Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.1 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Do you want this add-on on 1.14 NOW before After the Storm is ready?

Poll ended at June 14th, 2018, 5:59 am

Yes
7
32%
Hell YES
15
68%
Nah
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 22

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Sadaharu
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by Sadaharu » June 17th, 2018, 2:00 am

BTIsaac wrote:Shardia's meteor is an awesome weapon that can be found after the desert scenario in episode1, if you take the branch that involves not engaging the bandits. It's pretty complicated to get so i recommend reading the walkthru on the wiki. Same for void armour.
Oh, I never checked that route beyond the first scenario.
shadowm wrote:
June 16th, 2018, 5:49 am
Sadaharu wrote:
June 16th, 2018, 3:39 am
Where/what *are* Shardia's meteor and the void armour?
shadowm wrote:Galas needs an AMLA tree for IftU proper, especially given the level of difficulty of the last few fights if you somehow end up without anyone able to slow units besides Elynia. I’ll probably make it so any advancements and items he has in IftU are carried over to AtS, but Elynia is a different case.
Nobody with ‘slow’ attacks besides Elynia? Given that it's an Elvish army I found that the best way to do it was to include two Shydes with the quick-resilient traits. Oh, and one of them had arcane ranged attacks (was that Shardia's meteor?).
I usually go for either this or resilient+dextrous. But the problem with optional non-hero units is that a first-time player is likely to lose them and, without the power of hindsight, wind up in a situation where Elynia is the only unit able to slow people.
I only lost my Shydes at the very end and, since
Spoiler:
I didn't care that much for the loss of them.
shadowm wrote:
Sadaharu wrote:
June 16th, 2018, 3:39 am
shadowm wrote:
Spoiler:
Can't Elynia in AtS inherit any upgrades she has gained in IftU, just as the characters in Bad Moon Rising do from one episode to another or, indeed, as she does from Ep. 1 to Ep. 2 of IftU?
That is technically possible, but unless the AMLA tree for AtS ends up being a superset of the IftU tree (which is possible from a gameplay perspective, but I have to consider the plot ramifications very carefully) it would result in a hair ball of code full of special cases that wouldn’t be transparent to the player at all.
Oh, well, since it's the experience from only one scenario, unless I want to specifically send her to kill almost everybody it will be negligible (at best, ONE AMLA)

And speaking about ‘technically’ possible, IftU II is not marked as a completed campaign because I started it from the menu at the end of IftU I rather than starting it from the Campaign option in the game's main menu. Does the same happedn with the latest version? I won't be upgrading BfW to 1.14 until the semester is officially over.
shadowm wrote:Regarding Shardia’s Meteor, I honestly don’t find it that useful in the long term, although you people and nemaara seem to disagree so I guess I must be wrong somehow. 🤔

The void armour has a more complicated story but the bottomline is that it became nigh-unobtainable in Reconstruction (v2.0 release candidates and later) because I forgot it existed.
Well, I won the campaign without either, but on Medium difficulty. Next time i might try it on hard but taking the alternate route after the desert. :)

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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by shadowm » June 17th, 2018, 3:57 am

Sadaharu wrote:
June 17th, 2018, 2:00 am
And speaking about ‘technically’ possible, IftU II is not marked as a completed campaign because I started it from the menu at the end of IftU I rather than starting it from the Campaign option in the game's main menu. Does the same happedn with the latest version? I won't be upgrading BfW to 1.14 until the semester is officially over.
Yes. It’s a Wesnoth limitation.

It is tempting to either remove the second menu entry or store the final E1 state and send the player back to the main menu and force them to resume E2 from there instead so people won’t keep reporting this bug I can’t fix, to be honest.
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Sadaharu
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by Sadaharu » June 17th, 2018, 4:04 am

As long as players can keep the XP gained for their units in the first part of IftU, then it shouldn't be a problem.

I like to play in character, so a button that reads ‘go to Ep. II’ helps give it a sense of continuity, but for players with 100% completion syndrome (and a beleaguered game creator who keeps having to answer the same thing every time) then it might be better if it was removed. *shrugs helplessly*

In any case, at least for me, it's a bit of a minor detail.

