After Eastern Invasion

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Spannerbag
Posts: 65
Joined: December 18th, 2016, 6:14 pm

Re: After Eastern Invasion

Post by Spannerbag »

Hi again DukeSwampy,

Thanks for your feedback.

If you wanted to keep the content hidden, a private message might have been easier?

My replies are inside your spoilers and are in italics :)
Just a few general thoughts - the campaign overall is intended to be moderately easy.
(Though not everyone found it easy).

What difficulty did you play on?
DukeSwampy wrote: March 19th, 2020, 2:07 am My thoughts:
Scenario: Strategic Withdrawal + reply
Spoiler:
Scenario: Diplomacy + reply
Spoiler:
Scenario: Northern Outpost (I think not mistaken) + reply
Spoiler:
Scenario: Revolting Peasants + reply
Spoiler:
Scenario: More Revolting Peasants + reply
Spoiler:
Scenario: Northmead + reply
Spoiler:
Scenario: Aitsward South gate + reply
Question:
Spoiler:
Please let me know if:
- anything is not clear
- if you have any suggestions to make gameplay more fun

Cheers!
--- Spannerbag
UMC Campaign: After EI
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
Gorumph
Posts: 5
Joined: January 20th, 2019, 8:49 am

Re: After Eastern Invasion

Post by Gorumph »

Hi, great campaing, thank you for the amazing job.
But I'm stuck with "the caveguard" scenario. I play normal and it's the hardest so far. After countless tries to have enough turns left for the final rush in the north west labyrinth, I can't find more than 2 of the four keys. I'm pretty sure I've been on every hex of the map at one time or another And I've not found any one outside the labyrinth.
Any hint would be greatly appreciated... thanks
Spannerbag
Posts: 65
Joined: December 18th, 2016, 6:14 pm

Re: After Eastern Invasion

Post by Spannerbag »

Hi Gorumph,
Gorumph wrote: August 1st, 2020, 1:25 pm Hi, great campaing, thank you for the amazing job.
But I'm stuck with "the caveguard" scenario. I play normal and it's the hardest so far. After countless tries to have enough turns left for the final rush in the north west labyrinth, I can't find more than 2 of the four keys. I'm pretty sure I've been on every hex of the map at one time or another And I've not found any one outside the labyrinth.
Any hint would be greatly appreciated... thanks
Thanks for your kind feedback - much appreciated!

Not that it helps here, but I am slooowly, as a background task, trying to compile a full list of spoilers (and there are a lot).
I've also got a new but untested version with lots of changes (but few gameplay changes, mostly the changes are to do with future-proofing and bug fixing). I have tweaked the Caveguard in this new version as I feel it can easily become log-jammed, which (IMHO) isn't fun when the turns are limited.

However - though it won't help with the keys - if people want to try out this untested version I'm happy to publish it... it should be OK as I've not made (IIRC) any major gameplay changes (besides Caveguard) but as I say, it ain't tested. Unfortunately I've been really busy (with, amongst other stuff, my next UMC...) so haven't recently spent much quality time with AfterEI.

I'll send you a pm with further details re. Caveguard!

Cheers,
-- Spannerbag
UMC Campaign: After EI
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
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s1m0n
Posts: 50
Joined: May 7th, 2020, 1:55 pm
Location: Irdya

Re: After Eastern Invasion

Post by s1m0n »

I too cannot find keys 2 and 4 in "The Caveguard"
I mean, I could end the scenario easily, but I like to explore and would like to get the treasure ;)
eh, what comes here again?
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s1m0n
Posts: 50
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Location: Irdya

Re: After Eastern Invasion

Post by s1m0n »

Hello!

TL;DR - Campaign good, last scenario not so.

I now finished the campaign, and have a few things to say:

a) very cool campaign, fun to play and interesting (though on the longer side)

b) last scenario is meh. Not fun at all and ruined my experience with this campaign.
Spoiler:
Otherwise, cool campaign, well done!

Simon
eh, what comes here again?
Spannerbag
Posts: 65
Joined: December 18th, 2016, 6:14 pm

Re: After Eastern Invasion

Post by Spannerbag »

Hi s1m0n,

Thanks for the feedback, always appreciated (good, bad or indifferent :) )

s1m0n wrote: August 21st, 2020, 5:25 pm Hello!

TL;DR - Campaign good, last scenario not so.

