. The only useful tactic is to hold them up by suicidal mermen. Even then, it is hard to avoid that the orcs make up a wall.
PS:
1. Btw, was the sceptre of fire removed? I think Li'Sar is weak without it.

2. Why the sword of fire is made a ranged weapon, and why can't Li'Sar pick it up?

3. Both sceptre and sword are 'of fire', couldn't be the sword a 'sword of ice' ?

Eponymous-Archon
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Post by Eponymous-Archon » April 1st, 2004, 8:44 pm

Dave wrote:There's not alot of room for a wide variety of strategies on the Ford of Abez, but it's not like it's going to be long and tedious.
True enough, but I think I'll try a few different things.
It's kinda meant to be a 'quick' scenario that's an interlude between other scenarios.
I understand this (though I don't think it's needed), but following the Gryphons puts two easy ones in a row, which is too much IMHO.
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Combatjuan
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Post by Combatjuan » April 1st, 2004, 11:36 pm

On Ford of Abez:
There is definitely only one way to beat it. I like that the sea monsters are so hard, but it'd be nice if the scenario was designed in such a way as to allow for a bit more choice. Perhaps a choice to engage the brunt of the Orc force or to try your luck with the sea monsters.

On Gryphon Mountain:
The first time I played this level (6.99.3 I think), it was easy except for the time limit. Although I tend to be very careful with my units and take my time. The last time I played it, it was well balanced although I didn't like that the Orcs could get to the Gryphons before I safely could. (The firs time I played it, they didn't even try).

On Home of Northern Elves:
This scenario was terribly easy. I disregarded the warning to hurry east and not fight and easily slaughtered both the Orcs and the Humans. The Elves were a huge factor in being able to kill the Humans as their army was immense (and took like 3 minutes per turn on my Athlon XP 1800+). Perhaps populating the southwest city with humans and adding more power to the orcs and reducing the power of the elves would make the scenario not so laughable. I had nearly 3,000 gold when it ended.

Thanks!
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Eponymous-Archon
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Get those sea monsters!

Post by Eponymous-Archon » April 2nd, 2004, 1:20 am

Has anyone tried to wipe out the sea monsters?

I've just played a few rounds using Gryphons or Scouts to scoot across the river and capture some villages, thinking that I could teleport a red mage over there. But this really made no difference to Konrad on his way across. The deciding factor is the advance of the sea monsters, and I don't see any way to stop that when rushing across right away.

I'm going to try attacking the princess, or at least hanging out for a while, but I think that will be futile.
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Post by Sangel » April 2nd, 2004, 3:36 am

I've managed to kill a Cuttlefish, but Mermen just don't have the brawn to battle the monsters and, say, Paladins... in water? Let's just say I had several of them chopped to pieces several times before I figured out to use a Merman screen and let the land units stick to fighting Orcs.

Eponymous-Archon
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Post by Eponymous-Archon » April 2nd, 2004, 4:21 am

Just tried a couple hanging out on the south side, advancing cautiously, with only a triton in the water.

Darn those 3-10 attacks. :evil:

Anyway I may try again with some recruited mermen as bait.

Just what are the cuttlefish doing moving so fast on land, btw? (Yes, I know that an octopus is actually quite agile out of water.)
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alittlewoodelfe

Post by alittlewoodelfe » April 2nd, 2004, 10:31 am

On easy mode in 0.6.9.x campaign I killed sea monsters by attracting them on the left isle where Delfador and Kalienz can kill them (with the help of the two mermens with tridents).

Eponymous-Archon
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Post by Eponymous-Archon » April 2nd, 2004, 4:14 pm

alittlewoodelfe wrote:On easy mode in 0.6.9.x campaign I killed sea monsters by attracting them on the left isle where Delfador and Kalienz can kill them (with the help of the two mermens with tridents).
Yeah, I play in medium and the Princess' forces are too powerful to wipe out quickly...at least before the monsters show up.

I'm getting close though. One problem is that I keep the mermen too far away from the monsters and they don't go after them in any number...well, the cuttlefish don't anyway.

So, slower land movement for those shellfish?
The Eponymous Archon

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