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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by Sudipta » June 17th, 2018, 5:33 am

Konrad2 wrote:
June 16th, 2018, 11:53 am
Does like anyone have any idea for:
- possible Galas AMLAs (or the kind of unit type that levels with different AMLAs (like Kaleh/Nym))
- possible Elynia AMLAs
Spoiler:
- possible Mal Keshar AMLAs

Who knows. Maybe we can throw together working ideas very fast that only need some adjustments or smth. xD
Wouldn't giving Mal Keshar AMLA's just outright break the campaign :lol: And Galas is not weak himself, though certainly not as mighty as his companions. Giving him various items makes him a lot better, and leadership is a great ability from the start until the assault on the Chaos empire capital. I personally feel Galas should get some AMLA's (maybe like Kaleh's tree) but any Galas AMLA's would have to be carefully thought of.

What i think would be really awesome is if some of the non hero units got AMLA's as well. Now that would be spectacular. Since Quality matters more than quantity and u end up using the same bunch of veterans for most of the scenarios, giving them even slight AMLA boosts (such as damage+1, resist +10%, HP+5) would be wickedly cool. Everyone talks about how badass Mal Keshar and Elynia is (i'm one of them), but i think the elvish Shyde who slowed 50+ bosses, demons and chaos army leaders, or the spectre who slew 500 drones single-handedly is the real hero of the campaign. Galas wouldn't have gone far without those Shydes and Spectres. :eng:
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by BTIsaac » June 17th, 2018, 2:54 pm

shadowm wrote:
June 17th, 2018, 3:57 am
It is tempting to either remove the second menu entry or store the final E1 state and send the player back to the main menu and force them to resume E2 from there instead so people won’t keep reporting this bug I can’t fix, to be honest.
Wouldn't it make more sense to just merge the two episodes?

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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by eight_eyes » June 17th, 2018, 3:23 pm

Sudipta wrote:Wouldn't giving Mal Keshar AMLA's just outright break the campaign :lol:
Mal Keshar is ancient. It's just my opinion, but I don't think giving him AMLAs would make too much sense with the lore/character background.
Sudipta wrote:What i think would be really awesome is if some of the non hero units got AMLA's as well.
Well... :hmm:
Spoiler:
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by ForestDragon » June 17th, 2018, 3:27 pm

eight_eyes wrote:
June 17th, 2018, 3:23 pm
Spoiler:
How about a +5 max hp AMLA for shydes? After all the +3 max hp bonus benifits spectres more than shydes (due to the high physical resistances), and shydes are slightly harder to AMLA.
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by eight_eyes » June 17th, 2018, 4:40 pm

To be honest I don't think that would make too much of a difference, as shydes are definitely harder to AMLA and it would make little difference (2/4/6 extra HP?). They aren't likely to AMLA more than two times, three time is the extreme.
Spoiler:
Last edited by eight_eyes on June 20th, 2018, 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by shadowm » June 18th, 2018, 5:50 am

The instructions for translators are up.

https://github.com/project-ethea/Ethea-i18n/wiki

Hopefully this makes at least some amount of sense to all prospective translators. I tried to not be too technical.

EDIT: Also, for the record, yes, you can start translating After the Storm even before it’s released on the add-ons server.
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Sadaharu
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by Sadaharu » June 19th, 2018, 1:00 am

BTISaac wrote:Wouldn't it make more sense to just merge the two episodes?
An elegant solution.
eight_eyes wrote:To be honest I don't think that would make too much of a difference, as shydes are definitely harder to AMLA and it would make little difference (2/4/6 extra HP?). They aren't likely to AMLA more than two times, three time is the extreme.
Not when you have a Shyde with Arcane-type ranged attacks (thorns with 70% accuracy or ensnare which always slows). *grins evilly*

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Re: Invasion from the Unknown [Wesnoth 1.12 + experimental 1.14 version]

Post by shadowm » June 24th, 2018, 4:39 am

shadowm wrote:
June 9th, 2018, 3:21 am
Zhou wrote:
June 9th, 2018, 12:51 am
The volume of the ambient camp fire (in 1+2) and the cave sounds in later scenarios resets every time you load one of those scenarios. Changing the sound effect volume fixes it, but it's still kinda annoying to have to do that every time you load into a new scenario. This might be a bug with the game itself though and I don't really know any other campaigns that uses that type of ambient sound, so I'm not really sure how to test that further
Yeah, this is a bug in the game I’m afraid (I can’t control the volume of sound sources myself). I’ll see if I can fix it for 1.14.3, but otherwise it’s probably going to end up postponed until 1.14.4 since I believe I’m pretty much the only mainline developer who is aware of the existence of sound sources right now.
Reported to the Wesnoth bug tracker (issue #3280) and the SDL devs. The fix will be in 1.14.4 whenever it is released. Thanks for the report! This is one of those things one doesn’t really notice until someone else points it out, and it has probably been around for at least 8 years.
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by shadowm » July 17th, 2018, 7:14 am