I now finished the campaign, and have a few things to say:

a) very cool campaign, fun to play and interesting (though on the longer side)

b) last scenario is meh. Not fun at all and ruined my experience with this campaign.
Spoiler:
Otherwise, cool campaign, well done!

Simon
Yeah, by the time I'd got to coding the last few scenarios I was kinda losing the will to live and just wanted the bl**dy thing over and published.
I've done a few tweaks and tucks but first wanted a break from it then later have had a few unexpected demands on my time so haven't really done much by way of addressing the above (all valid) points.

Reply spoilered for readers who haven't played the later scenarios...
Spoiler:
If people are OK with it, I'm happy to make the changes and publish without testing?

Cheers!
--- Spannerbag
UMC Campaign: After EI
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
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Major_Swampy
Posts: 150
Joined: June 26th, 2019, 2:20 pm
Location: Indonesia

Re: After Eastern Invasion

Post by Major_Swampy »

Spannerbag wrote: October 9th, 2020, 11:56 am ...
Ah, welcome back from long absence, mate... :mrgreen:
Sorry for my english, I'm not english native.
Regards, Swampy.

(Already mastered the LotI as 4 times until the end, so wanna me to play it again!?)
Spannerbag
Posts: 65
Joined: December 18th, 2016, 6:14 pm

Re: After Eastern Invasion

Post by Spannerbag »

Hi again,
Sorry for not replying sooner - I am not often on this forum these days :( - busy with real-world stuff I cannot avoid.

I am working on another campaign (not as huge or tortuous as AfterEI) - about 40% completed so far.

Did start a looong spoiler list for AfterEI but have not had chance to do much recently.

Hope life is OK with you.
Major_Swampy wrote: October 9th, 2020, 12:48 pm Ah, welcome back from long absence, mate... :mrgreen:
Cheers!
-- Spannerbag
UMC Campaign: After EI
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
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egallager
Posts: 66
Joined: November 19th, 2020, 7:27 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire
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Re: After Eastern Invasion

Post by egallager »

I've been trying to play thru this but I gave up at the branching paths around Aitsward; it's rather annoying either way, whether you take the mushspore path or the rats path, and I'm not really sure how to edit the scenarios without ruining them entirely... it's been a fun campaign up until that point, though! I've enjoyed all the creative gimmicks and interesting uses of scripting. I'd even say it's even better than the original Eastern Invasion itself, even though I completed that one but not this one... Anyways, the edits I've been doing can be found here so far, even if they're not done yet: https://github.com/cooljeanius/wesnoth_ ... n_Invasion (notably, I haven't typed up a readme yet, which is something I normally only do after completing a campaign, which I haven't done here yet)
Wesnoth-related GitHub repos:
General mods collection, SotBEEE, AToTBWaTD, The Earth's Gut, A Little Adventure
Social media: Twitter: @cooljeanius, Steam: egallager, LinkedIn: Eric Gallager
Spannerbag
Posts: 65
Joined: December 18th, 2016, 6:14 pm

Re: After Eastern Invasion

Post by Spannerbag »

Hi egallager,

Thanks for the feedback, always appreciated whether good or bad.
egallager wrote: November 19th, 2020, 10:09 pm I've been trying to play thru this but I gave up at the branching paths around Aitsward; it's rather annoying either way, whether you take the mushspore path or the rats path, and I'm not really sure how to edit the scenarios without ruining them entirely... it's been a fun campaign up until that point, though! I've enjoyed all the creative gimmicks and interesting uses of scripting. I'd even say it's even better than the original Eastern Invasion itself, even though I completed that one but not this one... Anyways, the edits I've been doing can be found here so far, even if they're not done yet: https://github.com/cooljeanius/wesnoth_ ... n_Invasion (notably, I haven't typed up a readme yet, which is something I normally only do after completing a campaign, which I haven't done here yet)
I'd really like to know what it is in the gameplay that you found unsatisfactory? What I was trying to do was create a campaign with "replayability", that is with multiple paths through all of which (to a greater or lesser extent) affect the final scenario so that people might want to play it again but try a different path through (and if you thought Aitsward was annoying, it's probably a good thing you didn't make it to the final scenario :D ).
The whole point of all of this is to have fun. So if I can fix whatever it is that you didn't like I'll try and do so. I'd prefer to have your feedback rather than look through your code (mainly because I haven't looked at the code myself for months and I'd have to spend time working out what how the heck it worked then which bits were changed :roll: )

Unfortunately just now I'm not able to spend a lot of time on UMC projects but I do hope, eventually (probably not until well into next year sadly), to publish a new version with a few code updates and improved gameplay in scenario 25 (The Caveguard) plus very long AfterEI spoilers list. For the same reason I'm not able to check this thread as often as I'd like either so apologies if I take some time to reply. I'm happy to be PM'd as then I know I actually have a message waiting for my attention...

Anyway, please let me know what you didn't like and, if possible, how you'd like it fixed and I'll do my best to oblige!

Cheers,
-- Spannerbag
UMC Campaign: After EI
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
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egallager
Posts: 66
Joined: November 19th, 2020, 7:27 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire
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Re: After Eastern Invasion

Post by egallager »

Spannerbag wrote: November 23rd, 2020, 1:30 am Hi egallager,

Thanks for the feedback, always appreciated whether good or bad.
egallager wrote: November 19th, 2020, 10:09 pm I've been trying to play thru this but I gave up at the branching paths around Aitsward; it's rather annoying either way, whether you take the mushspore path or the rats path, and I'm not really sure how to edit the scenarios without ruining them entirely... it's been a fun campaign up until that point, though! I've enjoyed all the creative gimmicks and interesting uses of scripting. I'd even say it's even better than the original Eastern Invasion itself, even though I completed that one but not this one... Anyways, the edits I've been doing can be found here so far, even if they're not done yet: https://github.com/cooljeanius/wesnoth_ ... n_Invasion (notably, I haven't typed up a readme yet, which is something I normally only do after completing a campaign, which I haven't done here yet)
I'd really like to know what it is in the gameplay that you found unsatisfactory? What I was trying to do was create a campaign with "replayability", that is with multiple paths through all of which (to a greater or lesser extent) affect the final scenario so that people might want to play it again but try a different path through (and if you thought Aitsward was annoying, it's probably a good thing you didn't make it to the final scenario :D ).
The whole point of all of this is to have fun. So if I can fix whatever it is that you didn't like I'll try and do so. I'd prefer to have your feedback rather than look through your code (mainly because I haven't looked at the code myself for months and I'd have to spend time working out what how the heck it worked then which bits were changed :roll: )
I generated some diffs: https://github.com/cooljeanius/wesnoth_ ... sion/diffs
Spannerbag wrote: November 23rd, 2020, 1:30 am Unfortunately just now I'm not able to spend a lot of time on UMC projects but I do hope, eventually (probably not until well into next year sadly), to publish a new version with a few code updates and improved gameplay in scenario 25 (The Caveguard) plus very long AfterEI spoilers list. For the same reason I'm not able to check this thread as often as I'd like either so apologies if I take some time to reply. I'm happy to be PM'd as then I know I actually have a message waiting for my attention...

Anyway, please let me know what you didn't like and, if possible, how you'd like it fixed and I'll do my best to oblige!

Cheers,
-- Spannerbag
Also sorry if I came off overly critical; I really did like a lot of the campaign, it just got a bit difficult around Aitsward. Specifically, on the first path, it was just really annoying to have to turtle among all the mushspores, because it really restricted my movement, and even when I was able to lure the enemies into stepping on them, they were still stronger than me. Meanwhile, on the other path... actually, looking at the source for that one, I think I can think of ways to modify it myself anyways after all, so, never mind on that part! Anyways, thanks again for making this campaign!
Wesnoth-related GitHub repos:
General mods collection, SotBEEE, AToTBWaTD, The Earth's Gut, A Little Adventure
Social media: Twitter: @cooljeanius, Steam: egallager, LinkedIn: Eric Gallager
Spannerbag
Posts: 65
Joined: December 18th, 2016, 6:14 pm

Re: After Eastern Invasion

Post by Spannerbag »

egallager wrote: November 23rd, 2020, 10:33 pm I generated some diffs: https://github.com/cooljeanius/wesnoth_ ... sion/diffs

Also sorry if I came off overly critical; I really did like a lot of the campaign, it just got a bit difficult around Aitsward. Specifically, on the first path, it was just really annoying to have to turtle among all the mushspores, because it really restricted my movement, and even when I was able to lure the enemies into stepping on them, they were still stronger than me. Meanwhile, on the other path... actually, looking at the source for that one, I think I can think of ways to modify it myself anyways after all, so, never mind on that part! Anyways, thanks again for making this campaign!
Will take a peek at the diffs anyway - just curious to see what your ideas/thoughts are, thanks.