Okay, let’s try this again:

Code: Select all

* Units:
  * Revised Elvish Avatar (Anlindë)'s AMLA tree:
    * XP increase for all AMLAs is 15%.
  * Revised Lady of Light (Elynia)'s AMLA tree:
    * XP increase for all AMLAs is 15%.
    * Base XP decreased from 90 XP to 70 XP.
    * Strength I: HP +4, melee dmg +1
    * Strength II: HP +4, melee str +1
    * Strength III: HP +5
    * Strength IV: HP +5, melee dmg +1
    * Strength V: HP +5
    * Focus I: faerie fire dmg +1, requires Strength I
    * Focus II: faerie fire str +1, requires Strength III
    * Focus III: ensnare str +1, requires Strength IV
    * Shielding I: arcane res +10%, requires Focus I
    * Shielding II: arcane res +10%, impact res +10%, requires Focus II
    * Shielding III: arcane res +10%, cold res +10%, requires Strength IV
    * Thorns I: new attack - ranged pierce magical+drain 10-2
    * Thorns II: thorns str +1
    * Thorns III: thorns dmg +2
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by ForestDragon » July 17th, 2018, 7:25 am

It is certainly better than the previous AMLA tree, but I'd like to propose a slight revision of the strength upgrade:
Strength I: same as in your post
Strength II: still +1 melee strike, but only +2 damage (after all, an extra strike is a pretty big deal)
Strength III: I think it would be better as +6 hp, given that it doesn't give any melee bonuses
Strength IV: same as in your post
Strength V: Feels too similar to Strength III, and a bit underpowered as a final upgrade (it is inferior to the previous upgrade in the tree, which isn't exactly a good design idea). Here are a few variants of how it can be changes:

a) making it give 7 hp (to be like a superior version of Strength III)
b) making it give +2 melee damage (not sure if it might be a bit overpowered, with all the previous upgrades), but only 2 more hp
c) maybe something fancy, like the stun special from UtbS

The rest look fine.
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by shadowm » July 17th, 2018, 7:34 am

ForestDragon wrote:
July 17th, 2018, 7:25 am
Strength II: still +1 melee strike, but only +2 damage (after all, an extra strike is a pretty big deal)
It doesn’t increase melee damage in this version of the tree, only HP (by 4).

ForestDragon wrote:
July 17th, 2018, 7:25 am
Strength V: Feels too similar to Strength III, and a bit underpowered as a final upgrade (it is inferior to the previous upgrade in the tree, which isn't exactly a good design idea). Here are a few variants of how it can be changes:

a) making it give 7 hp (to be like a superior version of Strength III)
b) making it give +2 melee damage (not sure if it might be a bit overpowered, with all the previous upgrades), but only 2 more hp
c) maybe something fancy, like the stun special from UtbS
I really don’t feel like the fact that it’s identical to Strength III is a bad thing per se. It’s just not particularly worth it — but that’s also a good reason for the player to save it until the end.

I’m ruling out c (Elynia isn’t a mele-focused unit, so giving her melee-based specials would be weird) and a (6 HP would be okay, but 7 seems excessive) and b (see the justification for c and bear in mind that at this stage she would have 8-4 impact melee). I’m more inclined to cut it out entirely and increase her HP increment for Strength IV to 7 if people really believe that it’s out of place.
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by ForestDragon » July 17th, 2018, 7:38 am

shadowm wrote:
July 17th, 2018, 7:34 am
It doesn’t increase melee damage in this version of the tree, only HP (by 4).
My bad, I meant HP instead of damage.
shadowm wrote:
July 17th, 2018, 7:34 am
I’m ruling out c (Elynia isn’t a mele-focused unit, so giving her melee-based specials would be weird) and a (6 HP would be okay, but 7 seems excessive) and b (see the justification for c and bear in mind that at this stage she would have 8-4 impact melee). I’m more inclined to cut it out entirely and increase her HP increment for Strength IV to 7 if people really believe that it’s out of place.
Good point.
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