Perhaps you struggled because you didn't have (m)any poachers or advancements?
These do really well and thieves and their advancements are handy also. Without at least a few of those then yes, I guess it would be challenging...

IMHO I feel the second option (surrender) is more rewarding. When you played this branch (rats etc.) did you try:
Spoiler:
And, if you publish your changes, I look forward to trying out your take on things :D

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag
UMC Campaign: After EI
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
wschuyle
Posts: 3
Joined: December 18th, 2020, 12:42 am

Re: After Eastern Invasion

Post by wschuyle »

Great campaign and thanks for doing it. But how do you end the final scenario. I killed the main leader, then the visible Shamans (2 of them). I get there is supposed to be Shaman hiding, but sure do not make it easy. I have the whole map revealed, went through every tunnel (I think - lot of them), and occupied every village (95/95). Resorted to have my bats and dwarves go through all mountains we have not but no luck. Do I seriously have to move to exactly one non-village hex to find the guy? I am about ready to give up.

Or do I have bug and game will not end?

Last campaign is frankly a pain and not very interesting - Orcs were not numerous enough to really challenge and as another poster said end is mainly killing few orcs spawning and lots, lots of bats to get to the shamans. Overall fun until this last scenarios. Thanks for doing it!
Spannerbag
Posts: 65
Joined: December 18th, 2016, 6:14 pm

Re: After Eastern Invasion

Post by Spannerbag »

Hi wschuyle,

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply, feedback is always appreciated!

Yeah, I've had quite a lot of very, ah, mixed comment regarding the last scenario :)

First off, as it was my first ever campaign I didn't realise that the engine would grind so slowly on a big map. Trouble is I couldn't face a big redesign; by that time I wanted the damn thing done, published and my life back :)
I am, kinda, working on a spoilers list (there are a *lot* of these) and have part-completed a reworking of some of the later scenarios - but unfortunately for various boring (but unavoidable) reasons I can't devote the time and energy needed to do a major re-write just now, nor any time soon :(

Anyway, to address your post's issues and questions:
There are 3 shamans in hiding, each controls one of the daytime bat colonies. Destroying the shamans dissipates that colony (though the orc leader may redeploy the existing colonies if the midday shaman controller is killed and others remain).
You're right (and a few others have also asked this question) there is exactly one hex that reveals each hidden shaman (i.e. 3 separate hexes) in all.
There are hints (or so I thought :doh:) on the map but here are the exact co-ordinates:

Just looked at the code and (hopefully) the (x,y) you need to send a unit to are:
Spoiler:
Once you have killed all these shamans there will be other objectives, depending upon what other key objectives remain.

There is a long "tail" to this scenario that some found unsatisfying so again I probably need to address that part too :roll:

wschuyle wrote: December 18th, 2020, 12:50 am Great campaign and thanks for doing it. But how do you end the final scenario. I killed the main leader, then the visible Shamans (2 of them). I get there is supposed to be Shaman hiding, but sure do not make it easy. I have the whole map revealed, went through every tunnel (I think - lot of them), and occupied every village (95/95). Resorted to have my bats and dwarves go through all mountains we have not but no luck. Do I seriously have to move to exactly one non-village hex to find the guy? I am about ready to give up.

Or do I have bug and game will not end?

Last campaign is frankly a pain and not very interesting - Orcs were not numerous enough to really challenge and as another poster said end is mainly killing few orcs spawning and lots, lots of bats to get to the shamans. Overall fun until this last scenarios. Thanks for doing it!
For the last scenario I need to generally downsize it:
- reduce map size
- remove/redesign the "tail"
- make hidden stuff less, uh, hidden

This would make it more of a "traditional" last scenario: i.e. a big fight - probably no bad thing :)

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag
UMC Campaign: After EI
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
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egallager
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Re: After Eastern Invasion

Post by egallager »

I haven't actually gotten to the last scenario yet, but if it's going slowly, maybe consider the fast_ai Micro AI? https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Micro_AIs#Fast ... fast_ai.29
Apparently the simple_targeting AI key also affects game speed, too, so maybe try toggling that?
Wesnoth-related GitHub repos:
General mods collection, SotBEEE, AToTBWaTD, The Earth's Gut, A Little Adventure
Social media: Twitter: @cooljeanius, Steam: egallager, LinkedIn: Eric Gallager
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